I deleted the I'm Disappointed Thread

[crono23]

Ban the people who cause this drama to happen.

What will that solve? It may immediately silence the main problem causers, but as you may have seen with Skycave, even respected members of the community can start a storm. Banning is just a temporary fix.

Or they will be the ones who ruin this community forever.

Maybe so, but they're not always angry for no reason. What's really going to ruin this community is by ignoring and only occasionally addressing the underlying problems, rather than actually fix them.

[Feweh]

What will that solve? It may immediately silence the main problem causers, but as you may have seen with Skycave, even respected members of the community can start a storm. Banning is just a temporary fix.
Maybe so, but they're not always angry for no reason. What's really going to ruin this community is by ignoring and only occasionally addressing the underlying problems, rather than actually fix them.

We're 100% open to civil discussion and criticism.

What Skycave did is an example of the self-entitled shitposting attitude that will have you removed from the community.

Honestly, I think shit sucks all the time.
I just speak to the dev's in a normal tone and it does get fixed. Look at the weeds, people offered suggestions towards them and theyve been changed 3 times now
... about to be 4 shortly.

[Steelpoint]

I think this is a classic case of a few sour apples spoiling it for everyone.

[apophis775]

Pretty much. I'm hoping that if we can just stem this drama for a few weeks so that staff and other people will recover a little bit and cool down so that we can approach this again from a better angle. I mean, if this were real life, I'd say that we schedule a meeting a few weeks later to address the situation again, because the first meeting got too heated. But it's the internet and I can't really do that.

[coolsurf6]

I think this is a classic case of a few sour apples spoiling it for everyone.

Thats a pretty good analogy.

We're 100% open to civil discussion and criticism.

What Skycave did is an example of the self-entitled shitposting attitude that will have you removed from the community.

Honestly, I think shit sucks all the time.
I just speak to the dev's in a normal tone and it does get fixed. Look at the weeds, people offered suggestions towards them and theyve been changed 3 times now
... about to be 4 shortly.

Sorry for that little rant i just had... What i think needs to be done is to just let go of whats happening and in the future stop it from spreading. Maybe a forum rule update that can help stop alot of the drama. I just play the game casually because I've gotten so many new games and with the "Aliens are too op" and "Preds are dumb" crap i just want to wait for things to be fixed. So the only things that i have been doing is hopping on the forums everyday and reading. I noticed some of the drama and i just didn't go into the general discussion and only in bugs, suggestions and some others. I don't usually voice my opinions that often and it will stay that way.

Before i finish off i just hope that this can be fixed in the future. I never looked into the pred issue and the aliens are just bad the way i use is just bad in general.

[Adjective]

And my "Stop Complaining" thread was locked pffftt.

[Ocnjak20]

Pretty much. I'm hoping that if we can just stem this drama for a few weeks so that staff and other people will recover a little bit and cool down so that we can approach this again from a better angle. I mean, if this were real life, I'd say that we schedule a meeting a few weeks later to address the situation again, because the first meeting got too heated. But it's the internet and I can't really do that.

Apop you are the Host and the Owner of the server. The hell are you talking about? Start schooling them and hiring people with their own opinion, begin acting like one team and inform each other on what you do because clearly there is lack of communication. Some people are way too active to remain on their current positions while others arent active at all and deserve to be replaced.

And please stop firing people for ridiculous reasons. Community deserves to know what is going on within the staff team since there would not be staff team if there was no community to be honest. I am not starting drama, shitstorm or shitposting but am trying to point out things that are bad at the moment on the server and have to be fixed.

[LordLoko]

Brb preparing popcorn, dis gon be gud

[Feweh]

And please stop firing people for ridiculous reasons. Community deserves to know what is going on within the staff team since there would not be staff team if there was no community to be honest. I am not starting drama, shitstorm or shitposting but am trying to point out things that are bad at the moment on the server and have to be fixed.

Actually, you're wrong.

This is a free game, hosted for free, run for free, developed for free and paid for by one individual.
As obvious, APOP owns the following /// owns the code, server-box, forums, and domain. (Code is closed source, no one can just start a new CM like other ss13 servers)
The only person with any entitlement is actually APOP himself who by all legal and civil means has the rights to do anything he really feels like.

