Aliens crippling infected.

[coroneljones]

Voldirs has a point. Babysiting is extremely boring and frustrating and "ruins gameplay" for aliens..

Well drones and sentinels are ment to babysit hosts
Thats the sentinels main role,it isnt ranged support,its a guard.

[Mitchs98]

I see nothing against aliens ripping host's limbs off if they got out of the nest at least once. If such thing didnt happens, aliens have no reason to harm the host.

Also, I got one situation like 2 weeks ago. I was a drone guarding 4 hosts alone. They constantly got out of the nest to make some shitty things like like cutting through the doors, unbuckling other hosts, shooting me. After some time, one host bursted, other one blown his head off, 2 remained. I babysited them for like 20 minutes, them always doing shit and near killing me. I evolved to carrier at last and went on the frontline, leaving those hosts in paincrit. I was frustrated by this long-time babysiting, so I understand why players just toss host's limbs on spot.

See, this is an example of what I'm talking about. The game doesn't just exsist for aliens only to enjoy. You signed up for guard duty when you picked drone/sentinel, you follow through. Not get tired of it and kill people/slash them just enough they can do literally nothing.

It is literally a sentinel and/or drones job to guard the hive/build the hive and watch hosts, as well as guard the Queen. Not slash already infected/hosts that are infected before the timer ticks down, arms off/into pain crit.

If the rule is no harm period, it honestly needs to be enforced more strictly. This is just as bad as chloroforming aliens. You're not meant to escape the nest, sure. Doesn't mean marine players don't enjoy actually trying.

Perhaps bring back the suicide verb for infected marines in pain crit to encourage aliens to NOT SLASH just because they can and its easier.

[Voldirs]

There isn't any good option for aliens to stop infected ones from breaking havoc in the hive. Disarm? Hah, it lasts for like one second. Grab? It just doesn't work. Any way to somehow incapitate the victim other than slashing shit out of it? Nope.

Only facehuggers incapitate hosts for a good while, thats why there are so used for hug-and-slash

Just imagine, really big and strong bug can't keep puny human immobile.

[Mitchs98]

There isn't any good option for aliens to stop infected ones from breaking havoc in the hive. Disarm? Hah, it lasts for like one second. Grab? It just doesn't work. Any way to somehow incapitate the victim other than slashing shit out of it? Nope.

Only facehuggers incapitate hosts for a good while, thats why there are so used for hug-and-slash

Just imagine, really big and strong bug can't keep puny human immobile.

Tackling actually does last longer than one second. Annd..it's not that hard to keep marines nested provided you have enclosed nests and not an open field. I've been confined to a nest the entire time until bursting numerous times without being slashed. The reasons stated above are honestly just excuses to facilitate the fact that alien players simply want to make the game as easy as possible for them and remove fun from the marines.

Marines already can't carry 90 guns anymore, and you have full reign to slash them into submission should they harm you after capture. It's really not that hard to completely dis-arm a marine of spare weapons without harming them either, it just takes a bit of time, time you SHOULD be spending in the hive doing your job anyway.

[Gelonvia]

Tackling actually does last longer than one second. Annd..it's not that hard to keep marines nested provided you have enclosed nests and not an open field. I've been confined to a nest the entire time until bursting numerous times without being slashed. The reasons stated above are honestly just excuses to facilitate the fact that alien players simply want to make the game as easy as possible for them and remove fun from the marines.

Marines already can't carry 90 guns anymore, and you have full reign to slash them into submission should they harm you after capture. It's really not that hard to completely dis-arm a marine of spare weapons without harming them either, it just takes a bit of time, time you SHOULD be spending in the hive doing your job anyway.

I literally didn't need to say anything, you said it all for me.

Easy to keep people nested? Check.
No reason to attack infected? Check.
This is just the excuse strained from laziness?
Double Check.

[Gelonvia]

Well drones and sentinels are ment to babysit hosts
Thats the sentinels main role,it isnt ranged support,its a guard.

It literally says when you are deciding when to choose your type what each castes RP duties are. The fact the Admins don't jump people who leave the hive when that's their tasked duties is simply their unwavering leniency.

