Ancient spitter rebalance.

[Dailychaos101]

I think that maybe the spit range should decrease and the spit move slower. It is spit after all, not bullets like they act now. This gives marines more of a chance to dodge and retaliate. This also makes it so spitters become more of a defensive/support caste rather than how aggressive they can be right now. Maybe even reduce the stun duration? I'm not sure, I am kind of biased because I really hate ranged stuns as it takes away one of the few strengths that marines have, range.

[BalancedGeneral]

-1

Getting to an ancient should be a reward for skilled players, and further nerfing xenos doesn't help the balance at all

[Toroic]

-1

Getting to an ancient should be a reward for skilled players, and further nerfing xenos doesn't help the balance at all

Xenos need buff guys. Super cereal.

[MrJJJ]

Not bursting anything bro, I stand by what I said. You have many choices to take down a spitter using mines, nades, bullets, snipers, dodging spit with your faster than a spitter speed, riot shields etc. Hiding behind some defenses is just one of those choices. Nerfing the stength of an ancient level xenomorph or replacing what makes it unique with another types move won't change any of that.

It only serves to make what already takes a bit more robustness easier.

Thats like saying "counter DS by punching them repeatedly", its not how this works and neither thats how you fight someone with great gear/abilities

[outordinary]

Counter what now?

[RavingManiac]

Balance issues aside, we really should try to avoid situations where one party simply gets stunlocked without any way to fight back. It's one of the most frustrating things that can happen in any game.

[Egorkor]

give marines the thermobaric SADAR lategame and blam, no more ancient spit salt because you can blow that motherfucker offa the face of the earth.

[lcass123]

+1 ancient spitters , elite spitters any spitters are horrible with their fire rate , considering they get use of the acid which they can down marines with 3 hits they really need slowing down. acid should be atleast 5 seconds between each shot because of the huge damage and neurotoxin more like 2 seconds but with a higher plasma use.

[Whistle]

Karinth Knight is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the left foot!
The ÿM41A pulse rifle MK2 snaps into place on the ÿB12 pattern leader snow armor.
Karinth Knight is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the head!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Karinth Knight!
Karinth Knight is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the chest!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Colten 'Forty-five' Muller!
Colten 'Forty-five' Muller fires the ÿM41A pulse rifle MK2 (Wielded)!
The Young Ravager (63)'s thick exoskeleton deflects the rifle bullet!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at the floor!
Colten 'Forty-five' Muller is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the groin!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Colten 'Forty-five' Muller!
Colten 'Forty-five' Muller is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the chest!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Karinth Knight!
Karinth Knight is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the groin!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Dorian Grey!
Your chest hurts badly.
PFC Dorian Grey screams in pain and drops what they were holding in their right hand!
Dorian Grey is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the left leg!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Dorian Grey!
Dorian Grey is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the left arm!
SSGT Karinth Knight says, "KILL IT"
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Colten 'Forty-five' Muller!
Colten 'Forty-five' Muller is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the chest!
SSGT Anton Petonovski [Command (SL)] says, "I got my helmet now"
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Colten 'Forty-five' Muller!
Colten 'Forty-five' Muller is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the right arm!
You grab the ÿM41A pulse rifle MK2 with both hands.
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Karinth Knight!
You fire the ÿM41A pulse rifle MK2 (Wielded)! 11/30
You are now carrying the ÿM41A pulse rifle MK2 with one hand.
Karinth Knight is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the eyes!
The ÿM41A pulse rifle MK2 snaps into place on the ÿB12 pattern leader snow armor.
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Karinth Knight!
Karinth Knight is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the groin!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Colten 'Forty-five' Muller!
Colten 'Forty-five' Muller is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the right leg!
PFC Dorian Grey cries out and drops what they were holding in their right hand!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Dorian Grey!
ÿYoung Runner (256) pounces at Dorian Grey!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Colten 'Forty-five' Muller!
Colten 'Forty-five' Muller is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the right foot!
SSGT Karinth Knight says, "NADE IT"
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Karinth Knight!
ÿÿthe alien leaps at Dorian Grey's face!
ÿÿthe alien smashes against Dorian Grey's the ÿM10 pattern marine snow helmet and rips it off!
Karinth Knight is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the right leg!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Colten 'Forty-five' Muller!
Colten 'Forty-five' Muller is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the head!
ÿÿthe alien leaps at Dorian Grey's face!
ÿÿthe alien tears the heat absorbent coif off of Dorian Grey's face!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Karinth Knight!
Karinth Knight is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the left hand!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Colten 'Forty-five' Muller!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Karinth Knight!
Karinth Knight is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the left hand!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Colten 'Forty-five' Muller!
Colten 'Forty-five' Muller is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the left leg!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Karinth Knight!
Your chest hurts badly.
Karinth Knight is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the left foot!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Colten 'Forty-five' Muller!
Colten 'Forty-five' Muller is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the right leg!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Karinth Knight!
Karinth Knight is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the groin!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Colten 'Forty-five' Muller!
Colten 'Forty-five' Muller is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the chest!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Karinth Knight!
Karinth Knight is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the left arm!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Colten 'Forty-five' Muller!
Colten 'Forty-five' Muller is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the chest!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Karinth Knight!
Karinth Knight is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the chest!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Colten 'Forty-five' Muller!
Colten 'Forty-five' Muller is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the left arm!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Karinth Knight!
Karinth Knight is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the groin!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Colten 'Forty-five' Muller!
ÿÿthe alien leaps at Colten 'Forty-five' Muller's face!
ÿÿthe alien smashes against Colten 'Forty-five' Muller's the ÿM10 pattern marine snow helmet and rips it off!
Colten 'Forty-five' Muller is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the left leg!
MOD: Whistles/(Karinth Knight) (JMP): Welp fuck this
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Karinth Knight!
Karinth Knight is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the right foot!
ÿÿthe alien leaps at Colten 'Forty-five' Muller's face!
ÿÿthe alien tears the heat absorbent coif off of Colten 'Forty-five' Muller's face!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Colten 'Forty-five' Muller!
Colten 'Forty-five' Muller is hit by the neurotoxic spatter in the left hand!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Karinth Knight!
The alien leaps at Karinth Knight!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Karinth Knight!
You grab the ÿM41A pulse rifle MK2 with both hands.
ÿYoung Spitter (671) spits at the weeds!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Karinth Knight!
You are now carrying the ÿM41A pulse rifle MK2 with one hand.
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at the weeds!
You grab the ÿM41A pulse rifle MK2 with both hands.
You fire the ÿM41A pulse rifle MK2 (Wielded)! 10/30
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at the weeds!
The Ancient Spitter (953)'s thick exoskeleton deflects the armor-piercing rifle bullet!
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at the weeds!
You fire the ÿM41A pulse rifle MK2 (Wielded)! 9/30
ÿAncient Spitter (953) spits at Karinth Knight.




