A question about marriage...

[Gelonvia]

You used your own RP as an example! I was saying that you're generally a dramatic person, so you tend to RP in a more detailed manor than most people. You are literally a rarity in CM. I barely see anyone RP the way you do, meaning that RP probably has more meaning to you than it does to me or some other people. It's a compliment more than anything.

For one thing, joshuu is very overwhelmed. He does a fantastic job, but he isn't a one man army. Just because he's the best damn spriter in the world doesn't mean he can do everything without any help.

What I was trying to provide was a solution to the problem that would appease both sides of the coin. The new game mode that apop will be introducing in the future will be a prime space for actual RP to occur because it's a very RP oriented gamemode. What I was suggesting was that we simply disallow marriage for the moment, but try re-allowing it once that game mode is properly out.

Marriage is something that mostly is currently used to justify meta-friending which causes more problems that could be prevented by simply not allowing it. Right now, marriage has no place in CM. It doesn't make sense thematically, and really doesn't add much to most peoples games. In your case as a person that focuses very heavily on RP, it has the potential to make the game a lot more enjoyable and fun. Most people who visit CM though are not looking for RP, they're simply people trying to play as tacticool spacemen who sometimes have cool cinematic RP moments here and there because that's what the server encourages. Doing better RP is fine, but it's not the priority of the server.

If you'd had properly read my opinion piece that I gave earlier, you'd know that I simply do not like the concept of marriage in game anyway. I feel that it's just abused by people being meta. I have not ignored anyone's opinion, I just do not agree with them because I find in game marriages silly to begin with. I did not ignore the dude's opinion when I wrote "TLDR." As I said, I was in school and was skimming through topics and didn't feel like reading every single paragraph that people posted. Also it blatantly said in bright red text "rant" on the top of it (appreciate that btw) which made me immediately think "oh I should scroll past this because it's going to be long, I'll read it at some other time."

Honestly, once CM has the newer more RP focused game mode implemented it'll actually be very good to let marriage be a thing! It could lead to some actually touching scenes being played out. The current gamemode does not allow for very touching scenes to play out at all, it's too combat oriented for that. Marriage, at the moment, is mostly used to justify rule breaking things that are just annoying to deal with as staff, and annoying to have happen to you as a fellow player. It has no place in CM at the moment.

Then you immediately admit that RP does influence and help them its just being ignored entirely for the entire sake of the side of arguement. As it shows right now? Clearly people do find that the Role Play of Marriage is entirely fine, the Majority agree's that its not a problem, some people come here to play "Spessmen" and are immediately disappointed, sofar saying the game mode is "Touchy" and doesn't support it is a personal opinion (That also to point out, what I say is also technically a personal opinion in certain areas, he's not the only ones people, takes two to tango.) when sofar throughout all of CM it has been and continues to support through gameplay the server, if there's is an issue with lack of staff then get to hiring, leave it out of this discussion where it has absolutely no place to be in, saying we don't have enough people and that effects marriage is literally throwing a Stone at a window and expecting the Stone to Stick to the Glass, it just makes no sense and has no place here.

Finally I see lots of people Role Playing it out, saying it doesn't happen, and people don't like it when sofar NOONE has even asked if they do, and noone has literally said, "Lets sit down and observed those who are married before we make a decision to Ban those who try to RP Marriage." is by far an act of sheer laziness of actually properly handling the issue. And laziness kills servers.

[Gelonvia]

Also, people I was wrong about the last one, the High RP reply was NOT who I thought it was sadly.

[apophis775]

It's not an issue of staff numbers, it's an issue that staff get burned out when dealing with bullshit. There's a difference between griefing and bullshit. Bullshit is situations where it's IC dickery or Meta-friendedness that's causing drama.


Also, whoever is telling people I'm making marriages illegal, please stop. I keep getting messages across several platforms, when I never said I'm making it illegal. It's just getting annoying to be doing something and my phone sudden goes off with skype messages saying "I heard you are making marriages illegal, What the fuck?". Especially since, the people who have messaged me, didn't even know about this topic. There is not final determination yet.

[Lostmixup]

Then you immediately admit that RP does influence and help them its just being ignored entirely for the entire sake of the side of arguement. As it shows right now? Clearly people do find that the Role Play of Marriage is entirely fine, the Majority agree's that its not a problem, some people come here to play "Spessmen" and are immediately disappointed, sofar saying the game mode is "Touchy" and doesn't support it is a personal opinion (That also to point out, what I say is also technically a personal opinion in certain areas, he's not the only ones people, takes two to tango.) when sofar throughout all of CM it has been and continues to support through gameplay the server, if there's is an issue with lack of staff then get to hiring, leave it out of this discussion where it has absolutely no place to be in, saying we don't have enough people and that effects marriage is literally throwing a Stone at a window and expecting the Stone to Stick to the Glass, it just makes no sense and has no place here.