Technically speaking, the community actually has no "rights" at all really. It's a privilege that you can play this game, it's a privilege that the Dev teams updates the community, it's a privilege to have Mods/Admins and it's a privilege to even have this thread open to discussion.

Players aren't providing any service in return that actually benefits the server other than playing on it, which once again is provided 100% free to everyone.
The entire reason the community has formed is because the game is free and provide at no cost to any individual.

To address your point with "firing staff for ridiculous reasons".

It's completely ridiculous to assume that APOP or "we" remove staff for no reason.
However, as I said... Even if someone was just removed for "no reason" it's completely within APOP's rights to do as he pleases.

Part of understanding this is purely maturity and life experience.
The older you are the grander experiences and understanding you have of how the world operates. If APOP was to remove me today simply because "he felt like it", I would understand and chalk that up as shitty but nothing I can really do. Where as younger children, kids and teens don't fully grasp a understanding of this as their lives have generally at this point been very "given" to them.

Furthermore, just to really hit this on the head and end it.
When you buy a game from Ubisoft and pay 60$ for it. Do you then think you "deserve" to know whats going on with the development of the game, or who the staff team fires/hires?
Of course you don't, it never crosses your mind once. Yet shouldn't it? Shouldn't you feel more entitled considering you just dropped 60$ on their video-game? As well, if someone was fired from Ubisoft most peoples automatic assumption would be "well it was probably for a good reason".

How about our whole ban system?
You got Best-Buy and starting yelling screaming and telling employees there to suck your dick. You don't think they'd ban you from the store even thought you might potentially spend money in the future? You don't even spend money on CM and will perma-ban you for way worse shit AND STILL give you a chance to appeal that perma ban and return! You have more chances and rights on a free-game than a store you'd spend money in!

Yet here is Colonial Marines, a game provided for free with no returned services from 95% of the player-base and all we ask is you follow the rules and be respectful.
Somehow, even with that said... players still believe they have a "right" to know whats going on DEV wise, Staff Wise etc? Why is that when you don't have those expectations with games you pay for?

So I'm sorry, but when you say you "deserve" things it's completely and utterly a form of self-entitlement.
What is self entitlement?

Self Entitlement
The false feeling that someone inherently deserves something despite not having done anything to earn it.
Ex 1: Jane got offended when her parents asked her to do some chores around the house because she felt self entitled to the free room and board she had been given for the last 13 years of her life.


In closing to this post.

Part of the reason we're at such a toxic point is because APOP is actually a good guy, most servers ban/delete anything negative or criticism related immediately.
He has for the longest time graciously been fair, understanding and very community oriented compared to most other servers where the player-base is very pacified and hushed.
Unfortunately by doing this the community became very self-righteous and entitled.

Now by no means am I saying APOP or we as a Staff team even have the "fuck it we do what we want attitude". We are very open to criticism and civil discussion... everyone knows you can always alert me on discord and I'll talk to you on a personal level. Generally when you hear people say "I got banned for no reason", "I was removed from staff for no reason" etc... it's often just generally self-players who are refusing to acknowledge the basics. By all means, we give our player-base loads of rights, chances and a social platform to discuss the game.. which is far more than you get from most companies.

This post isn't directed at 90% of the community, in fact if you read this and disagree/get offended you most likely falling into that 10% vocal self-entitled minority that I just summed up above.
All I'm saying is there is a method to our madness.

[apophis775]

Apop you are the Host and the Owner of the server. The hell are you talking about? Start schooling them and hiring people with their own opinion, begin acting like one team and inform each other on what you do because clearly there is lack of communication. Some people are way too active to remain on their current positions while others arent active at all and deserve to be replaced.

And please stop firing people for ridiculous reasons. Community deserves to know what is going on within the staff team since there would not be staff team if there was no community to be honest. I am not starting drama, shitstorm or shitposting but am trying to point out things that are bad at the moment on the server and have to be fixed.

Firstly, between staff that need it, we have proper communication channels and distribution of information. Lower level staff (I.E. Mentors) typically don't get all the information because they don't have real authority to do things like ban. For them, if there's an issue that comes up regarding rules or grief, they are supposed to call in a moderator or admin.

Second, we've never fired ANYONE for a ridiculous reason, and I take offense to that. Literally, anyone we've fired has always been the result of weeks of behavior/issues and lengthy staff discussions in headstaff concerning what we should do about it.

