Remove Resin Cuffing and Legcuffing

[Skycave1]

Reread what I said. "I proposed a way cuffs won't be as debilitating.'

See, service pistols are MORE than enough to kill the Queen, sentinels, and builder castes, due to not being as tough as the castes with a more active role in combat. Also, ever hear of the one handed SMGs, and gyroscopic stabilisers which let you use a two-handed weapon one handed? What do you mean carrying two rifles? You can fit plenty of revolvers in your backpack.

They WERE enough to kill the queen when they were .45. NOW they are not as good because they were dropped to 9mm. The Service pistol is meant for a backup that isn't supposed to kill, only to deter an alien so you can run back and get properly armed. It's not worth the effort, because the queen can get you down quicker then you can kill the bitch, even with all the special tactics you know.

[MrGabol100]

Believe me when I say that as a sentinel I often encounter marines with a pistol hidden in every orifice. It's ridiculous.

Wow, did you check -EVERY- orifice?

That's too much man...

[NoShamNoWow]

Believe me when I say that as a sentinel I often encounter marines with a pistol hidden in every orifice. It's ridiculous.

>service pistol
>more than enough
>to kill a queen
>...
I cant stop laughing.

[Boltersam]

They WERE enough to kill the queen when they were .45. NOW they are not as good because they were dropped to 9mm. The Service pistol is meant for a backup that isn't supposed to kill, only to deter an alien so you can run back and get properly armed. It's not worth the effort, because the queen can get you down quicker then you can kill the bitch, even with all the special tactics you know.

That's for a single marine, think more about a hoard of infected marines breaking out, with revolvers and SMGs and service pistols all over. With enough people concentrating fire, it will take down anything, especially if you have AP rounds and a mag strap.

[Skycave1]

Wow, did you check -EVERY- orifice?

That's too much man...

MFW you need to check Orifices now because it counts as powergaming if used

[Boltersam]

Wow, did you check -EVERY- orifice?

That's too much man...

I can't physically check, but from the amount they keep pulling out of undefined areas, I'm inclined to believe so.

[Skycave1]

That's for a single marine, think more about a hoard of infected marines breaking out, with revolvers and SMGs and service pistols all over. With enough people concentrating fire, it will take down anything, especially if you have AP rounds and a mag strap.

Well IF there are many marines that can do damage, the queen can screech, because she'll most likely not be in combat if she's watching the HIVE.

[Boltersam]

>service pistol
>more than enough
>to kill a queen
>...
I cant stop laughing.

Kiting, and hordes of pistol-toting marines.

[Boltersam]

Well IF there are many marines that can do damage, the queen can screech, because she'll most likely not be in combat if she's watching the HIVE.

The screech range isn't that big, despite what people are inclined to believe.

[Skycave1]

Well IF there are many marines that can do damage, the queen can screech, because she'll most likely not be in combat if she's watching the HIVE.

The screech range isn't that big, despite what people are inclined to believe.[/quote]

The queen is usually being guarded by 2-3 aliens. So, if she screeches, many marines will freeze. The QUEEN can take the men on the ground, and the other aliens can go for the rest.

Please, I think I've clocked more hours then you.

[forwardslashN]

The concept shouldn't be "Your nested you already lost' No, there is always a chance to escape being nested, Aliens shouldn't win right there and then by nesting you- the fight should still continue on.

I disagree with you, and I think that's what the concept should be, and what we had before the alien restraints was ridiculous. With that said, I actually support this suggestion because I think alien restraints that you have to break out of in addition to the nest is just silly, not to mention the nest should be the restraint itself. Moreover, it is entirely too easy to hug and nest a marine, and with alien restraints there is really no counter play involved. I don't think inability to drag objects is really that big of a deal, too. So +1 from me.

[Boltersam]

Well IF there are many marines that can do damage, the queen can screech, because she'll most likely not be in combat if she's watching the HIVE.

The screech range isn't that big, despite what people are inclined to believe.[/quote]

The queen is usually being guarded by 2-3 aliens. So, if she screeches, many marines will freeze. The QUEEN can take the men on the ground, and the other aliens can go for the rest.

Please, I think I've clocked more hours then you.[/quote]
Please, you're thinking of a perfect hive. People don't guard the Queen unless ordered to. People want to play the game, not follow someone around, guarding them when time would be better spent hunting marines, and the Queen won't kill the men on the ground, and neither will her escorts. They can all deal with one person at a time, and everyone else will just get up and keep firing at the Aliens.

When did this thread become an argument on who would win: immune to hugger marines armed with tons of hidden guns, or a Queen and an escort of three lesser aliens, supposing she has one.