Finally I see lots of people Role Playing it out, saying it doesn't happen, and people don't like it when sofar NOONE has even asked if they do, and noone has literally said, "Lets sit down and observed those who are married before we make a decision to Ban those who try to RP Marriage." is by far an act of sheer laziness of actually properly handling the issue. And laziness kills servers.

I gave examples of staff because metagaming marines affect staff the most. We have to deal with that stuff, and currently I don't think we want to deal with that stuff. I tried to move away from the staff argument because I could see how it was off topic, but it does also affect us. I personally don't want to deal with more in game issues arising from bad RP, and I know the rest of the staff would prefer to not deal with it either. It's just annoying, and generally a pain to deal with (as you should know).

RP influences the game a little bit in the sense that it can sometimes make a scene more climactic, dramatic, and exciting. However, we mainly do military RP. This consist of tacticool (tactical, but cool) teamwork with other people that simulates to some extent being in a military environment. I'm fairly sure that the objective of the server is to emulate the feeling of being in some kind of military organization. Marriage simply does not fit in with the theme at the moment.

The reason I keep bringing up the new game mode is because it will actually promote more RP, and it makes sense for marriage to be a thing in it. In fact, marriage can provide some epic reasoning for why someone is even on the mission in the first place. When this mode comes out, I feel like then would be the time to allow marriage back onto the server because it would make sense to do so; however, with that in mind, it does not make sense at the current time thematically for marriage to be a thing in CM. There's simply no place for it in the server.

*An alternative I also would like to propose is that we open a forum on here that allows people to post up a backstory to their marriage. It doesn't have to really fit in with the lore or anything, but it would allow those who want that kind of RP, to have that kind of RP. This way we can avoid the meta people while still allowing people who want to marry, to marry. It'd be like the character dossiers, but a little less detailed (unless you wanted to make it that way).

[Xurphorus]

Alright I'm gonna make my comment brief, to those of you who know me, and to those who don't, I play as Xur ''Ghost'' Dergens on CM, I've played for awhile, I left, then I came back. I've enjoyed the new changes so far to CM since the last server and been accused of a lot of things, MetaComms, Metafriending, and Metagaming. I'm not guilty of anything but MetaFriending if that's even a real thing, people get on CM to play with their ''Friends'', not to just repeat an endless loop that gets stale after a short while. A lot of the folks I squad with, players and staff alike enjoy a little friendly character development from time to time instead of the same old ''Hi, what's your name'' BS. Ok some players like to jump the gun and rush the bridge because they want to be in the same squad with the person they feel most comfortable playing with, then its up to the one assigning them to just say ''NO'' and proceed to tell them why. The real issue is not marriage to you folk, its the buddying up, because if the same scenario were played out with a close friend it would have probably played out the same way. The issue was minor in my opinion and could have been dealt with more discretely than making this absurd poll about allowing or disallowing character marriage.

[apophis775]

As I said earlier, there's a difference between "friending" and "meta-friending".

The thing is, marriage is a PART of the meta-friending side. It's different that, lets see who my friends are. It's basically a public declaration that your meta-friends forever. It wasn't just that single incident, it's a few others that were brought to light as a result.

And from my point of view, the Absurd thing, is characters marrying on our type of server.

[Gelonvia]

It's not an issue of staff numbers, it's an issue that staff get burned out when dealing with bullshit. There's a difference between griefing and bullshit. Bullshit is situations where it's IC dickery or Meta-friendedness that's causing drama.


Also, whoever is telling people I'm making marriages illegal, please stop. I keep getting messages across several platforms, when I never said I'm making it illegal. It's just getting annoying to be doing something and my phone sudden goes off with skype messages saying "I heard you are making marriages illegal, What the fuck?". Especially since, the people who have messaged me, didn't even know about this topic. There is not final determination yet.

I can actually help pull in the reins on this I know who told me and they can revert whoever told them and etc.

If staff are getting burned out however then they should go on a personal Hiatus and just take a break from it all, do anything constantly for too long and your definitely going to burn out and especially on SS13.

[Gelonvia]

As I said earlier, there's a difference between "friending" and "meta-friending".

The thing is, marriage is a PART of the meta-friending side. It's different that, lets see who my friends are. It's basically a public declaration that your meta-friends forever. It wasn't just that single incident, it's a few others that were brought to light as a result.

And from my point of view, the Absurd thing, is characters marrying on our type of server.