And now Im on the receiving end I simply cannot see the interest in playing marine against an enemy that can perma stun three marines with barely a care.

Hugger combat is terrible enough for stun locking, the game does not need more.

[planeios]

"stop debuffing xenos" jesus fucking Christ you are talking about balance right? seriously though it's annoying and ruins the fun for marines and just makes it too easy to be an alien.

[Fritigern]

-Snip-

Happens all the time. Add any other combat alien to the mix, even a lowly runner, and the two of them could easily kill groups of 5+ marines if they're competent.

In most cases you have a better chance fighting a single, or even a pair of ravagers, than you do a spitter. It's gone past stupidity and anger and just become straight up funny at this point.

[planeios]

I just saw an ancient spitter stand in the line of fire of 5 marines and continued to spit about 10 times without going down. This has to change there isn't really any counter argument here.

There are three ways I can see this happening:

1: Spitter timer is increased so that you can't spit as fast even at ancient (keep one marine down but if you try to keep another one down they can both escape)
2: Spitters have a slightly reduced timer but they have significantly reduced damage and slightly reduced health , currently they are almost as good as hunters and the fact they can perma stun and then slash is just obnoxiously silly.
3: Ancient and elite spitter upgrade timers are double and initial timer is increased from 200 to 400 and for the spitter from 250 to 500. This would mean they would take just a bit less than a queen to become ancient.

[outordinary]

Everyone's' face due to the Saltmaster.

[Bigchilly]

bump, Spitters are not OP they are broken. +1

[Errant_aron]

Bump. Fix spitters or disable them till they're fixed.

[forwardslashN]

Could maybe nerf their range. How bit of an issue is this? This thread seems fairly divided based on the responses.

[Fritigern]

Could maybe nerf their range. How bit of an issue is this? This thread seems fairly divided based on the responses.

I feel like this explains a lot about the current state of the server.

[EMT_321]

Could maybe nerf their range. How bit of an issue is this? This thread seems fairly divided based on the responses.

Currently there is very little counterplay available. An ancient spitter can stunlock 3 marines almost indefinitely by itself.

I've seen one spit down a hall with no interruptions for a good 3 minutes while standing on weeds, which either means that it's plasma recharge rate surpasses 50 units/recharge (thats what it costs to spit neurotoxic, I believe) or that it's actual plasma storage is astronomically high. I myself have never been an ancient spitter, so I dont know the specifics. I do know that I struggle with having enough plasma to spit continuously as a mature/elite spitter, so whatever change occurs is likely at the ancient level.

