Buff Sentinels

[Wickedtemp]

+1
Got stuck as a Sentinel once. The only useful thing it gets with upgrades is a larger plasma storage and faster plasma regen. Want to acid something? Young Spitter Acid > Ancient Sentinel Acid. Sentinels are forever stuck at 'weak acid'. At Mature or Elite rank, they should have stronger corrosive acid, and access to the ranged acidic spit, however it shouldn't do as much damage as a Spitter of the same 'maturity'.

There really is no argument, Ancient Runner > Ancient Sentinel. While Sentinels ARE primarily supposed to be defensive/support, normally to be used to guard the captured marines, they need to have at least SOME offensive capability other than a 1-3 second long stun. Cause with the way the Runner evolution tree works right now? There's no real objective best. You could stay as a Runner and whoop ass if you need to, you go to Hunter and do the same, as with Ravager and Crusher. But for Sentinels, the Spitters are objectively better in pretty much every way possible, even with upgrades, because Sentinels lack the range of utility that Spitters have, with stronger corrosive acid and the ranged acidic spit.

So... I'd say, have the Sentinels unlock stronger corrosive acid and the acid spit at... Mature - Elite, around that range. Spitters would still do more damage, however.

[oprayx73]

So what you're actually saying is that you've never played a Sentinel.

At the very least you've never played a Sentinel vs a Runner.

If you actually knew what you where talking about you would be able to compose something better than two sentences,
anyway, its incredibly clear that sentinel is a defence caste. Meant to defend the hive, or barrage the marines from a distance.
I've been ancient on spitter atleast three times now, of course it's not going to be as good as the dedicated combat caste you meme.
ancient sentinel can literally spit two balls on the screen without moving, that's incredibly godlike. All these xeno buffs have apparently
numbed your expectations and you know think everything should be suber op.

[oprayx73]

If you actually knew what you where talking about you would be able to compose something better than two sentences,
anyway, its incredibly clear that sentinel is a defence caste. Meant to defend the hive, or barrage the marines from a distance.
I've been ancient on spitter atleast three times now, of course it's not going to be as good as the dedicated combat caste you meme.
ancient sentinel can literally spit two balls on the screen without moving, that's incredibly godlike. All these xeno buffs have apparently
numbed your expectations and you know think everything should be suber op.

spit ROF increases DRAMATICALLY, and their only downside on "plasma regen" is that being injured at all will cripple your regenning. DUH.
that's good balance, dont get shot and take decisive shots, sorry you cant be a loose cannon and spam.

[Surrealistik]

If you actually knew what you where talking about you would be able to compose something better than two sentences,
anyway, its incredibly clear that sentinel is a defence caste. Meant to defend the hive, or barrage the marines from a distance.
I've been ancient on spitter atleast three times now, of course it's not going to be as good as the dedicated combat caste you meme.
ancient sentinel can literally spit two balls on the screen without moving, that's incredibly godlike. All these xeno buffs have apparently
numbed your expectations and you know think everything should be suber op.

The fact that you literally claimed that Sentinels are "EASILY the most useful" (your words) clearly shows that you have no clue whatsoever.

Your fire rate is shit (until later upgrades), your effective fire rate is shit (because your plasma regen is shit), your stun duration is shit, while you're completely useless off weeds, and if you take even a sliver of damage, your already ass effective fire rate becomes even worse. Guess what's amazingly effective, is situationally better than T2s and T3s, and has none of these problems while being a T1? That's right, the Ancient Runner.

If Runner is to be considered the gold standard of T1 balance, then Sentinels clearly need buffs.


Also, I prefer Marines, and have proposed nerfs for Alien shit that actually needs it (such as resin cuff cancer and facehugger spam) so you can get out of here with nonsense accusations of Xeno bias.

[RoswellRay]

Not sure on this one. While I haven't played as xenos much since the update I can say that sentinals and spitters are probably my most feared aliens as marine. Marines push back entire waves of t-3's chase them down and kill 'em, but once the're being bombarded by spit it's a white different ballgame,everything is ten times riskier.