You may from the outside see it as a declaration of Meta-Friending, but from experience from someone who actually has a IC married character it was a declaration of Trust and Respect, for Casca and Xur it was to spice up their RP by actually giving them a reason to talk.

To make it clear, once again it's not the Marriage that is causing Meta-Friending, it's the mindset of the players and the basis of Human Nature to make opinions on others.

If Staff are getting burned out then they need a break from Staffing just for a little, you will still be burning out regardless of getting rid of Marriage, and punishing the playerbase cause some of you are tired is a bit irrational.

[UnknownMurder]

Marriage is Meta-Friend. It's just simple as that. It really is meta-friending. Also, military rules will always say you can't marry each other, the lore is like 2 centuries later, that rule won't change much. It's there for a good reason. Characters never met each other before the Cyro, simple as that, but some complains it doesn't help RP. Well, it's true. Also, as someone said. Someone marrying at the same time as a disaster break out. What is this, Titanic?

To get married with a player, you must first have their consent OOCly, which leads to meta-friending. Once, you're married. That's that, you're ganging up as a partner. You used OOC information consent to convey to IC. Character sheet/dossier of marriage to IC.

Friending is just becoming friends roleplayingly with a player you don't know. I love to do this than meta-friending/ganging. It gives unfair advantage. Someone said someone broke out of prison for his meta-friend. Well, there we are.

Some of you may be thinking, why the fuck are we talking about this small issue? Children, this is not a small issue. It is a well known issue we have. People buddying up with friends and leaving out some newcomers. Don't lie to yourself, everyone's done this in some point of their life time or even in games. You make the player feel left out.

[Edgelord]

Marriage is Meta-Friend. It's just simple as that. It really is meta-friending. Also, military rules will always say you can't marry each other, the lore is like 2 centuries later, that rule won't change much. It's there for a good reason. Characters never met each other before the Cyro, simple as that, but some complains it doesn't help RP. Well, it's true. Also, as someone said. Someone marrying at the same time as a disaster break out. What is this, Titanic?

To get married with a player, you must first have their consent OOCly, which leads to meta-friending. Once, you're married. That's that, you're ganging up as a partner. You used OOC information consent to convey to IC. Character sheet/dossier of marriage to IC.

Friending is just becoming friends roleplayingly with a player you don't know. I love to do this than meta-friending/ganging. It gives unfair advantage. Someone said someone broke out of prison for his meta-friend. Well, there we are.

Some of you may be thinking, why the fuck are we talking about this small issue? Children, this is not a small issue. It is a well known issue we have. People buddying up with friends and leaving out some newcomers. Don't lie to yourself, everyone's done this in some point of their life time or even in games. You make the player feel left out.

I agree with like everything you said except for the "Characters never met each other before cryo". That doesn't seem right. I think knowing people and even having friendly relationships with them is fine. But being committed to them is where I find issue.

Oh and calling people you've never met "children" doesn't help your argument. It actually makes it sound condescending and rude.

[UnknownMurder]

Sorry, I'm very displeased with the direction this is going to.

[apophis775]

Again, you can't isolate Meta-friending and marriage from each other. They are one and the same.

Marriage, is just making Meta-friending confirmed and more obvious.

I guess what I need to do, is define friending and meta-friending again, since it's gotten pushed back:


Friending (this is OK): Joining a squad with the same people frequently, Being friends with marines and helping them on the planet or if they are in danger. Not disrupting the greater "RP" of the round by breaking away from your squad, staying on the ship, or causing shenanigans. Being "friendly" and "friends", but not "besties". This is acceptable, and sort of encouraged. Because, it creates cohesion between players and gives the sense of "friendship" you get with military service.

Meta-Friending (this is NOT OK): Creating "cliques" (like Banter/sanctum, which I've never been fond of), marrying and sticking around with THE SAME MARINE forever, or focusing your roleplay around doing everything with that one specific marine always, assisting your "friend" when he gets caught doing something bad, by going after the MPs, causing problems and disobeying squad/command orders in order to "hang out" or "be near" your meta-friend, letting incidents involving your meta-friends dictate Roleplay and remove people from being able to fight (such as, locking them in isolation). THIS is the problem. This is the disease that Marriage is the most noticible symptom of. And know this, no matter WHICH WAY this topic goes in the end, Meta-friending on this level WILL be coming to an abrupt end.



If I can digress a moment...

