Remove cloning

[ZDashe]

The point of removing cloning has been suggested as a way to change how players play the game. (Better medics/treatment of wounded/self-preservation). It's not about nerfing marines by making it slower to clone etc. It's about removing all hope of getting revived, rather than give a false sense of hope thinking that you will be revived anyway, so you can just rush in and die.

Though I agree with the sentiment of removing cloning (and i'm in favor of +1), I feel that this supposed "improvement" would face huge resistance because others would:
1. Whine about putting cloning back in before trial period has ended
2. Not try to adapt their own playstyle (as rambo-rines)
3. Not gitting gudder instead (as medics/doctors)
4. Act as black sheep (Losing an important marine role slot from tom-foolery)

Still +1 just as a social experiment even if everything else fails.

[sicktrigger]

lately i'm seeing a lot of marines killing themselves while infected, just so they can be cloned immediately afterward

fuck these people

remove cloning 2016

[Azmodan412]

Even those right at the hive's entrance. YOU'D know if you were too deep in to get out safely ie checkerboard nests. #RemoveClones2k16. +1.

[sicktrigger]

i'm talking about marines that are free, on a shuttle back, or even aboard the sulaco

[Boltersam]

lately i'm seeing a lot of marines killing themselves while infected, just so they can be cloned immediately afterward

fuck these people

remove cloning 2016

DOWN WITH THE CLONE EMPIRE!

In all seriousness though, we're already outnumbered, and cloned marines can get equipped and go fight MUCH faster than an alien can evolve. +1.

[Wickedtemp]

Still +1.

Its rarely used, when it is it's not too fair for the xeno side because the already outnumbered team has to deal with dead marines coming back.

Also all of that equipment could be removed and replaced with another OR or two. That would actually really be useful. With an advanced scanner and possibly a cryo cell to go along with it.

Also increase the number of Doctor job slots to help balance out the growing need for medical.

[TopHatPenguin]

DOWN WITH THE CLONE EMPIRE!

My allegiance is to the republic, to democracy.

► Show Spoiler

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak516vtDTEA

On a more serious note I'd be down for this if it did happen, however like I and many others have stated before there would be a need to buff some thing else, perhaps.the defibs? Perhaps making medic stasis bags inject painkiller into an injured marine, that's just some ideas at least.

[OffRoad99]

Aye, I am also in favor of removing cloning entirely. It's a cheap and effective way out of a dangerous situation (like people killing themselves because infected and then waiting to be cloned). It's not supported lore-wise. Cloning is a real thing in Alien: Resurrection, sure, but that was a top-secret program from WY, certainly not a technology given freely to the Marine Corps.

This may aswell be the right opportunity to get a minor tweaking for the Medical Department and Field Medics. Better instruments and equipment, starting access to webbings in their automated vendors, chargers in the Medbay to recharge defibrillators.

[Derpislav]

I've said it in the other thread about cloning:

The moment cloning gets removed, I can assure you carriers and infectorunners* will receive so much hate we'll have a hall of shame for people playing that caste. Infecting will become the go-to way to remove marines from the round, because if they burst on their way to medbay, gg no re.
If cloning is to get removed (which I VERY support), combat hugging must get toned down too.

*AKA Ghetto Carriers, runners that sprint between the egg chamber and frontlines, charging straight through the lines and simply dropping huggers near moving marines.

[forwardslashN]

If cloning is to get removed (which I VERY support), combat hugging must get toned down too.

Or just removed entirely. Except for the carrier, which can be rebalanced around that.

[tenshar]

Still don't support this, you will punish new players and make the game one where marines will either retreat at the first sign of combat or turtle in an iron box. You can tell people to "get gud" and what ever the hell you want to, but that's a bs reason to remove it.

You want to remove it because its non cannon then you need to remove quite a number of things from this server including but not limited to:

Acid spit from most classes including the boiler (which is actually just a suicide class in cannon) and limit it to runners and drones for low damage and pratorians and spitters for higher damage, plus Neurotoxin as it's non cannon. Slow the aliens down and make them more like stealth hunters instead of bonzi chargers other then runners. Also you need to make it so the only kind of alien we get is humanoid as an alien's form is based on the host. Lets not forget making the queen unable to move while laying eggs as doing so requires the large egg sack to be grown over a long period of time and its too large to move with, none of this rushing around and laying eggs all over.

In short it not being cannon is no reason to remove it.

As for people who rambo well that's against the server rules. And lets be honest the reason people kill themselves is because marines quickly tend to notice they are fighting a war of attrition where every man they loose to another parasite is another enemy to kill so its not surprising they end themselves if they can. Though again killing yourself on the shuttle or near allies when you have a good chance of escaping/possibly being operated on is against server rules. Doing it while nested and alone is not and it makes sense.

so yea -1 unless you have a better reason then the above

[GGgobbleCC]

Or you can keep cloning and turn off late joins 15minutes into the round and watch as this server attains an actual 50/50 win rate

But Apop and his biased buddies would never do anything to nerf beloved marines. Also the OP as fuck machetes, good idea.

