Gameplay Discussion: Predators

[ShortTemperedLeprechaun]

what do preds do if a human loots pred tech (outside of being given them in an honorable context)
Do we do like the EU/Requiem and kill the fuck out of whoever is needed until the problem is solved? Preds are pretty big on not letting their tech fall into enemy hands.

Ehhhhh, depends on what they got, exactly. Usually, report to the elder, if theres no elder, use your own judgement. They got your ceremonial dagger? Besides it being acid proof, not really tech advanced, so ehhh, get it back, but don't go coco loco over it.

They someone how a bracer,mask, or tech like the sniper or smart disc? GET THAT SHIT BACK YO, THAT STUFF IS TOO ADVANCED FOR POONY OOMAN MIND TO COMPREHEND!

usually, use your best judgement.

[Casany]

A pred once died to sentry and got its everything looted, and it was the only pred. I proceeded to clone him and give it back. Best CO around outa my two CO rounds

[ShortTemperedLeprechaun]

A pred once died to sentry and got its everything looted, and it was the only pred. I proceeded to clone him and give it back. Best CO around outa my two CO rounds

Cloning a pred ic'ly, is trying to revive an alien for study.
OOC'ly, it's seeing how long it takes before said pred kills everything that moves on the sulaco in beserker rampage.

[Boltersam]

Though I'm not whitelisted myself, that does sound like a genuinely good idea. I'd be surprised if nothing similar has already been implemented.

After all, the best way to cut down on cases of people doing the wrong thing and such is to provide a chance for them to ask about the legitimacy of it before actually doing it.

It would lead to a lot less confusion, and indecision about actions that could potentially lead to a lot of negativity and/or breakage of the honor code, though it would need to be policed by admins to prevent people sharing things about the current round that they shouldn't.

[Toroic]

A pred once died to sentry and got its everything looted, and it was the only pred. I proceeded to clone him and give it back. Best CO around outa my two CO rounds

Honestly that sort of thing should earn a CO job-ban for incompetence , and also powergaming if you cloned the pred yourself.

It is not remotely how a CO should act.

The purpose of the CO is to lead and protect the marines in their care. Cloning and rearming a hostile alien lifeform on your ship is almost too retarded a move for a WY rep.

[Casany]

Honestly that sort of thing should earn a CO job-ban for incompetence , and also powergaming if you cloned the pred yourself.

It is not remotely how a CO should act.

The purpose of the CO is to lead and protect the marines in their care. Cloning and rearming a hostile alien lifeform on your ship is almost too retarded a move for a WY rep.

How is that incompetent and powergaming? i didnt clone it, i placed it in the machine and a doctor clonned them. I have no clue how it is incompetence, as during this i was directing and leading the ground squads. The whole reason i did this was for OOCly to see if a pred could be clonned and ICly to research a LIVE alien specimen, a pet project if you will. And the marines evaced about 1 minute before pred was clonned.

[northcote4]

-snip-

I believe they were saying it was power-gaming because, the way you wrote it, it sounded like YOU cloned the predator as CO.

And as for their point about incompetence... That'd probably be from re-arming the hostile alien lifeform with all of its tools.

[Casany]

I believe they were saying it was power-gaming because, the way you wrote it, it sounded like YOU cloned the predator as CO.

And as for their point about incompetence... That'd probably be from re-arming the hostile alien lifeform with all of its tools.

Well, i only had the plasma hunting rifle(?) and his combispear, and when he got out of the clonner he was wearing his bracers and mesh suit...the rest the other marines had taken and probably died with

[Toroic]

Well, i only had the plasma hunting rifle(?) and his combispear, and when he got out of the clonner he was wearing his bracers and mesh suit...the rest the other marines had taken and probably died with

Well, I take it all back if the CO /only/ gave the freshly cloned hostile predator their combispear and pred sniper rifle on the Sulaco.

How could I possibly interpret that sequence of events as a comedy of errors?

[Casany]

Well, I take it all back if the CO /only/ gave the freshly cloned hostile predator their combispear and pred sniper rifle on the Sulaco.

How could I possibly interpret that sequence of events as a comedy of errors?

Ya, and right after i gave him those two items. he went on the pod to the ground. He also took my ID to send it, so i got on to get it back RIGHT as it was sent. i died about 2 minutes later

[Toroic]

Ya, and right after i gave him those two items. he went on the pod to the ground. He also took my ID to send it, so i got on to get it back RIGHT as it was sent. i died about 2 minutes later

So you, as the CO, had a hostile alien that you "IC wanted to research a live alien specimen" but immediately after cloning it give it weapons, YOUR ALL ACCESS ID, and then immediately released it onto the ground trusting that it wouldn't cause further trouble.