Have you guys heard of the term "Singularity"? As in, the Point of Divergence. I sort of feel, like "marriage", and the reprocussions of what happens in either direction, is our Singularity as far as CM is concerned. Because with this decision, THINGS WILL CHANGE. Either, we are going to allow marriages, and the focus of development will shift towards giving the people on the sulaco more stuff to do or we will not allow them, and players will be upset because we adjust the RP standard, resulting in changes to the overall player-base and balance. The point where we have to decide "are we going to just become another regular SS13 server, or are we going to stay true to our values?". Because, i've put off a ruling or decision against meta-friending for a long time, despite knowing it's going on. I feel like, if we keep pushing it back, it's just going to keep getting worse. Thus, this decision, will heavily influence how we deal with metafriending, and how we define it.



Let me be blunt, and I don't mean offense to anyone, but here's basically how I see it:

This is not a sever were you should be trying to have romantic interests or subverting authority for no reason. Your a MARINE, or at the very least, working for the marines. Your job is to the USCM above all else. Spouses, would just get in the way of that and detract from the "greater RP" which should be "Your a marine, fighting aliens".

I've let the RP stuff go too loose and wild for too long, and this is what's happened. This discussion isn't JUST about marriage between players, it's sort of also about the direction we are going to take with the server. Because honestly, people marrying is not what I intended, nor what I want.

And yes, I know it's the community that drives the server, but really, if your just going to hang out on the ship always and just play because of your meta-spouse, then your not really contributing to the server. And again, to be blunt, you'd probably be more comfortable elseware as there are servers that cater to romance and it's ilk. I don't really want us to become one of them.


Again, the important thing about this specific question, is that (like I've said) it's going to determine the direction we go, because I honestly am not sure I can see myself taking claim to a server that endorses stuff like this. It just feel "wrong" personally and I'm not sure how it will affect my motivation. What we set out to do, was create a fun Action-RP environment, but lately, it feels like we are slowly being warped into "just another SS13 server". But that's not what I wanted this to be. I wanted to make this into something unique and enjoyable, and provide a fun environment. I feel like, if we don't start the process of limiting meta-friending, we are going to end up similar to what turned me off of hypatia. People in cliques who feel superior to others and make players feel like shit. I've said this MANY times, I hate bullies and will not tolerate "bullying". I feel like, one of the things that leaves us open to bullies/bullying, IS the meta-friending.




Also, as far as the "characters have never met each other before awaking in cryo" I'm leaning against that a bit. Maybe SOME are new, but most people in a unit know each other. You'd never take 20 people and throw them on a mission together and expect anything other than failure. You live together, you fight together, you die together. That is what it should feel like.

[UnknownMurder]

I believe this resolves the debate, we still angry and wanting debate more?

Apophis made it clear.

[Wickedtemp]

Then there's positions like MP, where there isn't exactly all that much to do ASIDE from RP, waiting for a marine to do something stupid. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes the survivors get wiped out and marines are competent enough to not get arrested, so it's either MP patrols an empty ship for an hour, or we RP with the few people that are still around.

RP leads to closer friendships, both purely IC and 'meta'. It's why some people think MP are RPing too much. Because what else are we supposed to do? In some cases the MP don't even KNOW about aliens until the first couple waves of injured marines come in, so before that point the RP can be about... really anything, be it relationships, character info such as favorite foods/music, etc, how that one stupid marine shot their comrade by accident... I get that maybe you don't want the server to really be a "medium" RP server, that you think it should really take the back seat when it comes to fighting aliens.

But the issue is, not everyone on the sulaco is fighting aliens. Hell, if doctors fight the aliens they can get job-banned depending on the circumstances. MP can't even have lethal weapons until we're already boarded, we don't RP fighting aliens because we aren't fighting aliens and in some cases don't even know there are aliens until late-game.

[Gelonvia]

Marriage is Meta-Friend. It's just simple as that. It really is meta-friending. Also, military rules will always say you can't marry each other, the lore is like 2 centuries later, that rule won't change much. It's there for a good reason. Characters never met each other before the Cyro, simple as that, but some complains it doesn't help RP. Well, it's true. Also, as someone said. Someone marrying at the same time as a disaster break out. What is this, Titanic?

To get married with a player, you must first have their consent OOCly, which leads to meta-friending. Once, you're married. That's that, you're ganging up as a partner. You used OOC information consent to convey to IC. Character sheet/dossier of marriage to IC.

Friending is just becoming friends roleplayingly with a player you don't know. I love to do this than meta-friending/ganging. It gives unfair advantage. Someone said someone broke out of prison for his meta-friend. Well, there we are.

Some of you may be thinking, why the fuck are we talking about this small issue? Children, this is not a small issue. It is a well known issue we have. People buddying up with friends and leaving out some newcomers. Don't lie to yourself, everyone's done this in some point of their life time or even in games. You make the player feel left out.