[Rey]

Sentinels are pretty robust in one on one situations, especially with 2 huggers in their hands(which is absolute cancer mind you).
The update made them even more viable allowing them to upgrade(if they so desire, I wouldn't) and honestly I don't see why t1's should be any more powerful than they are.
I'm already sick of all the stun locking spitters and praetorians so why should we add another one to the list? I just think it makes sense for there to be a 'throwaway' caste before you evolve.

[oprayx73]

The fact that you literally claimed that Sentinels are "EASILY the most useful" (your words) clearly shows that you have no clue whatsoever.

Your fire rate is shit (until later upgrades), your effective fire rate is shit (because your plasma regen is shit), your stun duration is shit, while you're completely useless off weeds, and if you take even a sliver of damage, your already ass effective fire rate becomes even worse. Guess what's amazingly effective, is situationally better than T2s and T3s, and has none of these problems while being a T1? That's right, the Ancient Runner.

If Runner is to be considered the gold standard of T1 balance, then Sentinels clearly need buffs.


Also, I prefer Marines, and have proposed nerfs for Alien shit that actually needs it (such as resin cuff cancer and facehugger spam) so you can get out of here with nonsense accusations of Xeno bias.

The premise of your claim is wrong. Have you ever played the xenos pre-buff? Spitting was INCREDIBLY slow. Aliens were given the biggest bone ever and now spitting is superfast.
Rate of fire is not crap, whatever planet you are on, it takes probably 2.5 seconds to fire a spit at ANY level of maturity. dont understand how thats bad at all,
plasma regen is actually quite rough at first, but thats simply because you're not meant to be a god of spamming everything, you have to decisively spit down hosts and put them back in the nest.
dont get hit, and enjoy lobbing spit. sorry you can't shrug off bullets as easily as you'd like to. stun durations are not meant to be super duper long, they are good to immobilize and disrupt marines
(make them drop their gun, fall and get hugged, tackled, etc) aswell as the toxin that comes with it, and pretty much most xenos that use a verb are bad off weeds. How suprising.

also, i meant your xeno bias. It's clear that you want to bring the aliens to the next level (which they already have been given) through recent updates. Sentinels are fine where they are.

[Surrealistik]

The premise of your claim is wrong. Have you ever played the xenos pre-buff? Spitting was INCREDIBLY slow. Aliens were given the biggest bone ever and now spitting is superfast.
Rate of fire is not crap, whatever planet you are on, it takes probably 2.5 seconds to fire a spit at ANY level of maturity. dont understand how thats bad at all,
plasma regen is actually quite rough at first, but thats simply because you're not meant to be a god of spamming everything, you have to decisively spit down hosts and put them back in the nest.

What are you talking about?

Sentinel spit rates are crap, even without plasma limitations. Once those come into play, and they quickly do, your effective spit rate is shit tier. A Sentinel that can't spit is useless.

Basically, you think that the ability of Sentinels to camp Marines at the nest, literally the easiest job possible, makes them somehow competitive with Runners that can do the same job while actually being good off-weeds.

dont get hit, and enjoy lobbing spit. sorry you can't shrug off bullets as easily as you'd like to. stun durations are not meant to be super duper long, they are good to immobilize and disrupt marines
(make them drop their gun, fall and get hugged, tackled, etc) aswell as the toxin that comes with it, and pretty much most xenos that use a verb are bad off weeds. How suprising.

Sentinels aren't just bad off weeds, they're useless. Literally useless, and unlike the Praetorian and Spitter, they're not at all compensated for it vs the alternatives. Marines can help circumvent your already short stun by helping their fellows up. The 'disruption' is situationally useful at best. Also since magnetics are easily the most popular attachment, forcing gun drops isn't really a big deal.

Again, if you think a Sentinel has anything on Runners after upgrades, you literally have no clue.