How is that researching anything?

I feel like you're the kind of person who thinks RP is finding flimsy justifications to take the OOC actions you want to take, and not about playing a character who actually attempts to react in a reasonable way to the events they experience.

No one who was ever promoted to CO would do something so utterly foolish. Demonstrating such atrocious judgement as to give up alien tech, to clone and release a hostile alien, and to relinquish your ID would justify a court martial or a firing squad.

[Casany]

So you, as the CO, had a hostile alien that you "IC wanted to research a live alien specimen" but immediately after cloning it give it weapons, YOUR ALL ACCESS ID, and then immediately released it onto the ground trusting that it wouldn't cause further trouble.

How is that researching anything?

I feel like you're the kind of person who thinks RP is finding flimsy justifications to take the OOC actions you want to take, and not about playing a character who actually attempts to react in a reasonable way to the events they experience.

No one who was ever promoted to CO would do something so utterly foolish. Demonstrating such atrocious judgement as to give up alien tech, to clone and release a hostile alien, and to relinquish your ID would justify a court martial or a firing squad.

You misunderstand me. The first thing i did when i had clonned it was take it to my officed handcuffed. i let it out of my cuffs to try and communicate. i realized it understood writing, and it asked for its things. I gave them to it, and when i started questioning it about what it was, what the TECH was, so on so forth, it pushed me down, and ran into maint. i ordered a hunt for the creature and went down to the hanger for a quick look at the pod and shuttle. I saw it board the pod and I walked into the pod. I had my ID out,for some reason, and it asked for it real quickly. i allowed it, but after it started sending the pod it didnt give it back, so i asked, twice, then finally pushed it down to get my ID back. The ground had long since been evaced, so if the creature went to the ground it wouldnt be a threat to the Sulaco or marines. Then the pod went down. and either way, this happened a while ago, and i thought it would be a fun post. I didnt want to get into something like this because it just starts a "flame war" and next thing you know insults and other things are thrown around in a forum that is for a GAME. Anyway, this will be my last reply to you Toric, since i know i cant win since your like me: hardheaded.

[Toroic]

You misunderstand me. The first thing i did when i had clonned it was take it to my officed handcuffed. i let it out of my cuffs to try and communicate. i realized it understood writing, and it asked for its things. I gave them to it, and when i started questioning it about what it was, what the TECH was, so on so forth, it pushed me down, and ran into maint. i ordered a hunt for the creature and went down to the hanger for a quick look at the pod and shuttle. I saw it board the pod and I walked into the pod. I had my ID out,for some reason, and it asked for it real quickly. i allowed it, but after it started sending the pod it didnt give it back, so i asked, twice, then finally pushed it down to get my ID back. The ground had long since been evaced, so if the creature went to the ground it wouldnt be a threat to the Sulaco or marines. Then the pod went down. and either way, this happened a while ago, and i thought it would be a fun post. I didnt want to get into something like this because it just starts a "flame war" and next thing you know insults and other things are thrown around in a forum that is for a GAME. Anyway, this will be my last reply to you Toric, since i know i cant win since your like me: hardheaded.

I'm really confused what you think I misunderstood, as your clarification raises more questions of competence than it answers. Also, holy shit that predator needs their whitelist removed. "They understand writing?" Bullshit.

I understand why you shared your little anecdote, but it's a perfect example of why the server shouldn't have predators. The predators can't be trusted to RP in a realistic manner, nor can the COs be trusted to respond in a realistic manner.

There were like 8 separate nonsense decisions you made during that story.

1) Cloning the damn thing to begin with

2) Isolating yourself with it in your office

3) Giving back its weapons

4) Going to the hanger to look for it as the CO

5) Helping it escape instead of killing it for assaulting you

6) Giving it your ID to use instead of sending the pod yourself, from an external console.

7) Engaging the predator in melee

8) Being on the pod when it was sent down to the ground (a violation of the rules as a CO)

My biggest issue with all this besides the godawful RP is that you shared this story as a highlight of one of your best rounds as a CO, instead of a clear example of how the role should not be played.

I'm not hardheaded, I'm genuinely confused where you think these actions could be described as competent.

[Casany]

I'm really confused what you think I misunderstood, as your clarification raises more questions of competence than it answers. Also, holy shit that predator needs their whitelist removed. "They understand writing?" Bullshit.