[Killaninja12]

+1
Please get back on the topic at hand here. Either way, I think it should be reverted back to the way it was prior.

[Boltersam]

+1
Please get back on the topic at hand here. Either way, I think it should be reverted back to the way it was prior.

Look at my earlier proposal on makinfpg cuffs less effective by simply lengthening the resist time of getting out of s nest, but being destroyed after you break out. Less debilitating, but if a drone or queen can be bothered to spare the plasma for it, it'll help to guard the hosts.

[Jack McIntyre]

+1 I already talked with staff in our chat, but I am all for support we revert back.

Yea Boltersam we know support the cuffs, but if you copy and paste what others say and try to say just look at my answer for it. We already have gone through the topic, and I still say revert back.

[Azmodan412]

I honestly like this update. According to really the only way for xenos to keep marines nested, aka checkerboards, and the added distraction of talking, dealing with a predator, and opening doors to try and RNGesus tackle marines down... Yea, it is a real shitshow for xenos so I would have to give this a -1 Feel free to spark a shitstorm about this, but this is my opinion.

[coroneljones]

+1 for a revert as said before
A few other options would be longer embryo time,make huggers uncarriable by any xeno minus a carrier,forcing xenos to take marines to the eggs,maybe a hugger AI,Minor,for any infectable creature near an egg,and maybe a paingrab since xenos cant stun a marine with huggers during combat
Maybe its just me,but just some ideas

But yea,removing the ability to pull things isnt a nerf at all,the rules already state that they cant pull stuff for cover

[NoShamNoWow]

I honestly like this update. According to really the only way for xenos to keep marines nested, aka checkerboards, and the added distraction of talking, dealing with a predator, and opening doors to try and RNGesus tackle marines down... Yea, it is a real shitshow for xenos so I would have to give this a -1 Feel free to spark a shitstorm about this, but this is my opinion.

Not really trying to spark a shitstorm again but I already have a point to this. Its not suppose to be easy for aliens to keep hosts down at all or there is no role for sentinels other than be a range caste. Again, they have spit that can easily keep a host down, plus its not really RNG to keep them down, its just 1-4 disarms usually to get someone down. Really tired of stating my points over and over. Preds are also not going to just barge in the hive murderboning, so they are not a variable at play here, and talking isn't really either. I have played alien enough and dealt with hosts with ease.

[Tristan63]

They did say they were adding in xeno updates and a few new "toys" for the marines and aliens. Might be in preparation for this but im not entirely sure, either way its a pretty shit update.

+1

[Sikillgard]

A little neutral, my thoughts are:

Is this an argument over whether a nested marine is a continuation of the game or a failure state?

Should marines be entitled to a reasonable chance to be freed? by themselves?

Also, with restraints, I predict that marines will suicide far likelier than try to escape. That in itself can be considered worse for xenoes ->definite termination of larva. So xenoes have to camp as hard as before.
This means little has changed other than their safety (hard to shoot up the hive with legcuffs eh?); the painfully boring mini-game of "whack a marine" is still there.

[Zilenan91]

I could see this be an actually decent addition if not every single fucking alien could hold facehuggers to instantly end you after you go down, and then ensure you can't escape because you're stuck resisting out for 10 minutes.

Also no Sentinel spit CANNOT keep a host down. It recharges far too slowly and doesn't stun long enough to re-nest someone who walked even a few tiles away from their nest. Thinking that Sentinels can keep MULTIPLE infected people down is laughable.

[Abbysynth]

This isn't going to happen, for a number of reasons. Maybe I didn't explain my reasoning behind this addition well enough.

Number one, consider what happens 99% of the time a marine gets nested - they get infected, they wake up, they resist, and xenos have to either box them in with walls or constantly stand there, sometimes directly on top of them, to make sure they don't escape in the middle of their HQ. In the rare chance a marine doesn't have someone guarding them, and has weapons left, they might get 5-10 seconds of brief, stupid freedom before being tackled and dragged back again. Nothing like this ever happened in any of the movies, books, comics, or games. Once you're nested, you're done, unless someone else comes and frees you.

Sentinels are NOT a nest-guarding caste gamewise. They are lore-wise, but here they mainly fill the niche of a projectile caste, which is necessary to deal with things like sentries, snipers, and so on. They aren't required to guard anything unless the Queen tells them to. They should be, since they are good at it - why should we force players who don't enjoy nest-guarding to do it? If the job can be done with half the xenos then it should be, and let the people who play xeno to fight on the front lines go and do so.

You still have about exactly the same kind of chances to get out of the nest now - MORE so than before, probably, since there are less guards, less checkerboards, and less paranoia about the nest being dangerous. Rescues are much more rewarding.