A Sentinel is decent when he is A: on weeds, B: has full plasma, C: has teammates and isn't injured (just even one stray bullet will shut down the only ability that makes you worth a shit; you aren't Neo btw, so getting hit is going to happen). Runner is effective without needing any of these things.

also, i meant your xeno bias. It's clear that you want to bring the aliens to the next level (which they already have been given) through recent updates. Sentinels are fine where they are.

Oh yeah, my 'Xeno bias' is totally obvious despite the litany of marine improvements and Xeno nerfs I've lobbied for as well, clearly.

[Surrealistik]

Sentinels are pretty robust in one on one situations, especially with 2 huggers in their hands(which is absolute cancer mind you).
The update made them even more viable allowing them to upgrade(if they so desire, I wouldn't) and honestly I don't see why t1's should be any more powerful than they are.
I'm already sick of all the stun locking spitters and praetorians so why should we add another one to the list? I just think it makes sense for there to be a 'throwaway' caste before you evolve.

Do you think a Runner dualfisting facehuggers isn't more robust?

Maybe the Sentinel has a higher skill floor, but a good Runner >>>>> good Sentinel.

[Rey]

Do you think a Runner dualfisting facehuggers isn't more robust?

Maybe the Sentinel has a higher skill floor, but a good Runner >>>>> good Sentinel.

I just think they are overpowered, is all.
I'm not arguing the strength difference of runner and the sentinel either, I do think there is 0 reason to upgrade sentinel over spittter/prae though.

[Surrealistik]

The no acid spit and shit plasma pool/regen rate comes to mind.

[Wickedtemp]

I still think that giving Sentinels the ability to spit acid, as well as a stronger corrosive acid (Since they're perpetually stuck at 'Weak Acid') once they reach Mature or Elite status should fix pretty much all of my issues with Sentinels.

[oprayx73]

What are you talking about?

Sentinel spit rates are crap, even without plasma limitations. Once those come into play, and they quickly do, your effective spit rate is shit tier. A Sentinel that can't spit is useless.

Basically, you think that the ability of Sentinels to camp Marines at the nest, literally the easiest job possible, makes them somehow competitive with Runners that can do the same job while actually being good off-weeds.

Sentinels aren't just bad off weeds, they're useless. Literally useless, and unlike the Praetorian and Spitter, they're not at all compensated for it vs the alternatives. Marines can help circumvent your already short stun by helping their fellows up. The 'disruption' is situationally useful at best. Also since magnetics are easily the most popular attachment, forcing gun drops isn't really a big deal.

Again, if you think a Sentinel has anything on Runners after upgrades, you literally have no clue.

A Sentinel is decent when he is A: on weeds, B: has full plasma, C: has teammates and isn't injured (just even one stray bullet will shut down the only ability that makes you worth a shit; you aren't Neo btw, so getting hit is going to happen). Runner is effective without needing any of these things.

Oh yeah, my 'Xeno bias' is totally obvious despite the litany of marine improvements and Xeno nerfs I've lobbied for as well, clearly.

Im going to record upgrade-by-upgrade firreates

Plasma cap literally doubles from 200 to 400, to 600, eventually capping at 800.
Those are pretty decent caps and additions

level one plasma regen is quite slow, at around 12 per regen tick? still pretty balanced when you take in to account by
Mature/elite/ancient, you can get around 100 plasma in less than 20 seconds, and runner plasma regen is garbage as hell at level one too.
Sentinels can carry with them enough acid to melt a few walls off-weeds, plenty enough to spitspam and run away with TO weeds (aslong as you dont get ganged by an overwhelming force
which in that case your arguement that they are suuuuperrr inferior is false, due to the fact a runner will die in the same premises)
also, "xeno bias" as in this thread is biased, i don't see anything in it that would allow for marine counterplay against sentinels other than make them stronger instead of supplying some sort of double entendre solution
that would probably be better for both. Also, if you DESPERATELY~~~ need harm spit, go spitter. Spitter t2 caps are good, we dont need every elite sentinel getting a tool that belongs locked away and limited
by the new hive population system. It's the same reason ancient hunters/runners dont get any of rav's/chargers nice bonuses like an exoskeleton/slammingtheground.
also, escaping a mature sentinel's spitspam is hard as balls. Not to mention you must click your gun out and wield it again every time you fall (even with mag harness, the server's delay + awkward wielding = sufficient anoyyance )