I understand why you shared your little anecdote, but it's a perfect example of why the server shouldn't have predators. The predators can't be trusted to RP in a realistic manner, nor can the COs be trusted to respond in a realistic manner.

There were like 8 separate nonsense decisions you made during that story.

1) Cloning the damn thing to begin with

2) Isolating yourself with it in your office

3) Giving back its weapons

4) Going to the hanger to look for it as the CO

5) Helping it escape instead of killing it for assaulting you

6) Giving it your ID to use instead of sending the pod yourself, from an external console.

7) Engaging the predator in melee

8) Being on the pod when it was sent down to the ground (a violation of the rules as a CO)

My biggest issue with all this besides the godawful RP is that you shared this story as a highlight of one of your best rounds as a CO, instead of a clear example of how the role should not be played.

I'm not hardheaded, I'm genuinely confused where you think these actions could be described as competent.

it was a FUN round as CO. Some explanations. I didnt engage the pred in melee, i pushed it to get my ID back. I didnt MEAN to go down, i was there to get my ID back. I didnt kill it because i couldnt kill it and OOCly i knew about the bracers they have which explode, and didnt want a breach. I clonned it because i wanted some interesting RP. I wasnt just me and it in my office, there was an MP, and two other BOs and a marine. I gave it back its weapons because it asked and i knew that if i didnt give them back i would probably die. i didnt go to the hanger to look, i went to check the pod and shuttle, and see if an engineer could fix the windows and turrets of the rasputin. the only one i cant answer is why i gave my ID to it. I think it was because the computer was broken, but i am unsure since this round happened a while ago, before i was jobbaned (and unjobbaned) from command. Now please, can you finish with the questioning? this isnt an interogation, it is a discussion about predators, and this has gone from me putting a little aecdote from a fun round to you interogating me. What can i do about it now? nothing. i can say im "sorry" for breaking the rules, but i really DIDNT break the CO rules, other then go down on the pod ACCIDENTALLY. Now, i know you like to get answers, but really, just let up. when something is done let it be done. Your not an admin, or a moderator, so why do you need to question me? you could report me i guess, but as i said this round was a few months ago. so please, Torric, just stop with it. you win. You are right, i am wrong. i can't answer everything.

[Steelpoint]

Predators are obnoxious Mary Sues that serve only to extend the round and piss people off. Their current implementation is a half baked power fantasy and they serve no real game play purpose aside from killing people unexpectedly, engage in obnoxious and unbelievable """roleplay""" with Aliens OR Humans (whoever is losing) and to extend the round by a hour or so at best.

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If I were to make one suggestion it would be to redo the whole Predator concept, I would make a new thread to detail this but the tl;dr is make Predators spawn in groups of three or so, all of them are considered to be 'unblooded' and are on their very first hunt. Issues each Predator with only basic gear and give them a Spec coin to be able to purchase only ONE high level Predator item.

Then you significantly decrease the defense values of their armour so that two or three bursts from a Sentry Gun will crit/kill the Predator. Make it impossible for a Predator to be stunned and make it nearly impossible for them to suffer a fracture and easier for them to heal organ damage.

Finally you give them a objective to collect a certain point value of skulls akin to a Space Ninja, with certain skulls having a better point value (Specialist Skulls would be worth a lot more than Standard Marine skulls for example).

Predators need to be a side antagonist faction, not a main faction that can massively influence the round. They should also be quick to die under direct fire, they should be relying on their skills to survive. Also lore wise Unblooded Predators die by the fucking truckload so I think thats a good justification, hell maybe even open up these unblooded Predators to public use and reserve other Predator content behind the whitelist.

I would go into better detail but I'm not making a thread. But the jist is the current Predator implementation sucks hard.

[doodeeda]

...

Making them have to collect skulls would also cause this unexpected killing you speak of and sad/angry players. At least currently, predators are strong and free enough to be able to focus on RP with every round being different. I agree with you that they should be able to do their job with defense/attack values on par with a strong T3 (more resistance to stun is something to look into, or they'll die as easily as a marine due to stunlock). The machete KO would also be too strong if they were made weaker. This would help in making players feel like they aren't facing an unbeatable foe potentially leading to more alien duels. The strongest weapon versus predators right now for aliens is tackle+slash spam or other stuns like a screech, and it would be nice to see just a tense slashing fight.

[Steelpoint]

I want to promote Predators to just hunt prey, get the points they need, and then leave (or get told to do something else and be rewarded for their efforts by admins).