[UnknownMurder]

Right. I'm just going to be neutral on this debate.
I just don't think the aliens should be killing/attacking/crippling. It damages the host and decreases the chestburster rate. Because you know what? When you slash them, their limbs comes off. Then, guess what? They bleed to death, and you just killed your sister inside the host.

As for the Marines, it's a strategy to get themselves killed. To provoke the aliens to slashing them so they can ensure there will never be an alien popping out of their stomach.

[Inaf]

It literally says when you are deciding when to choose your type what each castes RP duties are. The fact the Admins don't jump people who leave the hive when that's their tasked duties is simply their unwavering leniency.

If you were staff member, I would think it is a hidden threat. "Admins just let you violate the rules just because they can" - sounds VERY bossy.

[Gelonvia]

If that's your assumption then that's been made under compromised emotions due to being quickly growing defensive on the subject. If that isn't it then it defers to the other option of plain out manipulation to change the topic at hand (Not that it isn't possibly both.) Either way I say "Have fun with that."

[Gelonvia]

Oh, and you already have a verdict on this topic by Apops no harming infected rule. He deeply thinks every action out before taking action.

[Inaf]

Oh, and you already have a verdict on this topic by Apops no harming infected rule. He deeply thinks every action out before taking action.

Rule says:
"Do not Kill infected infected hosts (once they have the icon) if they are defenseless or nested."
1. Harming is not killing.
2. Defence of the Hive is always prior to hosts surviving
3. There are already debates on this rule, because in different situations it spoils rounds. Like http://cm-ss13.com/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=4145.
4. Babysitting is really boring and it is kinda hard to make people do boring things. You will need a really good excuse to convince them.

Thus, I still find harming hosts in nests acceptable. Of course, if alien knows that host can bleed to death before chestbursting.

[Toroic]

Tackling actually does last longer than one second. Annd..it's not that hard to keep marines nested provided you have enclosed nests and not an open field. I've been confined to a nest the entire time until bursting numerous times without being slashed. The reasons stated above are honestly just excuses to facilitate the fact that alien players simply want to make the game as easy as possible for them and remove fun from the marines.

Marines already can't carry 90 guns anymore, and you have full reign to slash them into submission should they harm you after capture. It's really not that hard to completely dis-arm a marine of spare weapons without harming them either, it just takes a bit of time, time you SHOULD be spending in the hive doing your job anyway.

Actually, you're both wrong, about a lot of things.

1) Tackle success chance and duration is dependent on which caste you are.

Drone Tackle 2-3 Chance 40%
Carrier Tackle 1-3 Chance 60%
Hivelord - Tackle 2-4 Chance is 70%
Hunter - Tackle 3-5 Chance is 80%
Praetorian tackle 3-5 Chance is 70%
Ravager tackle is 4-7 Chance is 90%
Runner is 1-3 Tackle chance is 70%
Spitter is 2-3 Chance is 75%
Queen is 3-7 Chance is 90%

This is of course assuming a tackle is successful, which every tackle is not. It doesn't last only 1 second except for an unlucky runner, but even spamming tackle it can be difficult for a drone to keep a marine down for long enough to drag them into a nest.

2) While a marine doesn't carry 90 guns, they can easily have one for each time they escape a nest.

3) Drones should not be on babysit duty, because the nests should not be where building is happening. They should be building a base, reinforcing a base, or spreading weeds.

4) Sentinels/Spitters/Praetorians have their primary job being to protect the queen, babysitting hosts is secondary.


Where the problem comes in is that some people think marines should have significant gameplay when brought back to a nest. While this is a good idea, it just won't happen in most cases. Good alien players don't get themselves killed to save a host or two. Most games end with aliens having a bunch of unpopped hosts when they take the dropship, and bad xeno players don't switch to the "hug and kill" strategy fast enough.

I've played and won as queen multiple times, and I've left slashing on the majority of the round and never had a problem with a lack of hosts. You start out with far more hosts than you'll probably ever have on the xeno team, and a trickle of unrobust marines should replace your losses. Aliens are quick to bitch out other aliens for slashing easy hosts to death, and on the Sulco some dumbass marine is probably going to breach, and if they don't you'll have plenty more hosts to snatch.