In essence : sentinels serve a good disrupting, defense, and offensive acid capabiltiies (even if weak acid is slow, the fact you have the option to destroy things like lights and walls over time is great)
i'll record those spit r.o.f and put jelly regen amounts/caps in another reply

[Surrealistik]

Im going to record upgrade-by-upgrade firreates

Plasma cap literally doubles from 200 to 400, to 600, eventually capping at 800.
Those are pretty decent caps and additions

level one plasma regen is quite slow, at around 12 per regen tick? still pretty balanced when you take in to account by
Mature/elite/ancient, you can get around 100 plasma in less than 20 seconds, and runner plasma regen is garbage as hell at level one too.

Runners don't need plasma to be effective though, whereas you're entirely dependent on it. Further, regen starts at 10 / tick last I checked.

Sentinels can carry with them enough acid to melt a few walls off-weeds, plenty enough to spitspam and run away with TO weeds (aslong as you dont get ganged by an overwhelming force

On what planet is 6 shots max, assuming you don't expend any other plasma 'spit spam'?

which in that case your arguement that they are suuuuperrr inferior is false, due to the fact a runner will die in the same premises)

It's much easier for a Runner to get away, besides the fact that a Runner is effective off-weeds and isn't wholly dependent on a plasma based ability to be effective.

also, "xeno bias" as in this thread is biased, i don't see anything in it that would allow for marine counterplay against sentinels other than make them stronger instead of supplying some sort of double entendre solution

Marines have existent counterplay in the form of help intent, magnetic attachments and weed clear; also the fact that they're actually faster than Sentinels. Why would they need especial or additional counters in the case of the Sentinel when the idea is to improve since it is an underpowered caste?

Also, if you DESPERATELY~~~ need harm spit, go spitter. Spitter t2 caps are good, we dont need every elite sentinel getting a tool that belongs locked away and limited by the new hive population system.

Too bad the tier limits prevent you from becoming one as a mid-late joiner.

It's the same reason ancient hunters/runners dont get any of rav's/chargers nice bonuses like an exoskeleton/slammingtheground.

Actually according to Apop per the Town Hall, the reason why Sentinels don't have acid spit is because it's essentially a hold over from when T2s and T3s weren't limited; he agrees that they should probably have acid, but they need to add and readjust the code wholesale.

also, escaping a mature sentinel's spitspam is hard as balls. Not to mention you must click your gun out and wield it again every time you fall (even with mag harness, the server's delay + awkward wielding = sufficient anoyyance )

No it's not; you strafe and move unpredictably, and move in a squad so that Help intent instantly gets you back on your feet. Further weapon retrieval from the back is easy, and gets even easier if you have a macro.

In essence : sentinels serve a good disrupting, defense, and offensive acid capabiltiies

Nigh useless off weeds, hopelessly team dependent, and useless outside of a plasma ability they burn through far too quickly; none of these weaknesses applying to the Runner as a basis of comparison.

[Wickedtemp]

The comparison of the Spitter's ability to spit acid, along with their stronger corrosive acid to the Ravager's ability to Charge or the Crushers ability to stomp is a bit of a false equivalency. The charging and stomping abilities are mostly successful due to the size of the xeno performing them. Whereas all I'm personally suggesting to help Sentinels out is allow them to do what they already do, just expanded slightly to include an additional projectile type and make their corrosive acid not useless, once they're upgraded.

And Elite Spitter will still be better than an Elite Sentinel, but an Elite Sentinel might just be equal or better than a Young Spitter.