I know a LOT of people liked KeyWii, but if you want the truth, he had become too aggressive, inappropriate, and combative with staff over the last several weeks. Not in the staff-chat, where that's allowed, but ON THE SERVER. He frequently argued with higher ranking staff and criticized their decisions concerning thing in a round as soon as it happened stating how it should have been. But at the same time, he REFUSED to make any effort to move up to a position where his opinion on things like that would matter. I asked several head-staff to approach him about it, and they did and nothing changed. I even called him out on how inappropriate he was being one day with a lewd comment he made and his response was "it's true" and he continued.

Those are some of the things that went into our decision to remove him. At one point, KeyWii was one of our very TOP mentors, but his behavior and actions slowly went downhill over the course of a few weeks resulting in the action that we had to take.

[LordeKilly]

I dont see a point in this thread. It's turning into the same shit where people are continuing to salt and be angry with eachother.

[coolsurf6]

I dont see a point in this thread. It's turning into the same shit where people are continuing to salt and be angry with eachother.

Its to just lock all the salt to one thread. And so the staff and players alike can express what they feel about the server and where its heading.

[apophis775]

Well, if this gets too salty, I'll delete the salt and lock the thread.

[Ocnjak20]

Actually, you're wrong.

This is a free game, hosted for free, run for free, developed for free and paid for by one individual.
As obvious, APOP owns the following /// owns the code, server-box, forums, and domain. (Code is closed source, no one can just start a new CM like other ss13 servers)
The only person with any entitlement is actually APOP himself who by all legal and civil means has the rights to do anything he really feels like.

Technically speaking, the community actually has no "rights" at all really. It's a privilege that you can play this game, it's a privilege that the Dev teams updates the community, it's a privilege to have Mods/Admins and it's a privilege to even have this thread open to discussion.

Players aren't providing any service in return that actually benefits the server other than playing on it, which once again is provided 100% free to everyone.
The entire reason the community has formed is because the game is free and provide at no cost to any individual.

To address your point with "firing staff for ridiculous reasons".

It's completely ridiculous to assume that APOP or "we" remove staff for no reason.
However, as I said... Even if someone was just removed for "no reason" it's completely within APOP's rights to do as he pleases.

Part of understanding this is purely maturity and life experience.
The older you are the grander experiences and understanding you have of how the world operates. If APOP was to remove me today simply because "he felt like it", I would understand and chalk that up as shitty but nothing I can really do. Where as younger children, kids and teens don't fully grasp a understanding of this as their lives have generally at this point been very "given" to them.

Furthermore, just to really hit this on the head and end it.
When you buy a game from Ubisoft and pay 60$ for it. Do you then think you "deserve" to know whats going on with the development of the game, or who the staff team fires/hires?
Of course you don't, it never crosses your mind once. Yet shouldn't it? Shouldn't you feel more entitled considering you just dropped 60$ on their video-game? As well, if someone was fired from Ubisoft most peoples automatic assumption would be "well it was probably for a good reason".

How about our whole ban system?
You got Best-Buy and starting yelling screaming and telling employees there to suck your dick. You don't think they'd ban you from the store even thought you might potentially spend money in the future? You don't even spend money on CM and will perma-ban you for way worse shit AND STILL give you a chance to appeal that perma ban and return! You have more chances and rights on a free-game than a store you'd spend money in!

Yet here is Colonial Marines, a game provided for free with no returned services from 95% of the player-base and all we ask is you follow the rules and be respectful.
Somehow, even with that said... players still believe they have a "right" to know whats going on DEV wise, Staff Wise etc? Why is that when you don't have those expectations with games you pay for?

So I'm sorry, but when you say you "deserve" things it's completely and utterly a form of self-entitlement.
What is self entitlement?

Self Entitlement
The false feeling that someone inherently deserves something despite not having done anything to earn it.
Ex 1: Jane got offended when her parents asked her to do some chores around the house because she felt self entitled to the free room and board she had been given for the last 13 years of her life.


In closing to this post.

Part of the reason we're at such a toxic point is because APOP is actually a good guy, most servers ban/delete anything negative or criticism related immediately.
He has for the longest time graciously been fair, understanding and very community oriented compared to most other servers where the player-base is very pacified and hushed.
Unfortunately by doing this the community became very self-righteous and entitled.