Let's face it, if you're the kind of player who enjoys going on brief, pointless Yakkity Sax runs in the Xeno hive then you're not going to like this update. Sometimes stuff happens that you don't like but is required for the enjoyment of ALL players, not just you. Xenos can no longer drag off your flares, SADARs, sniper rifles, generators, unsecured turrets.. This is HUGE, and yet all this complaining is about something that, all things considered, really makes no difference. You were only going to ever escape before if you weren't being watched. That is exactly what can still happen. It only takes 20 extra seconds to get out of those cuffs.

[TopHatPenguin]

I don't exactly play much anymore, however here is a compromise (Perhaps):
You could make it so that aliens have to create these 'cuffs' on nested marines to lengthen the nest timer, however it will destroy the nest when the marine breaks out.
Basically:
-Marine is nested.
-Alien player decides to 'cuff' marine in the nest, which increases the nest escape timer.(Allowing for less sentinels needed at the hive for nesting procedures.)
(as you know more resin goo being put on top of you, which could be sprited to look like when the marines are stuck on the walls in resin, like this kind of but more resin goop to make it look like the marine is encased in it perhaps? )
-After a while the marine breaks free from the lengthened nest timer which breaks the nest and the 'cuffs' so they have freedom of movement, which allows the potential for escape.

I mean to be honest you could just replace the cuffs with a 'hardened' outer nesting layer or resin goop.

[Artouris]

Time to write in my opinion on this. (which is +1)

First of all coming in I thought this was a neat idea. But what i thought this was, was a type of reinforced nesting. So basically you add another you know 40 seconds or whatever to the nested marine. However on the other hand i have discovered to be horribly worse. Before i continue, let me address the concerns because they are actually without purpose.

To all xeno players, if you say marines with all types of guns out of every slot is stupid. Marines don't do that, and the ones that do are usually the ones who get nested first or retreat. I have yet to see a marine have more than at most 3 guns on them. We can talk about abstractions all day long when it comes to how much shit you can put in your loadout. It doesn't mean its the reality. Xenos have a high tackle chance to start with that will put down marines fairly quickly. Not to mention greater speed among other things on weeds. Its not a question IF but a question WHEN will a xeno tackle you down when your free. Its not that hard, the problem is that xenos have learned to become too overtly reliant on huggers to do their job properly. That is not a fault of the marines, that is a fault of the xenos who don't know how to tackle or stun people without using huggers. The pistol is still pretty bad, but you can kill anything given enough ammo and no weeds so once again we're talking about abstractions that might occasionally happen, but they're clearly not the norm or reality of the server.

Now, I as I said, i thought this was added nesting, but it turns out they're actual leg and hand cuffs. This is overpowering as shit. If we're going to be honest, why not just flat out ghost us at this point once we're nested. At least then we're being honest. If there is even ONE, ONE, i say xeno watching the hosts. There is no chance for any marine to escape. Because you have to stand still to uncuff yourself, which means even if a group of marines is captured and put in a nesting ROOM. They will still be incapable of escaping. If they all broke out at once, they still have a low chance of escaping because at least one of them has to uncuff themselves and then unnest and uncuff the others there. Which is a longer process. Which is impossible because you have to be moving the whole time to avoid being tackled and nested once again. I have yet to see a time when there wasn't at least one xeno watching over the marines. There's no chance to even kill oneself, and that was already hard before this update, now its literally impossible.

I can understand making it harder to break out because i do see it from the xeno side as annoying. However there are better ways to go about this. I don't know what ways I will say first of all. But I'm sure if we all brainstormed we could figure something out that is fair-er to both sides. I would honestly rather just ghosted at this point because then we're being honest about this. We're not beating around the bush then.

EDIT: Also adding this because there were some posts above me.

20 seconds longer, is a hell of a lot longer considering its 20 Byond Lag Seconds. Which is hella longer than 20 actual seconds. Xenos appearntly still can pulls things form when i was playing in the server half an hour earlier. Now i understand that will be fixed. Dragging things away is not that big of a bloody problem. Sure SADARs and shit would go missing, but once you leave your equipment to do that, or get stuned, a xeno can already put acid on it to start with and the same shit happens. So unless we start making acid proof weapons then that update doesnt do as much.

[Disco Dalek]

If I remember correctly, the original suggestion was that marines could be cuffed by xenos for transport. These cuffs would disappear after the marine was nested. The most important part of this suggestion (or at least the discussion about it) was that xenos would no longer be able to carry huggers. That's pretty much the only reason most of its supporters believed it was balanced.