Theres a difference between Meta Friending and being Friends, before exaggerating the point and trying to say because two people are ICly together that it has any instances of effecting the persons opinion OOCly would be a GROSS assumption of the persons character, just cause you dislike something ICly does not mean OOCly anything is happening especially when the facts prove against the point.

We already have examples of characters telling off other characters who are friends for their own good because of their own good, now heres the following problem,

#1: The constant laziness I am seeing from certain staff to throw punishments at players for marriage instead of Directly handling issues of Lack of Staff/Stress of Staff/And Metafriending as stated.

#2: The lack of full understanding of the difference between Friends and Meta-Friending.
#3: The punishment of the masses out of Paranoia of what could happen but has yet to happen.

If your getting stressed, take time off, if you dislike RP, don't come to CM where even Apop you have said expect to RP here in the past where everywhere you go is RP elements, when you spawn as specific jobs it even states these are High RP positions and to be prepared.

Finally actually tackle the issue, if you remove the ring it won't stop them from being friends, nothing will be accomplished other then starting a flame among the community and it will be removed and the issue will continue even as the good players leave.

[Lostmixup]

"The constant laziness I am seeing from certain staff to throw punishments at players for marriage instead of Directly handling issues of Lack of Staff/Stress of Staff/And Metafriending as stated."

We haven't been banning people because they're married. If you know someone's been doing this you need to message Apop or Sas and tell them about it. Even messaging me would be good.

[Gelonvia]

Again, you can't isolate Meta-friending and marriage from each other. They are one and the same.

Marriage, is just making Meta-friending confirmed and more obvious.

I guess what I need to do, is define friending and meta-friending again, since it's gotten pushed back:


Friending (this is OK): Joining a squad with the same people frequently, Being friends with marines and helping them on the planet or if they are in danger. Not disrupting the greater "RP" of the round by breaking away from your squad, staying on the ship, or causing shenanigans. Being "friendly" and "friends", but not "besties". This is acceptable, and sort of encouraged. Because, it creates cohesion between players and gives the sense of "friendship" you get with military service.

Meta-Friending (this is NOT OK): Creating "cliques" (like Banter/sanctum, which I've never been fond of), marrying and sticking around with THE SAME MARINE forever, or focusing your roleplay around doing everything with that one specific marine always, assisting your "friend" when he gets caught doing something bad, by going after the MPs, causing problems and disobeying squad/command orders in order to "hang out" or "be near" your meta-friend, letting incidents involving your meta-friends dictate Roleplay and remove people from being able to fight (such as, locking them in isolation). THIS is the problem. This is the disease that Marriage is the most noticible symptom of. And know this, no matter WHICH WAY this topic goes in the end, Meta-friending on this level WILL be coming to an abrupt end.



If I can digress a moment...

Have you guys heard of the term "Singularity"? As in, the Point of Divergence. I sort of feel, like "marriage", and the reprocussions of what happens in either direction, is our Singularity as far as CM is concerned. Because with this decision, THINGS WILL CHANGE. Either, we are going to allow marriages, and the focus of development will shift towards giving the people on the sulaco more stuff to do or we will not allow them, and players will be upset because we adjust the RP standard, resulting in changes to the overall player-base and balance. The point where we have to decide "are we going to just become another regular SS13 server, or are we going to stay true to our values?". Because, i've put off a ruling or decision against meta-friending for a long time, despite knowing it's going on. I feel like, if we keep pushing it back, it's just going to keep getting worse. Thus, this decision, will heavily influence how we deal with metafriending, and how we define it.



Let me be blunt, and I don't mean offense to anyone, but here's basically how I see it:

This is not a sever were you should be trying to have romantic interests or subverting authority for no reason. Your a MARINE, or at the very least, working for the marines. Your job is to the USCM above all else. Spouses, would just get in the way of that and detract from the "greater RP" which should be "Your a marine, fighting aliens".

I've let the RP stuff go too loose and wild for too long, and this is what's happened. This discussion isn't JUST about marriage between players, it's sort of also about the direction we are going to take with the server. Because honestly, people marrying is not what I intended, nor what I want.

And yes, I know it's the community that drives the server, but really, if your just going to hang out on the ship always and just play because of your meta-spouse, then your not really contributing to the server. And again, to be blunt, you'd probably be more comfortable elseware as there are servers that cater to romance and it's ilk. I don't really want us to become one of them.


Again, the important thing about this specific question, is that (like I've said) it's going to determine the direction we go, because I honestly am not sure I can see myself taking claim to a server that endorses stuff like this. It just feel "wrong" personally and I'm not sure how it will affect my motivation. What we set out to do, was create a fun Action-RP environment, but lately, it feels like we are slowly being warped into "just another SS13 server". But that's not what I wanted this to be. I wanted to make this into something unique and enjoyable, and provide a fun environment. I feel like, if we don't start the process of limiting meta-friending, we are going to end up similar to what turned me off of hypatia. People in cliques who feel superior to others and make players feel like shit. I've said this MANY times, I hate bullies and will not tolerate "bullying". I feel like, one of the things that leaves us open to bullies/bullying, IS the meta-friending.