Now by no means am I saying APOP or we as a Staff team even have the "fuck it we do what we want attitude". We are very open to criticism and civil discussion... everyone knows you can always alert me on discord and I'll talk to you on a personal level. Generally when you hear people say "I got banned for no reason", "I was removed from staff for no reason" etc... it's often just generally self-players who are refusing to acknowledge the basics. By all means, we give our player-base loads of rights, chances and a social platform to discuss the game.. which is far more than you get from most companies.

This post isn't directed at 90% of the community, in fact if you read this and disagree/get offended you most likely falling into that 10% vocal self-entitled minority that I just summed up above.
All I'm saying is there is a method to our madness.

I get everything from above, and I am kind of sad that you have that kind of opinion about the people and community. People that deserve to be banned should be banned, those that deserve to be stripped they should be stripped. But to have such opinion about community "Hey we do all the work and fuck you, you are playing here for free, sooner or later you will end up banned." I must say that you would not be here without us, so yes it brings me to conclusion that community has the right to know about the staff buisness and what is going on, especially when someone as active as KeyWii gets stripped. Its not "Salt" or anything but trying to figure out will it ever be possible to know anything besides what we already know and how much we hear from the other people.

[Ocnjak20]

Firstly, between staff that need it, we have proper communication channels and distribution of information. Lower level staff (I.E. Mentors) typically don't get all the information because they don't have real authority to do things like ban. For them, if there's an issue that comes up regarding rules or grief, they are supposed to call in a moderator or admin.

Second, we've never fired ANYONE for a ridiculous reason, and I take offense to that. Literally, anyone we've fired has always been the result of weeks of behavior/issues and lengthy staff discussions in headstaff concerning what we should do about it.

I know a LOT of people liked KeyWii, but if you want the truth, he had become too aggressive, inappropriate, and combative with staff over the last several weeks. Not in the staff-chat, where that's allowed, but ON THE SERVER. He frequently argued with higher ranking staff and criticized their decisions concerning thing in a round as soon as it happened stating how it should have been. But at the same time, he REFUSED to make any effort to move up to a position where his opinion on things like that would matter. I asked several head-staff to approach him about it, and they did and nothing changed. I even called him out on how inappropriate he was being one day with a lewd comment he made and his response was "it's true" and he continued.

Those are some of the things that went into our decision to remove him. At one point, KeyWii was one of our very TOP mentors, but his behavior and actions slowly went downhill over the course of a few weeks resulting in the action that we had to take.

I get it Apop and if it has hurt you then accept my apollogy, I have meant only to try and suggest some stuff as in when you strip someone or ban them to post a feedback on the forums. In that way you would avoid rumors in the community that those people can start to damage your reputation and reputation of your staff members, but it has escalated into you getting pissed off and Feweh giving me a lession which means that you guys do care about what happens and I am satisfied with that. I have made few pin points in reply to Feweh what I would like to see on the forums and I hope that the rest of community agrees with me.

In that way nobody would spread rumors or false accusations about why they were stripped/banned. I would also suggest only to do it for perma bans since it would be pointless to do it for all the bans that you issue.

[Adjective]

Please don't double post. I have and always will hate that.

[apophis775]

It wasn't a double-post.

[Desolane900]

No disappointment allowed!

[Warnipple]

Hey, just wanted to pipe in and say that I support deleting a thread where all they do is circle jerk about how much they dislike some aspect of the game.

The points that Feweh gave in an long above post is completely agreeable. This server doesn't have a paywall so naturally it'll attract the toxic players/behaviour more easily than those with a paywall. I don't see a reason to nurture that toxic behaviour/thought on the public forums dedicated to talking about the game making the game more enjoyable.

Not only would such a thread create more antagonism for the server/game, I imagine it would be a pain to read from a developers perspective being told by someone with no knowledge of the code that their product is inferior. That being said, the ways to start a change to the game are readily available on this forum through the Suggestions section which would be more effective than simply complaining about it. If you have a problem with the game then suggest a change, don't complain and ask for something better because there is no work involved in your part.

Anyway I just realized that this thread will soon turn into a circle jerk of how much we love the server and that is not my intention, to start another circle jerk.

I just agree with the deletion of a negative thread.