Ancient spitter rebalance.

[KingKire]

To really double up on whats said above about ancient level xenos; that whole teir of alien power level really does need to be balanced. Currently, ancient xenos are equal to or in some cases exceed the strength or utility of a predator. Predators by themselves are enough to completely throw the balance of the game in either direction so its weird to see 2-4 ancient level xenos by the 2ish-3ish hour mark. Thats again, the equivalent of a clan of preds taking to the field to kill just marines and never stopping until they themselves have been all killed. Marines themselves arnt really balanced combat wise to take on anything more than elite xeno ( especially since the two things that are supposed to kill ancient level xenos: specialists and AP ammo, tend to be killed/used up right at the beginning of the round instead of the end)

[Egorkor]

as I've said, I tried playing a spitter and I was really fucking surprised when I saw their jelly time is reduced in half. double it at the very least, no questions should be asked here.
however that's not gonna solve the problem of the lategame, since there were way too much cases of a clear marine win being turned around just because of one ancient spitter sitting on the edge of screen and stunning people from afar.
with that in mind, I believe the problem lies in the ability to stunlock, obviously. so it's gonna be solved by either:
-nerfing the spitting to shite, either by buffing the cooldown on spit, or removing the HMG spit, or removing the neurotox spit.
-nerfing the elite/ancients by putting on a cap of how many spitters there can be at a time with the elite and ancient status.
-removing the upgrade ability for spitters giving them something in return.
-giving the marines something to counteract them properly, since most marines are too bloodthirsty to use proper tactics against them.

[forwardslashN]

So given the feedback in this thread, and given what I saw last night as an ancient spitter wrecked 2-3 marines at a time, I'm inclined to make two changes right now: Decrease the spit range and put back collision with aliens for spit. This will go in when I finally update some time later this week, but I'm going to pin this thread for further feedback.

[Joe4444]

So given the feedback in this thread, and given what I saw last night as an ancient spitter wrecked 2-3 marines at a time, I'm inclined to make two changes right now: Decrease the spit range and put back collision with aliens for spit. This will go in when I finally update some time later this week, but I'm going to pin this thread for further feedback.

Those seem like pretty good nerfs...does the collision apply to all of the sentinel caste or just the spitter?

[Casany]

I would like to put in my three cents

So, i was playing a B18 spec WITH his helmet intact, and an ancient spitter on weeds kept me down long enough to decap me. i was on full health too. that kinda puts it in perspective their plasma regen

[forwardslashN]

Those seem like pretty good nerfs...does the collision apply to all of the sentinel caste or just the spitter?

The entire line, how it was before the gun update.

[ShortTemperedLeprechaun]

The entire line, how it was before the gun update.

I wouldn't be opposed to letting the boiler gas pass through xenos. It was a major pain int he ass to yell at the hive to move, and they wouldn't.

[Toroic]

I would like to put in my three cents

So, i was playing a B18 spec WITH his helmet intact, and an ancient spitter on weeds kept me down long enough to decap me. i was on full health too. that kinda puts it in perspective their plasma regen

This is more a testament to how bad b18 is as a spec choice than anything. You take longer to die but are only slightly harder to stunlock.

Ancient hunter could probably do the same thing, as could a crusher.

So given the feedback in this thread, and given what I saw last night as an ancient spitter wrecked 2-3 marines at a time, I'm inclined to make two changes right now: Decrease the spit range and put back collision with aliens for spit. This will go in when I finally update some time later this week, but I'm going to pin this thread for further feedback.

I support these changes though I still worry about spitter fire rate at elite/ancient.

It's also a nerf to the boiler/crusher combo which I have been fully abusing in the hopes it gets nerfed.

[forwardslashN]

Won't effect boilers. I'm okay with leaving them as it is, since before that change every boiler ever would be standing there while the rest of the hive was screaming for everyone else to get out of the way. We'll see how the spitter change works out first.

[outordinary]

So given the feedback in this thread, and given what I saw last night as an ancient spitter wrecked 2-3 marines at a time, I'm inclined to make two changes right now: Decrease the spit range and put back collision with aliens for spit. This will go in when I finally update some time later this week, but I'm going to pin this thread for further feedback.

Depending on how far the spit range is nerfed will affect a few things. You should still allow the spit to travel past the line of sight as turret shots can catch a body fast as fuck. Some range is needed to be effective against turrets. I'm fine with collision being added as long as its for spitters only. I feel praetorians would launch a glob big enough to keep spattering past an alien.

[Mech__Warrior]

as I've said, I tried playing a spitter and I was really fucking surprised when I saw their jelly time is reduced in half. double it at the very least, no questions should be asked here.
however that's not gonna solve the problem of the lategame, since there were way too much cases of a clear marine win being turned around just because of one ancient spitter sitting on the edge of screen and stunning people from afar.
with that in mind, I believe the problem lies in the ability to stunlock, obviously. so it's gonna be solved by either:
-nerfing the spitting to shite, either by buffing the cooldown on spit, or removing the HMG spit, or removing the neurotox spit.
-nerfing the elite/ancients by putting on a cap of how many spitters there can be at a time with the elite and ancient status.
-removing the upgrade ability for spitters giving them something in return.
-giving the marines something to counteract them properly, since most marines are too bloodthirsty to use proper tactics against them.