Also, as far as the "characters have never met each other before awaking in cryo" I'm leaning against that a bit. Maybe SOME are new, but most people in a unit know each other. You'd never take 20 people and throw them on a mission together and expect anything other than failure. You live together, you fight together, you die together. That is what it should feel like.

Sadly, "Saying" they are the same does not make them to same. So yes we will discuss this and continue to, right now you speak about hating bullies but right now your bullying the community to follow what you wish, we have tallied votes, we have people who want it, we have the polls, the votes, we have spoken up but been entirely ignored on our own opinions, sofar the only opinion that matters Apop right now is yours, we even have been told regardless how this goes there will still be action against us which means there was never an intention to listen.

You have a fear of becoming Hypatia but by pushing away the fun from Hypatia and turning it into a Marine simulator you are literally reflecting Hypatia by turning it into a Job Simulator. You want to know the worst recorded Clique of Meta-Frienders on Hypatia? It was the Marine Chatgroup, under them was the eRPing Lockhearts, some kinda Russians group of Tarkov's which were essentially a Mafia that beat people up just because. And most of the Staff was involved, the disappointment that came from Heinrich and other staff members due to all the issues was incredible cause most of these Cliques were from the poor decisions of Staff to be involved. By trying to remove Marriage you will start by pissing people off and losing what good playerbase you have, the remainder will continue and cause the issues that they have been and deter anyone who's new from joining. Then you strip the fun out of it because your trying to push the laws of the RL Marines tofar into your Game, Emphasis on GAME this is a Game, where people come to have fun and your trying to limit it in this step, once again like Hypatia.

In attempts to not be Hypatia you are becoming it, thats what scares me, these poor decisions that change the CM everyone enjoys into something we absolutely despise, a shell of its former self thats no fun and people will go, "I miss the old CM." and we already have people saying that.

[Gelonvia]

"The constant laziness I am seeing from certain staff to throw punishments at players for marriage instead of Directly handling issues of Lack of Staff/Stress of Staff/And Metafriending as stated."

We haven't been banning people because they're married. If you know someone's been doing this you need to message Apop or Sas and tell them about it. Even messaging me would be good.

You avoiding my point, or simply not looking at it,

To do this is a punishment against players for marriage and to avoid the present three issues, what your doing is a mislead attempt to fix an issue without tackling an issue, see the problem?

Your saying right now message me for banning, but I have never said banning, I said punishment which is what this poll is, its about punishing people for RPing. You need to directly handly your issues, stop lashing at us.

[Westhybrid]

By trying to remove Marriage you will start by pissing people off and losing what good playerbase you have, the remainder will continue and cause the issues that they have been and deter anyone who's new from joining.

There are six of you.

[Lostmixup]

You avoiding my point, or simply not looking at it,

To do this is a punishment against players for marriage and to avoid the present three issues, what your doing is a mislead attempt to fix an issue without tackling an issue, see the problem?

Your saying right now message me for banning, but I have never said banning, I said punishment which is what this poll is, its about punishing people for RPing. You need to directly handly your issues, stop lashing at us.

This isn't just some "punishment" because of a few people, it's also a discussion about if marriage even has a place on server (which I think it doesn't as you know). Also, I assumed you meant banning because of the way you used the word "punishment."

We have indeed been handling the lack of staff, this may come as a surprise, but decent spriters are really hard to find and keep on the team, same with coders. The stress of the staff is directly related to us being in an almost transitional phase on server where we argue about topics like if marriage should be allowed because it directly relates to which direction the server is going (directly is my word atm). It's pretty clear we're trying to resolve those issues as well. Meta-friending isn't exactly an issue that can be controlled 100%, only contained and minimized. If you have a way to contain and minimize the meta-friending then do share.

In all seriousness though, if anyone has any problems with the way staff have handled something please either message a head or make a report on the forums. We appreciate the criticism.

[Gelonvia]

This isn't just some "punishment" because of a few people, it's also a discussion about if marriage even has a place on server (which I think it doesn't as you know). Also, I assumed you meant banning because of the way you used the word "punishment."