Against good xeno players, you aren't getting free and you aren't causing too much trouble unless you're talking on comms calling out where every xeno is in a base right behind the front lines. If you use explosives you'll probably get ripped apart unless you're close to popping anyway. Marines don't like checkerboard nests, but good aliens are going to build them that way every time.


I don't like pre-crippling hosts, and I don't do it myself because either it's unnecessary because the marine isn't going anywhere, or it's unnecessary because I'm just going to kill the marine.

From a practical standpoint, hosts don't need legs or arms to provide their primary function: to be a meat cocoon for a larvae. I don't support a rule against xenos using every reasonable technique against marines. If it is desirable to make a strategy impossible, do it through game mechanics. If I start as queen, I avoid making a base outside the caves because orbital barrages hurt like hell. Given that you can't plant weeds on grass, I tend to have just a few options for forward bases besides the marine FOB. If the Sulco gets breached I don't bother encouraging xenos to take even easy hosts and make sure that full murderboning is the primary strategy.


Basically, marines don't have options once nested against good xenos, so it doesn't end up changing much if you get pre-slashed or not. If we're going to change things, do it through mechanics not OOC rules.

Oh, and you already have a verdict on this topic by Apops no harming infected rule. He deeply thinks every action out before taking action.

Given how trivially easy it is to find the actual rules, there's really no excuse to misquote Apops. Inaf gave a good breakdown about how there is absolutely nothing preventing crippling marines before or after infecting.

[ChickenShizNit8]

I can say first hand that this is indeed bullshit that NEEDS to be fixed!

I come from both sides of the community, ayylium AND marines, and I hate it both ways. When I am an alien and see Sentinels running around outside the Hive I tell them to GET THE FUCK BACK. And when I am a marine? PFFT. I have this happen to me on a daily basis. I will be captured, then break out, punch an alien or stab a wall and then "LEL LEL SCRATCH LEL SCRATCH DED GIT GUD"

This is not an acceptable way to play guys! There are REASONS why the alien castes are designated! What would happen if we, for say, saw a Marine Engineer doing SURGERY, huh? Banned! Sentinel goes outside the hive with all the OTHER ones to hunt whilst the poor Queen and Runners are stuck putting up with annoying hosts? Nothing.

This NEEDS to be fixed, ASAP.

[Gelonvia]

I can say first hand that this is indeed bullshit that NEEDS to be fixed!

I come from both sides of the community, ayylium AND marines, and I hate it both ways. When I am an alien and see Sentinels running around outside the Hive I tell them to GET THE FUCK BACK. And when I am a marine? PFFT. I have this happen to me on a daily basis. I will be captured, then break out, punch an alien or stab a wall and then "LEL LEL SCRATCH LEL SCRATCH DED GIT GUD"

This is not an acceptable way to play guys! There are REASONS why the alien castes are designated! What would happen if we, for say, saw a Marine Engineer doing SURGERY, huh? Banned! Sentinel goes outside the hive with all the OTHER ones to hunt whilst the poor Queen and Runners are stuck putting up with annoying hosts? Nothing.

This NEEDS to be fixed, ASAP.

Agreed, the way of thinking needs to be fixed.

Or just reading the alien description before you play it, the one the entire creators put down for Players to refer to, which is apparently ignored entirely. So yeah, pointing back to what the very experienced staff member Coroneljones said which you can read above.

And it's exactly as it's said. It's how it is, gotta accept it Toran, the decision was already made.

[Toroic]

Agreed, the way of thinking needs to be fixed.

Or just reading the alien description before you play it, the one the entire creators put down for Players to refer to, which is apparently ignored entirely. So yeah, pointing back to what the very experienced staff member Coroneljones said which you can read above.

And it's exactly as it's said. It's how it is, gotta accept it Toran, the decision was already made.