I dont think people are so much irritated by the fact that it can spit fast (though that is an aspect of it), but that it can spit fast and continuously. Modifying either of those would likely alleviate some of the anger.

[forwardslashN]

Currently there is very little counterplay available. An ancient spitter can stunlock 3 marines almost indefinitely by itself.

I've seen one spit down a hall with no interruptions for a good 3 minutes while standing on weeds, which either means that it's plasma recharge rate surpasses 50 units/recharge (thats what it costs to spit neurotoxic, I believe) or that it's actual plasma storage is astronomically high. I myself have never been an ancient spitter, so I dont know the specifics. I do know that I struggle with having enough plasma to spit continuously as a mature/elite spitter, so whatever change occurs is likely at the ancient level.

I dont think people are so much irritated by the fact that it can spit fast (though that is an aspect of it), but that it can spit fast and continuously. Modifying either of those would likely alleviate some of the anger.

The thing is, apop basically intended ancient tiers to be game changers, so I'm not sure if this is actually an issue with the balance. He more or less told me that he had his spitter firerate thing set, and I shouldn't mess with it. So the question really is whether or not this ability is similar in strength to the other castes. An ancient rav can decap marines like no other, crushers soak pretty much everything, and so on. Is it really that overpowered compared to that stuff?

[Renomaki]

I think the salt factor comes from the fact that being able to stun groups of marines with ease and opening them up to decaps/hugs with no way out is the problem.

With Ravs and Crushers, you at least could still FEEL like you have a chance of taking one down with some fancy footwork and tactics. Spitters, on the other hand, have been known to just spray stunspits all over and constantly keep spitting a marine down, resetting his timer with no hope of being able to stand up and shoot back unless someone either drags him away or shakes him up.

Stuns are a really big issue. It is already somewhat annoying to deal with hugger combat (which makes B18 armor feel like a wasted investment when all the aliens need to do is throw huggers at it till the helmet breaks) over regular combat, but having stuns that you can't recover from due to constant resets.. Well, I can understand the salt, having endured it myself.

Can we fix it? Probably not. But maybe someday we'll figure somethin out in the future.

[EMT_321]

The thing is, apop basically intended ancient tiers to be game changers, so I'm not sure if this is actually an issue with the balance. He more or less told me that he had his spitter firerate thing set, and I shouldn't mess with it. So the question really is whether or not this ability is similar in strength to the other castes. An ancient rav can decap marines like no other, crushers soak pretty much everything, and so on. Is it really that overpowered compared to that stuff?

If the fire rate is set in stone, could the plasma regen/stocks be modified? At least marines need to stop and reload once in a while, but having a limitless supply of essentially taser shots certainly invokes feelings of helplessness on the receiving end.

[forwardslashN]

If the fire rate is set in stone, could the plasma regen/stocks be modified? At least marines need to stop and reload once in a while, but having a limitless supply of essentially taser shots certainly invokes feelings of helplessness on the receiving end.

Nothing is set in stone, really. Though changing the plasma regen might be a solution.

[outordinary]

The thing is, apop basically intended ancient tiers to be game changers, so I'm not sure if this is actually an issue with the balance. He more or less told me that he had his spitter firerate thing set, and I shouldn't mess with it. So the question really is whether or not this ability is similar in strength to the other castes. An ancient rav can decap marines like no other, crushers soak pretty much everything, and so on. Is it really that overpowered compared to that stuff?

On the most serious note, it is not overpowered compared to other xenos. I've played many ancient tiers and did plenty of damage. Runner can still dodge and hug/slash, sentinel can take more shots and are a bit faster compared to spitters while still keeping a constant stun, hunters can still assassinate marines even in a group of 4 due to the bullet misses and speed etc. In short, its a regular ancient level xenomorph that has a specialty in stunning which happens to be a strongpoint that takes a higher skill curve to get good at countering.

But where there are stuns, marines can fight them with more stuns and plenty of avenues to stun.

[NoShamNoWow]

Please for the love of fucking god, nerf these broken assholes. Or just buff riot shields to block the shit out of spit. Its ridiculous, they don't need a limit range because as soon as we get close enough to deal damage, the whole fucking team/squad will be down due to the fucking ancient memes.

[Sarah_U.]

I'll just +1 any spitter changes. I'm anti-CC as a whole and I could bring further arguments, but the fact remains, if you wish to win against a stunned player ask the marine team to disconnect and fight SSDs.