[oprayx73]

Runners don't need plasma to be effective though, whereas you're entirely dependent on it. Further, regen starts at 10 / tick last I checked.

pounce is arguably a great tool for gg'ing a marine in a 1v1 to escaping/chasing.
On what planet is 6 shots max, assuming you don't expend any other plasma 'spit spam'?

sentinel melt is 50. you can regen that in about 7 byond seconds at level one with weeds, and in about a minute or more off.
It's much easier for a Runner to get away, besides the fact that a Runner is effective off-weeds and isn't wholly dependent on a plasma based ability to be effective.

again, their pounce is often incredibly useful (if not nescessary at lower levels) arguably all castes at ancient deviate from standard balance and they escape their weaknesses partially.
Marines have existent counterplay in the form of help intent, magnetic attachments and weed clear; also the fact that they're actually faster than Sentinels. Why would they need especial or additional counters in the case of the Sentinel when the idea is to improve since it is an underpowered caste?

constantly having to shake up a dude whos being barraged and not being able to weild your shotty or m4a1 because of it? also, like i said, mag harnesses prevent from cheeky gun melting midfight,
they dont prevent you from spending the same awkard clicks + lag to still wield. Far from underpowered, especially with your idea of making them basically bona-fide spitters.

Too bad the tier limits prevent you from becoming one as a mid-late joiner.

that sucks mate, try joining sooner to get your favooorite~ caste's abilities. don't need to be handing it out willy nilly. elite is easy as balls to get aswell.
with this suggestion, sentinels LITERALLY become spitters. There is no seperation other than sprite. why even bother evolving other than SLIGHTLY better rate of fire?
therefore, making the t2 cap practically useless. Actually according to Apop per the Town Hall, the reason why Sentinels don't have acid spit is because it's essentially a hold over from when T2s and T3s weren't limited; he agrees that they should probably have acid, but they need to add and readjust the code wholesale.
No it's not; you strafe and move unpredictably, and move in a squad so that Help intent instantly gets you back on your feet. Further weapon retrieval from the back is easy, and gets even easier if you have a macro.

keyword : escaping. getting hit by a single projectile makes one or, by your example, TWO people stop, and then continue due to ONE projectile. once you get hit by a single projectile
(which are easy to get out there due to your rate of fire) its even easier to pin them down.
Nigh useless off weeds, hopelessly team dependent, and useless outside of a plasma ability they burn through far too quickly; none of these weaknesses applying to the Runner as a basis of comparison.

"hopelessy team dependent" *cough* every xeno ingame besides all runner evo's, even then they can't solo wolf absolutely everything.

► Show Spoiler

maybe crushers

https://youtu.be/XGsDzJKwETw
young gets 10 regen per tick, 200 total. mature gets 12 per tick, 400 total. elite gets 15 per tick, 500 total. Ancient has almost 800 total? and almost 20 regen? if i remember correctly.

[Surrealistik]

pounce is arguably a great tool for gg'ing a marine in a 1v1 to escaping/chasing.

Great tool, enhances the effectiveness of Runners, but they don't _need_ it like a Sentinel needs plasma.

sentinel melt is 50. you can regen that in about 7 byond seconds at level one with weeds, and in about a minute or more off.

Yes, and you start with a plasma capacity of 300 (which increases by 100 per Upgrade), so 6 shots, while it takes you 5 seconds to regenerate a single shot.

again, their pounce is often incredibly useful (if not nescessary at lower levels) arguably all castes at ancient deviate from standard balance and they escape their weaknesses partially.

Runners are better than Sentinels at all upgrade levels; the extent to which they're better simply becomes more prominent the higher the upgrade level.

constantly having to shake up a dude whos being barraged and not being able to weild your shotty or m4a1 because of it? also, like i said, mag harnesses prevent from cheeky gun melting midfight,
they dont prevent you from spending the same awkard clicks + lag to still wield. Far from underpowered, especially with your idea of making them basically bona-fide spitters.

that sucks mate, try joining sooner to get your favooorite~ caste's abilities. don't need to be handing it out willy nilly. elite is easy as balls to get aswell.
with this suggestion, sentinels LITERALLY become spitters. There is no seperation other than sprite. why even bother evolving other than SLIGHTLY better rate of fire?
therefore, making the t2 cap practically useless.