I'm not sure if you're referring to me or not, but here is a complete copy of the rules specific to xenos:

Xeno-specific rules:

You are a Xenomorph
Act like one. Your are not a pet or best friends with the marines (except as part of a deception).
Talk like one. It is fine to use words like "medbay" and "shuttle". You can also replace "shuttle" with "metal bird" if you wish. Hivemind is the English translation of a Xeno's thoughts. However, keep it formal and realistic. No talking like a gangster.
You have no free will. Your will is that of the Queen. OBEY HER ORDERS. If the queen contacts admins about you disobeying her, you WILL be punished.
Grow the hive. Your goal is to expand the hive at ALL costs.
Do not Kill infected infected hosts (once they have the icon) if they are defenseless or nested. It's counter-productive to your cause of spreading. If a marine escapes the nest and uses a weapon to resist, THEN you may kill them, but you should try to tackle and nest them. Remember: The most hosts you get, the more aliens you get.
Obey the orders of superior castes, with the Queen overriding all other orders:
Tier 1 (lowest): Larva
Tier 2: Runner, Drones, Sentinels
Tier 3: Warrior, Carrier, Spitter
Tier 4: Ravager, Praetorian, Hivelord
Tier 5 (highest): Queen
[REDACTED]: Empress???
No pulling/pushing objects for cover - Do NOT pull or push objects to use them as bullet cover while moving. You can, however, pull objects into a position and leave them.
No Hugger Stacking - Hugger stacking is defined by the following, and results in ALL huggers being deleted (all of them, everywhere):
> 2 facehuggers on a tile
> 3 facehuggers in a locker
NOTE: An egg counts as a "facehugger". So, 1 hugger and an egg is legal, 2 huggers and an egg is not.
Nest Spam - The act of unbuckling a marine from a nest and then immediately buckling them back into it, resetting the marine's Resist timer. Doing this will get you a minimum 24-hour ban.
Exception: If the marine is in IMMEDIATE DANGER, such as from a room with no oxygen, and he needs to be moved to a more secure nest.
No collecting marine gear with lockers - Even if it's "to melt the gear in a group" or just to "store it". It's a no-no, it causes lagspikes and isn't very "alien" to use human technology like that. Melt the stuff individually.

There is no rule that hosts can't be harmed or crippled, only that they should not be killed if they are infected and nested. If they break out and use a weapon it is allowed to kill them.

There is no rule that sentinels cannot leave the hive. Some queens make that rule, I personally do not. One of the rules is, however, to obey the queen completely. So the queen sets the policy, and you'd better believe an alien caught violating a queen's rule is going to be ahelped and punished.

To some degree, it is every xeno's job to help acquire, infect, nest, and re-nest hosts. I've taken down marines as a drone, and based on the numbers, Ravagers make excellent nest guards, arguably better than sentinels or spitters. Is a ravager not "allowed" to guard the nests?

In this thread you have repeatedly failed to make any salient points nor successfully referred to what the actual rules are. You are of course free to continue to share your opinion, but I'm having difficulty taking you seriously on this topic.

[ChickenShizNit8]

"Do not Kill infected infected hosts (once they have the icon) if they are defenseless or nested. It's counter-productive to your cause of spreading. If a marine escapes the nest and uses a weapon to resist, THEN you may kill them, but you should try to tackle and nest them. Remember: The most hosts you get, the more aliens you get."


THIS right here. Okay, so it's not IN the rules not to kill hosts, but RP wise you fucking shouldn't!

The facehugger lays an egg inside the marine to hatch into a larva and MATURE into one of your SISTERS.

That would be like cutting open your own mothers womb and killing your sibling, and that's just...

Look, it's brutal I know, I ain't got no chill as morons on twitter would say, but really, WHY would you kill something that holds a future offspring of your own kind? You are PRETTY MUCH killing another Xeno.

Also in the rules it says "but you should try to tackle and nest them"

YES, it may say TRY, but as a player of the community of great people you should STRIVE to make it fun for yourself and others, not kill the marine because they stood up and stabbed you thus offending thy honor slash slash ded lel git gud.

[Mitchs98]

"Do not Kill infected infected hosts (once they have the icon) if they are defenseless or nested. It's counter-productive to your cause of spreading. If a marine escapes the nest and uses a weapon to resist, THEN you may kill them, but you should try to tackle and nest them. Remember: The most hosts you get, the more aliens you get."


THIS right here. Okay, so it's not IN the rules not to kill hosts, but RP wise you fucking shouldn't!

The facehugger lays an egg inside the marine to hatch into a larva and MATURE into one of your SISTERS.

That would be like cutting open your own mothers womb and killing your sibling, and that's just...