[monkeysfist101]

Literally 100% of my posts contain salt.

FTFY

[Azmodan412]

Still +1.

Its rarely used, when it is it's not too fair for the xeno side because the already outnumbered team has to deal with dead marines coming back.

Also all of that equipment could be removed and replaced with another OR or two. That would actually really be useful. With an advanced scanner and possibly a cryo cell to go along with it.

Also increase the number of Doctor job slots to help balance out the growing need for medical.

Perhaps an expansion for the R&D division? Lord knows the Researcher needs more room for machines.

[Tristan63]

The stasis bag could actually use its namesake, and put someone into suspended animation. But also make them cost more in cargo and have a cool down to when they can be opened and closed.

[GGgobbleCC]

FTFY

Any changes I don't agree with are salt

Gotcha, as a dev you of all people should be aware of how fucking awful the balance is here. I gave up on thinking Apop would do anything by just looking at his posts and seeing the massive marine bias. I hoped wrongly it would seem that at least one person was competent.

Also feel free to go 'muh 50/50' stats that take into account rounds outside prime time

[Jen_Llama]

It doesn't help any of your crusades that you're toxic as hell.

[sicktrigger]

thread looking relevant again

My current thought is this:

1. Remove Cloning
2. Extend Defib time to 10 minutes
3. Give Debfibs 3 charges (must be charged on ship)
4. Disable pulling marines by aliens, make aliens use Grab (once we fix grab so it doesn't ungrab after a few seconds)

questions:
what's the current amount of time you have to defibrillate after death?
why reduce the number of charges defibs have?

[Mitchs98]

I'm going to -1 any suggestions to remove cloning at any given point in time, ESPECIALLY if aliens are still allowed to devour and/or hide corpses. Its 100% a dumb suggestion to make. Clones only help aliens if the hosts are dumb, why would you remove such a thing?

It's been around since pre-alpha, I see no possible reason to change it now at all. Especially if a shoddy 10 minute timer on a defib is all you get. Its not helping decapped or infected bursted people as I posted in reply on my complaing thread. Aliens will literally decap everything they see if this happens, thus making it moot and irrelevant. The only thing this would do would solidify alien win chance by no marines being cloneable or reviveable at all. No one wants to play if every change made is in favor of team xeno, and this only would be a BIG favor to team xeno.

I can personally say among many if this is added I'll almost never assault the caves, ever. I trust literally only maybe ten-fifteen people in this game to not kill me with friendly fire or otherwise get me killed. You're absolutely right I'm not going to waste my time assaulting and RPing only to get shot down by baldie fuck A and decapped while I'm critted by an alien.

People are only thinking about things from a small view point, from what they can gain by the cloning room being removed, without actually thinking of what will happen should cloning be removed and replace by; frankly, a really shitty suggestion.

[Dyne]

-1. Look at the latest rule update.
Not only marines are not forbidden cloning, they may even be pre-scanned now, because xenos can eat bodies.

[crono23]

Yeah, -1 from me too. Cloning already takes a lot of time and effort, and that's if everybody is competent enough to actually do the process. I've waited to be cloned for like 10-20 minutes while my body gets offloaded from the shuttle, dragged to cloning, then have a semi-competent medical person come and start processing bodies.

Let's break it down a bit. It takes about 15 seconds at the most to check a dead body. On long rounds you usually get about a dozen dead bodies stacked up outside cloning with all the doctors busy doing surgery and healing marines to deal with it. If a body is MIF, the best thing to do is to take it into the morgue so it doesn't confuse people as to what bodies have already been scanned. This takes about another 15 seconds at the least, maybe a minute or more if the morgue trays are full.

Now, what about the bodies that ARE able to be cloned? Well cloning takes about 2-3 minutes (not sure on exact numbers) and temporarily stops a single cloner from being used. Already there's a big disadvantage from only having 1 cloner left over. Let's say another body can be cloned. Now cloning is full and the doctor on duty is supposed to strip the dead bodies of their gear to prepare for the clone.

Once the 2-3 minutes are up and a clone has popped out, a doctor might already be waiting. It's possible a doctor isn't, but for simplicity let's say there is. Now that same doctor has to drag the body up to the cryotubes, and if this is a really busy round, they might all be full. Doctor has to wait for another to process injured marine in the tube, then sticks the clone in a tube and waits for the healing to be done.

Now the clone is healed up. Last thing to do is for the doctor to point out the clone's gear, then send them on their way and probably deal with the other clone. See how long this takes? As this is assuming some good stuff too. What if the cloning machine was out of biomass? What if an alien slipped on beforehand and took out one or both of the cloners? What if there are no doctors? What if the doctors/medics are busy with something else? All these 'What Ifs' can be dealt with, but they take time, and it's probably easier to focus on healing the living, than waste time trying to clone the dead, where only about 35% or less of the bodies are actually clonable.

Again, big -1 from me. And this is only what happens inside the cloning room. What if the body got mutilated or beheaded? What if a lone alien is causing too much trouble for doctors to pay attention? There's a lot of bad stuff that can happen already, and removing cloning completely is just trying to kill those rat-sized problems with a nuke.