Spitters have a higher plasma capacity and regen rate, better acid, better melee damage (pretty sure) and a better fire rate; Sentinels and Spitters post these buffs are not equivalent.

Beyond that, as stated, between magnetics and macros, even when the Sentinel hits (and it won't always hit), you're only slightly inconvenienced.

keyword : escaping. getting hit by a single projectile makes one or, by your example, TWO people stop, and then continue due to ONE projectile. once you get hit by a single projectile
(which are easy to get out there due to your rate of fire) its even easier to pin them down.

Help intent ends Neuro stun pretty much instantly, which means the Sentinel's spit is still on cooldown while there's two Marines up and ready to kill it.

Also combat drugs such as Synaptizine makes the stun completely useless.

"hopelessy team dependent" *cough* every xeno ingame besides all runner evo's, even then they can't solo wolf absolutely everything.

► Show Spoiler

maybe crushers

Crushers, Runners, Hunters, Ravagers, Spitters, Carriers, Queen (risky as that is); all of these are workable or even strong solo.

Solo Sentinels are beginning to die, but beyond that, it's only one of their several weaknesses.

[oprayx73]

pounce is arguably a great tool for gg'ing a marine in a 1v1 to escaping/chasing.

Great tool, enhances the effectiveness of Runners, but they don't _need_ it like a Sentinel needs plasma.

sentinel melt is 50. you can regen that in about 7 byond seconds at level one with weeds, and in about a minute or more off.

Yes, and you start with a plasma capacity of 300 (which increases by 100 per Upgrade), so 6 shots, while it takes you 5 seconds to regenerate a single shot.

again, their pounce is often incredibly useful (if not nescessary at lower levels) arguably all castes at ancient deviate from standard balance and they escape their weaknesses partially.

Runners are better than Sentinels at all upgrade levels; the extent to which they're better simply becomes more prominent the higher the upgrade level.

constantly having to shake up a dude whos being barraged and not being able to weild your shotty or m4a1 because of it? also, like i said, mag harnesses prevent from cheeky gun melting midfight,
they dont prevent you from spending the same awkard clicks + lag to still wield. Far from underpowered, especially with your idea of making them basically bona-fide spitters.

that sucks mate, try joining sooner to get your favooorite~ caste's abilities. don't need to be handing it out willy nilly. elite is easy as balls to get aswell.
with this suggestion, sentinels LITERALLY become spitters. There is no seperation other than sprite. why even bother evolving other than SLIGHTLY better rate of fire?
therefore, making the t2 cap practically useless.

Spitters have a higher plasma capacity and regen rate, better acid, better melee damage (pretty sure) and a better fire rate; Sentinels and Spitters post these buffs are not equivalent.

Beyond that, as stated, between magnetics and macros, even when the Sentinel hits (and it won't always hit), you're only slightly inconvenienced.

keyword : escaping. getting hit by a single projectile makes one or, by your example, TWO people stop, and then continue due to ONE projectile. once you get hit by a single projectile
(which are easy to get out there due to your rate of fire) its even easier to pin them down.

Help intent ends Neuro stun pretty much instantly, which means the Sentinel's spit is still on cooldown while there's two Marines up and ready to kill it.

Also combat drugs such as Synaptizine makes the stun completely useless.

"hopelessy team dependent" *cough* every xeno ingame besides all runner evo's, even then they can't solo wolf absolutely everything.

► Show Spoiler

maybe crushers

Crushers, Runners, Hunters, Ravagers, Spitters, Carriers, Queen (risky as that is); all of these are workable or even strong solo.

Solo Sentinels are beginning to die, but beyond that, it's only one of their several weaknesses.

is it wrong that there's a team dependant caste? not really, dont buff sents, nerf the op dudes like you said, the gap will be much smaller and all will be beautiful

[Snypehunter007]

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