Look, it's brutal I know, I ain't got no chill as morons on twitter would say, but really, WHY would you kill something that holds a future offspring of your own kind? You are PRETTY MUCH killing another Xeno.

Also in the rules it says "but you should try to tackle and nest them"

YES, it may say TRY, but as a player of the community of great people you should STRIVE to make it fun for yourself and others, not kill the marine because they stood up and stabbed you thus offending thy honor slash slash ded lel git gud.

Literally all of this. So, very very much of this.

[Toroic]

"Do not Kill infected infected hosts (once they have the icon) if they are defenseless or nested. It's counter-productive to your cause of spreading. If a marine escapes the nest and uses a weapon to resist, THEN you may kill them, but you should try to tackle and nest them. Remember: The most hosts you get, the more aliens you get."


THIS right here. Okay, so it's not IN the rules not to kill hosts, but RP wise you fucking shouldn't!

The facehugger lays an egg inside the marine to hatch into a larva and MATURE into one of your SISTERS.

That would be like cutting open your own mothers womb and killing your sibling, and that's just...

Look, it's brutal I know, I ain't got no chill as morons on twitter would say, but really, WHY would you kill something that holds a future offspring of your own kind? You are PRETTY MUCH killing another Xeno.

Also in the rules it says "but you should try to tackle and nest them"

YES, it may say TRY, but as a player of the community of great people you should STRIVE to make it fun for yourself and others, not kill the marine because they stood up and stabbed you thus offending thy honor slash slash ded lel git gud.

The rules are clear, so I'm not going to retread why you're wrong from a rules perspective.

From a RP perspective, every xeno is expendible, and does not have any value unless the queen values them. They also don't have free will, and are slaves to the hivemind.

Long story short: Larve are RP-wise completely expendible. Applying familial ties is impressing our species' traits on a species that doesn't share them.

[ChickenShizNit8]

"Grow the hive"

This is the PRIME directive of the aliens, to get more numbers and defend hive. While they may be expendable, they are still needed, RP wise and Lore wise.

[Voldirs]

The facehugger lays an egg inside the marine to hatch into a larva and MATURE into one of your SISTERS.

That would be like cutting open your own mothers womb and killing your sibling, and that's just...

Look, it's brutal I know, I ain't got no chill as morons on twitter would say, but really, WHY would you kill something that holds a future offspring of your own kind? You are PRETTY MUCH killing another Xeno.

Dont try to compare alium-bugs and civilized humans.
In nature animals may kill their offspring for some reasons, so your argument is totally invalid.

[ChickenShizNit8]

There's nature, then there's a tight-nit group of aliens with no free-will except what their monarch says.

I don't see many deer ruled under queens, do you?

The whole POINT of the aliens are to spread as far and fast as they can, and killing your young is against what your SPECIES AS A WHOLE is made for.

[Voldirs]

There's nature, then there's a tight-nit group of aliens with no free-will except what their monarch says.

I don't see many deer ruled under queens, do you?

The whole POINT of the aliens are to spread as far and fast as they can, and killing your young is against what your SPECIES AS A WHOLE is made for.

Every species in nature is to spread as much as possible.
I agree, that aliens get no free-will and that's up to queen to decide whether to kill host or not.
But that doesn't mean that aliens can't kill or harm infected hosts at all.

[ChickenShizNit8]

Yes, it does...

The Aliens SOLE PURPOSE, the thing that DRIVES THEM besides the Queen. is to INFEST

Killing an infected host is SLOWING that process, and in other terms, being a massive dick to that marine you just murdered and stuck out of the round.

[Toroic]

Yes, it does...

The Aliens SOLE PURPOSE, the thing that DRIVES THEM besides the Queen. is to INFEST

Killing an infected host is SLOWING that process, and in other terms, being a massive dick to that marine you just murdered and stuck out of the round.

You are 100% right that xenos would prefer RP-wise not to kill infected hosts.

That is why aliens cripple marines instead, it makes perfect RP sense, and isn't against the rules.

Pre-crippling also makes rp sense and isn't against the rules, so why does this thread exist?

[ChickenShizNit8]

I feel like this WHOLE THREAD needs to come down to one single fix-

Either make Xenos do more damage, or make Marines bleed out faster.

OR, do as I've brought up a few times, let us succumb in ANY type of Crit