We have indeed been handling the lack of staff, this may come as a surprise, but decent spriters are really hard to find and keep on the team, same with coders. The stress of the staff is directly related to us being in an almost transitional phase on server where we argue about topics like if marriage should be allowed because it directly relates to which direction the server is going (directly is my word atm). It's pretty clear we're trying to resolve those issues as well. Meta-friending isn't exactly an issue that can be controlled 100%, only contained and minimized. If you have a way to contain and minimize the meta-friending then do share.

In all seriousness though, if anyone has any problems with the way staff have handled something please either message a head or make a report on the forums. We appreciate the criticism.

To quote Apop, Assumptions are the number one cause of death of marines on the battlefield. If I meant banning I would just say banning, and thats the thing, we are messaging you guys right now on the Forum right here that half your population has a problem with all of this. Literally you have over 20+ please saying they have a problem literal standstill of matching the people who say they want it. Half your population has a problem about it and this is just people looking, most of the people who WANT it sofar are Staff in those votes so this is more or less a vote of what Staff want. I can bet you the Staff who are agreeing with us that Marriage should be allowed are ignored on their opinion, its not "Mhm, I understand where you are coming from, mind explaining your side more I want to hear it." its NO NO NO, its TOTALLY not what you think its ___ to convince them to change, or "It is a problem, blah blah blah, sticking to my thoughts about not wanting it." And thats your problem, your not Containing anything by banning Marriage, its purely for Nit Picking,

I will say this once more, and listen very carefully, you can ICly make the characters nolonger man and wife but your not going to stop them from OOCly being friends, if you don't want them from OOCly being friends then you need a different approach.

[Stalin]

In-game marriage doesn't have a place in this server.
There's far too much drama associated with it, and the people involved in the relationships like to flaunt them off to other players. To further add to why they should be removed, Apophis said it himself: married couples wouldn't be in the same military division. The penal battalions of World War I were disbanded because entire towns could be wiped in a matter of minutes, and create severe emotional trauma for the survivors. That emotional trauma would be increased tenfold with a loved one, who can die in a variety of more brutal methods now and in the future than those available in World War I.

On a side note, if marriage is accepted, don't forget to be politically correct. I expect representation of all gender preferences.

[Lostmixup]

To quote Apop, Assumptions are the number one cause of death of marines on the battlefield. If I meant banning I would just say banning, and thats the thing, we are messaging you guys right now on the Forum right here that half your population has a problem with all of this. Literally you have over 20+ please saying they have a problem literal standstill of matching the people who say they want it. Half your population has a problem about it and this is just people looking, most of the people who WANT it sofar are Staff in those votes so this is more or less a vote of what Staff want. I can bet you the Staff who are agreeing with us that Marriage should be allowed are ignored on their opinion, its not "Mhm, I understand where you are coming from, mind explaining your side more I want to hear it." its NO NO NO, its TOTALLY not what you think its ___ to convince them to change, or "It is a problem, blah blah blah, sticking to my thoughts about not wanting it." And thats your problem, your not Containing anything by banning Marriage, its purely for Nit Picking,

I will say this once more, and listen very carefully, you can ICly make the characters nolonger man and wife but your not going to stop them from OOCly being friends, if you don't want them from OOCly being friends then you need a different approach.

Actually, any of the staff I've talked to who've even bothered to look at this topic (I'm jabbing at you people) either don't really care, so they didn't vote, or they said no. Some have even changed their votes from yes to no.

[HalfdeadKiller]

Honeatly, If someone comes on simply because another player is on, and they leave if the other leaves, what does it matter? Why does it have to matter if certain people only play with other certain people? And how is this not contributing to the server? Their players for gods sake. They provide something different than shoot em up.

On the topic of cliques and stuff. Well. Those are inevitable, simply because of how socializing works. A lot of marines are downright stupid. So those of us who aren't stupid stick together. This unfortunately means there is now a sort of clique. It isn't stoppable unless you outright ban all of those in said clique. Forming Sanctum or Banter is simply a list of common marine names, that way those on the list can know who has their back and isn't stupid.

And perhaps marriage isn't fitting for this server, but honestly, the only time any sort of marriage stuff comes up, is this single incident where the MPs failed miserably, and the CMO did a shit job. I don't think marriage has come up other than being in the flavor text of characters. I didn't even know Tanya and Mike were married. And frankly I don't really give a damn. They wanna rp marriage? Let em. As long as they follow the rules I see no problem.

[apophis775]

Theres a difference between Meta Friending and being Friends, before exaggerating the point and trying to say because two people are ICly together that it has any instances of effecting the persons opinion OOCly would be a GROSS assumption of the persons character, just cause you dislike something ICly does not mean OOCly anything is happening especially when the facts prove against the point.