The problem with fighting Predators is that they are nigh unstoppable. I think people would be fine with Predators killing Marines and Aliens just so long as the Predator themselves are actually killable reasonably. A Predator should be, as you noted, as strong as a Tier 3 Xenomorph, perhaps a bit stronger. Right now their a Tier 5 Elite Alien.

if the unblooded Predators as per my suggestion had near 100% stun immunity but really toned down armour then not only would battles be more interesting but it would be less tackle+spam and more slash+slash or gun+slash.

[MrJJJ]

The problem with fighting Predators is that they are nigh unstoppable. I think people would be fine with Predators killing Marines and Aliens just so long as the Predator themselves are actually killable reasonably.

Right now their a Tier 5 Elite Alien.
really toned down armour

Please, please yes, their armor is too damn much, waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much

[ParadoxSpace]

you forget that they're pretty much by themselves, plus they're more advanced than humans. them having good armor makes sense. just get in a group and shoot the damn thing over and over while being smart about it, I'm sure you could fracture some ribs

[Steelpoint]

So? Predators have gotten their ass kicked many times in the past by Humans and vice versa, they even lost a war at one point.

The problem with Predators is that their implementation seems to be trying to make them a major faction, akin to Aliens vs Marines vs Predators, which results in the few individual Predators being worth half a faction individually.

The game should be Aliens vs Marines, Predators should just be a minor faction that has a minor influence on the round. A round should not be dictated by the actions of the Predators unless its a entire game mode dedicated to featuring the Predators in a major fashion, which can be a possibility since the USMC have fought battles and even wars against Predators in the past.

I personally simply dislike how powerful a single Predator is and their massive impact on a round.

[coroneljones]

If you complain about their armor,then you dont know about the new marine tactic of "AP rounds for everything"

If you think preds are harder to kill than an Elite queen,then you havent played pred

[doodeeda]

For me, it's not about the marines but how hard it seems for aliens to kill a predator. From what I've seen, a predator can down aliens such as a ravager in 4-5 hits with a strong melee weapon like the scimitars, but a predator needs to be slashed loads of times. I do not think any predator is scared of dying when dueling an alien weaker than a strong queen in terms of slash damage, stun capability, and health. Where's the satisfaction and thrill of the hunt when it is a bore to kill aliens as you're just stronger than most of them?

[Casany]

For me, it's not about the marines but how hard it seems for aliens to kill a predator. From what I've seen, a predator can down aliens such as a ravager in 4-5 hits with a strong melee weapon like the scimitars, but a predator needs to be slashed loads of times. I do not think any predator is scared of dying when dueling an alien weaker than a strong queen in terms of slash damage, stun capability, and health. Where's the satisfaction and thrill of the hunt when it is a bore to kill aliens as you're just stronger than most of them?

You, my friend, are very very wrong. Many preds have been taken down by aliens, MANY. if its not 1v1 preds will ALWAYS lose thanks to spit spam and pounce spam and tacklespam. ive watched a pred survive all round for two spitters and a hunter to take him down.

[Toroic]

For me, it's not about the marines but how hard it seems for aliens to kill a predator. From what I've seen, a predator can down aliens such as a ravager in 4-5 hits with a strong melee weapon like the scimitars, but a predator needs to be slashed loads of times. I do not think any predator is scared of dying when dueling an alien weaker than a strong queen in terms of slash damage, stun capability, and health. Where's the satisfaction and thrill of the hunt when it is a bore to kill aliens as you're just stronger than most of them?

Pretty much this. I've seen ravagers die to preds even with other xenos around, and there's nothing obligating a pred to not just kite and shoot.

What preds should be is a death squad that automatically activates if the round goes 3 hours and attack whichever team is on the defensive at that point, with the goal of ending the game quickly.

What they do now is make xenos turtle early and meta-aid marines, or just fuck around with stupidly unbalanced "honor duels".

[Steelpoint]

Why not make the Predators we have now (the whitelisted ones) be remade into "Military Predators" (ala AvP Extinction) as a alternative Death Squad. Perhaps setting it up that they've been dispatched to clear up the planet of Xenomorph life and anyone who knows of their exsistance due to some who cares rule or code.

Otherwise my above post stands for how I think the current in round Predators should be changed into.

Maybe have a few events where you have a Blooded or Enforcer Predator sent to the planet to hunt a Bad Blood Predator, both of whom are whitelisted. The Bad Blood would be poorly equiped but they have a powerful cloaking device that remains hidden even to Predator tech whereas the Enforced Predator is well armed by Predator standards.