The riot shield does block the spit sometimes, but if you get downed once by an ancient spitter, expect to never get your shield back.

[forwardslashN]

Depending on how far the spit range is nerfed will affect a few things. You should still allow the spit to travel past the line of sight as turret shots can catch a body fast as fuck. Some range is needed to be effective against turrets. I'm fine with collision being added as long as its for spitters only. I feel praetorians would launch a glob big enough to keep spattering past an alien.

I've adjusted it for the spit type. Acid spit will fly farther than neurotox. As for avoiding other xenos, I have been meaning to turn off the anti-FF feature for a while since it doesn't really make a lot of sense. It was kind of needed given how bad the sentinel line used to be, but with the upgrade changes and so on, it's much, much better now.

[outordinary]

I've adjusted it for the spit type. Acid spit will fly farther than neurotox. As for avoiding other xenos, I have been meaning to turn off the anti-FF feature for a while since it doesn't really make a lot of sense. It was kind of needed given how bad the sentinel line used to be, but with the upgrade changes and so on, it's much, much better now.

Fair enough, everyone can now calm down, the spitter has been nerfed accordingly, any more complaining is now counted as pure salt.

[tails11]

I agree that ancient spitter needs nerf. Being a victim of his stuns is quite upsetting.

[Neray]

+1.

Last time I asked Apop about this he said that he knows about machinegun spitters problem and it's going to balanced soon.

[DrPillzRedux]

Except that any decent spitter is going to down you before you can do anything and permastun you.

[KingKire]

So i dont know about anyone else, but it loos like to me that marine win percentage jumped up pretty well with the last patch, but it also looks like games are alot closer. Im thinking were at the 60-40 mark of alien to marine win ratio. Im not sure if thats due mostly to spitter changes or the better target hit feedback system. Anyones thoughts on the current state of spit and hows they feel marine or aliens are balanced right now with this change?

[Ithalan]

I can certainly feel the nerf as a spitter. It's a lot harder to land hits on a marine now both due to the 4-tile range limit and the fact that spits are now blocked by other xenos. It seems spits also have a chance to just plain miss now that I hadn't noticed before.

My takeaway is that spitters no longer feel like a ranged class, but more like a runner/hunter with a pounce that doesn't move them to the target (for both the good and ill that does) and which exchanged stealth/speed for being able to acid things. My efficiency as a spitter now relies entirely on lurking around corners and jumping out in front of or behind lone or confused marines, whereas before I spent a good deal of time backing up crushers and ravagers assaulting fortified positions by keeping other marines occupied while they went for their target.

[KingKire]

Doesnt spit still go the full screen? because thats about 7 tiles. I dont mean to get technical, but it is important so people get an accurate picture of where we are. As for missing spits, i think tables have recieved tighter code for protecting people behind them, although i would need to look deeper.

[Ithalan]

Doesnt spit still go the full screen? because thats about 7 tiles. I dont mean to get technical, but it is important so people get an accurate picture of where we are. As for missing spits, i think tables have recieved tighter code for protecting people behind them, although i would need to look deeper.

Visually, the spit stops 4 tiles away, and I haven't registered any hits beyond that either. Corrosive spit seems to go 6 tiles

[Toroic]

So i dont know about anyone else, but it loos like to me that marine win percentage jumped up pretty well with the last patch, but it also looks like games are alot closer. Im thinking were at the 60-40 mark of alien to marine win ratio. Im not sure if thats due mostly to spitter changes or the better target hit feedback system. Anyones thoughts on the current state of spit and hows they feel marine or aliens are balanced right now with this change?

Spitters got nerfed and AP ammo got a significant buff. It wasn't very good and wasn't being used intelligently before, now marines are saving it for use against T3 xenos.

I still win the majority of my games as xeno but have seen a number of marine victories while observing.

[outordinary]

We don't need any more talk about spitter nerfs, they got a nerf and it is a big one. We don't need any more. End of discussion.

Also this pretty much explains the nerf effects.

I can certainly feel the nerf as a spitter. It's a lot harder to land hits on a marine now both due to the 4-tile range limit and the fact that spits are now blocked by other xenos. It seems spits also have a chance to just plain miss now that I hadn't noticed before.

My takeaway is that spitters no longer feel like a ranged class, but more like a runner/hunter with a pounce that doesn't move them to the target (for both the good and ill that does) and which exchanged stealth/speed for being able to acid things. My efficiency as a spitter now relies entirely on lurking around corners and jumping out in front of or behind lone or confused marines, whereas before I spent a good deal of time backing up crushers and ravagers assaulting fortified positions by keeping other marines occupied while they went for their target.

[Logi99]

Nope nope nope. -1. Considering how much time it takes to become an ancient spitter. Hell no. You first have to get jelly as a sentinel. To become spitter. THen continue. Upgrade to Mature. THen continue. Upgrade to Elite. Then continue Upgrade to Ancient. It takes a literal whole hour or more to get that done. Anybody who has the patient to upgrade to that longly deserves a good boost like that.

[Biolock]

I find myself saying "fuck" a lot whenever dealing with the more upgrade spitter castes, that said, I don't know that it's unbalanced for being an ancient.

[forwardslashN]

Forgot to lock this one. Spitter's neurotox range has been changed, and complaints about them have fallen. Resolved.