We already have examples of characters telling off other characters who are friends for their own good because of their own good, now heres the following problem,

#1: The constant laziness I am seeing from certain staff to throw punishments at players for marriage instead of Directly handling issues of Lack of Staff/Stress of Staff/And Metafriending as stated.

#2: The lack of full understanding of the difference between Friends and Meta-Friending.
#3: The punishment of the masses out of Paranoia of what could happen but has yet to happen.

If your getting stressed, take time off, if you dislike RP, don't come to CM where even Apop you have said expect to RP here in the past where everywhere you go is RP elements, when you spawn as specific jobs it even states these are High RP positions and to be prepared.

Finally actually tackle the issue, if you remove the ring it won't stop them from being friends, nothing will be accomplished other then starting a flame among the community and it will be removed and the issue will continue even as the good players leave.

Again, I defined friending and meta-friending. And I'm not sure what punishments your talking about. Noone has gotten punished, and noone is getting punished. If ANYONE is punishing people for marriages right now (before a ruling) tell me, and I'll deal with them. Because this is NOT finalized.

Sadly, "Saying" they are the same does not make them to same. So yes we will discuss this and continue to, right now you speak about hating bullies but right now your bullying the community to follow what you wish, we have tallied votes, we have people who want it, we have the polls, the votes, we have spoken up but been entirely ignored on our own opinions, sofar the only opinion that matters Apop right now is yours, we even have been told regardless how this goes there will still be action against us which means there was never an intention to listen.

You have a fear of becoming Hypatia but by pushing away the fun from Hypatia and turning it into a Marine simulator you are literally reflecting Hypatia by turning it into a Job Simulator. You want to know the worst recorded Clique of Meta-Frienders on Hypatia? It was the Marine Chatgroup, under them was the eRPing Lockhearts, some kinda Russians group of Tarkov's which were essentially a Mafia that beat people up just because. And most of the Staff was involved, the disappointment that came from Heinrich and other staff members due to all the issues was incredible cause most of these Cliques were from the poor decisions of Staff to be involved. By trying to remove Marriage you will start by pissing people off and losing what good playerbase you have, the remainder will continue and cause the issues that they have been and deter anyone who's new from joining. Then you strip the fun out of it because your trying to push the laws of the RL Marines tofar into your Game, Emphasis on GAME this is a Game, where people come to have fun and your trying to limit it in this step, once again like Hypatia.

In attempts to not be Hypatia you are becoming it, thats what scares me, these poor decisions that change the CM everyone enjoys into something we absolutely despise, a shell of its former self thats no fun and people will go, "I miss the old CM." and we already have people saying that.

I'm not bullying the community. You mention tallied votes and polls, have you voted? can you see the results? Cause its 24 yes 26 no (19NOV2015 11:56pm server time). If anything, that's showing the community is torn about this, just like I am. Yes, we have people who want them, and I've not ignored ANYONES opinions or comments. I've made a FAIR EFFORT to reply to everyone and as I've said, I have made NO decisions yet. I think, you need to calm down, and perhaps READ what I'm saying fully instead of just quoting it. Because I've defined SEVERAL TIMES, the difference between friending and meta-friending. And again, I don't just make "changes on a whim", so my adivce is to "calm down". As far as missing the old CM, if people REALLY miss the buggy shitstorm of old CM, with the 4 total types of aliens, 4 guns (revolver, pistol, LMG, and that Cr-20 thing), and the shitty maps we had, then it's good to know that all the work I'm doing isn't making it better for anyone.

I'm not going to take ANY final actions on this, until I am FULLY sure what I want to do, which is the ENTIRE point of this topic. But if what I get by allowing the community to give feedback about an upcoming decision, is getting told I'm turning this into "hypatia" and that people are despising all the decisions I'm making, then I'm obviously doing something wrong. Except, we topped out at 86 players today, so I'm obviously doing SOMETHING right.

I think you may be exaggerating the situation here, especially since THIS HAS NOT BEEN FINALIZED, not to mention with how heated THIS gets, it won't be finalized for awhile.






Finally, my plan to control meta-friending, EVEN IF the ultimate decision is to allow marriages, is that I'm going to write up a set of conditions/rules, and if there's a situation that is ahelped, and X number of the conditions are met, then it's a situation of META-FRIENDING.

I think I've proven in the past, that I am usually more than fair when I make large rule changes or adjustments. Also, considering I took CM from a server that got like, 25-30 people at it's cap to a server and turned it into one of the most popular servers around (that caps normally over 80 (every day) and over 100 (on weekends)), that perhaps I deserve the benefit of the doubt, and I maybe know at least at LITTLE bit about what I'm doing and won't cock everything up on such a sensitive matter without thorough discussion and investigation.

So my advice to those of you who are freaking out: CALM DOWN.