[KittyLava]

Yeah, -1 from me too. Cloning already takes a lot of time and effort, and that's if everybody is competent enough to actually do the process. I've waited to be cloned for like 10-20 minutes while my body gets offloaded from the shuttle, dragged to cloning, then have a semi-competent medical person come and start processing bodies.

Let's break it down a bit. It takes about 15 seconds at the most to check a dead body. On long rounds you usually get about a dozen dead bodies stacked up outside cloning with all the doctors busy doing surgery and healing marines to deal with it. If a body is MIF, the best thing to do is to take it into the morgue so it doesn't confuse people as to what bodies have already been scanned. This takes about another 15 seconds at the least, maybe a minute or more if the morgue trays are full.

Now, what about the bodies that ARE able to be cloned? Well cloning takes about 2-3 minutes (not sure on exact numbers) and temporarily stops a single cloner from being used. Already there's a big disadvantage from only having 1 cloner left over. Let's say another body can be cloned. Now cloning is full and the doctor on duty is supposed to strip the dead bodies of their gear to prepare for the clone.

Once the 2-3 minutes are up and a clone has popped out, a doctor might already be waiting. It's possible a doctor isn't, but for simplicity let's say there is. Now that same doctor has to drag the body up to the cryotubes, and if this is a really busy round, they might all be full. Doctor has to wait for another to process injured marine in the tube, then sticks the clone in a tube and waits for the healing to be done.

Now the clone is healed up. Last thing to do is for the doctor to point out the clone's gear, then send them on their way and probably deal with the other clone. See how long this takes? As this is assuming some good stuff too. What if the cloning machine was out of biomass? What if an alien slipped on beforehand and took out one or both of the cloners? What if there are no doctors? What if the doctors/medics are busy with something else? All these 'What Ifs' can be dealt with, but they take time, and it's probably easier to focus on healing the living, than waste time trying to clone the dead, where only about 35% or less of the bodies are actually clonable.

Again, big -1 from me. And this is only what happens inside the cloning room. What if the body got mutilated or beheaded? What if a lone alien is causing too much trouble for doctors to pay attention? There's a lot of bad stuff that can happen already, and removing cloning completely is just trying to kill those rat-sized problems with a nuke.

Well actually there's the researcher whom can be assigned to handling cloning duties, seeing as they can't do surgery to mend organs or bones, but rather dissect corpses to preparing medication, grenades, etc. So you're able to handle that problem somewhat, or if there's a field medic being assigned to assist in getting many marines back up. As for cloners running out of biomass, well just get a corpse, iv with one beaker almost full of Clonexadone to attach, set IV to draw blood, connect to corpse for quick synthetic meat.

Now if you really want to speed things up in medbay's cryocell array, you want to mix clonexadone, cryoxadone together, occasionally some more medication types like bicaridine to alkysine, peradox, delaxin plus maybe, some burn medication dermaline/kelotane, even medication for resolving genetic defects in cloning. Honestly it takes them about a minute or two once in the cryo cell to get them back out. Then use a coffee, soda water, or some minor stimulate to awaken the marine faster, dylovene to remove sleep toxin from cloning. Usually if the marines coordinate what's going on, doctor's can adjust their cryocell mixes carefully to avoid overdose whilst also handling treatments. There's also having field medics coordinating with doctors about what to do, down to medication preparations.

As for the dead bodies, well you just need a head to clone the marine and a random corpse. Not advisable but can get the job done if needed in a pinch. Still cloning is kind of iffy, as ICly they're a lower priority if there's many injured needing surgery or triage at Medbay, unless both surgeries are back up, most personal scanned, in which case you can start to deviate or prepare more medication.

Only real thing a doctor has to worry about with cloning, is when hostiles are reported on board as their Civilians, as they'll be targeted. Now when cloning gets removed, well it'll be very likely upon discovery of something, one doctor will be asked by the CMO, or the CMO is requested to have some staff member preped for field surgery duty. Another thing marines alongside Sulaco personal would have to get use to, assigned guard details as you have non-combatants present with hostiles moving about, you want them protected or watched at all times, even more so without cloning as your doctors are the only ones capable of performing life saving surgery. Wither the command staff assigns or requests MP to marines on board guarding them whilst others search, or the personal actually listening is an IC problem by then.

[Lostmixup]

I still support removing cloning. I believe it would affect the game much more positively than negatively.

[TeknoKot]

Well, cloning really is useless time to time. But we have rounds that last waay too long, or during deadhour a griefer would come in, kill some doctors, then get downed by MPs, would be hard to get an admin/mod on. Sometimes, there are no doctors at all and we have to rely on medics cloning.

How about, remove cloning, allow medics to do surgery?

[Boltersam]

Well, cloning really is useless time to time. But we have rounds that last waay too long, or during deadhour a griefer would come in, kill some doctors, then get downed by MPs, would be hard to get an admin/mod on. Sometimes, there are no doctors at all and we have to rely on medics cloning.

How about, remove cloning, allow medics to do surgery?

Then what's the point of doctors?