Special weapons and salt

[Iatots]

It's not feweh implementing them, it's the devs, and they are still discussing it.

Noize: hey guyss, but what if spec dies? how do grunt shot rocket?
Snipedragon: gee that sure is a problem, especially because this compounds with the cloning removal and xenos devoring corpses spree, I sure could've done without this but it appears anonimoose people on the internet just can't stop stealing eachother's virtual weapons...

[EMT_321]

The problem is youre basically making a suggestion AGAINST the current rules we have in-place regarding current specialist gear.

If we added a mechanic regarding ID restrictions it would only enforce the RULES we CURRENTLY have in place and make it so admins dont need to track down troublesome players.

Which youre allowed to suggest and give your opinion on. I was just saying we're going to add a mechanic to support our current rules, where as you're upset because you dont like the rules regarding specialist equipment currently.

I cannot find the rule you are citing, would you mind linking it?

[Feweh]

I cannot find the rule you are citing, would you mind linking it?

It falls under meta-gaming/power-gaming.
Always has and been stated numerous times by staff.

[EMT_321]

Could it possibly be added to the explicit rules then? I was not aware of this specific instance of the rule (thinking instead that stealing weaponry from specs was more of a "dont be a dick" issue).

What should be done in the instance that a specialist weapon is found, but the specialist is dead/uncloneable?

[SecretStamos (Joshuu)]

As long as cloning exists, specialist weapons should be protected.

If/when we do away with cloning, it's probably open season.

[Neray]

As long as cloning exists, specialist weapons should be protected.

If/when we do away with cloning, it's probably open season.

You didn't answer that guy's question though. What about (and I was talking about such situations from the beginning) situation when spec is forever lost, but his weapon was saved? No one will ever be able to use it again, if you'll add ID protection or keep enforcing "only specs can do it" metagame issue.

[Egorkor]

so you're going full "oh we gotta protect the specs gee spec rights matter', when all you have to do as a spec is either ask for your weapon back and recieve it, or ahelp the guy if he doesn't give it back. it's what I do as a spec all the bloody time, and it works.
not to mention you're what, implying dead marines and especially dead specs don't get instantly devoured by the aliens preventing the cloning in the first fucking place, and their gear is melted down?
so you're also going to bust down people that take the ID of a headless spec to use his gun to protect the FOB, too?
what in the flying fuck is going on with the dev and the staff team, I don't fucking know. this ain't gonna solve anything, this is gonna make people salty just like with the resincuffs, but hey, apparently you don't give two shites, you're just gonna let it die out after a couple of months of pointless feedback/salt/whatever the fuck, you name it, and then brand all the people who were asking to stop with that shit "salty" or something like that?
what's next, we gonna DNA-lock all the guns because someone got their ammo belt and a rifle taken from them when they were dead? maybe we should invent some stupid-ass jobs, like squad rifleman, squad grenadier, squad pointman with a shotgun, and then ban people for taking guns that a pointman the shotgunner should have, for example? hell I ain't even salty, I legit, for the first time, cannot understand what in the flying fuck is going on with the devs.

[forwardslashN]

Public announcement: This has not been decided on. We are still discussing what to do with specialist weapons and awaiting input from apop/rahlzel. Stealing spec stuff is a problem, and we are likely to might address it by ID locking weapons until cloning is removed. But this is not final, so continue discussing.

[Neray]

Public announcement: This has not been decided on. We are still discussing what to do with specialist weapons and awaiting input from apop/rahlzel. Stealing spec stuff is a problem, and we are likely to might address it by ID locking weapons until cloning is removed. But this is not final, so continue discussing.

I'll double Egorkor here. It's not that hard to ask that person in-game or ask admins to ask him via ahelp. It's a fucking in-game issue and that thief is just being a fucking dick towards already alive spec (which is rare, cause usually aliens metakill and eat specs on sight to get rid of special weapons). ID locks (god, I remember bay having ID locks on everything, even those tea-autists got rid of this idea after year of suffering) or enforcing of that unlisted "muh metagame" won't get us anywhere good and will just cause people being mad, salty, whatever. And as with every feature that makes too many people angry, it'll be removed at later point with staff member saying something like "oh, yeah, that's old stuff, stop living in the past".

I can't find a single reason to block it or not allow marines to use spec weapons other than balancing it towards aliens. And again, there're tons of ways to do it without ruining game immersion with such unrealistic crap.

This is some real bullshit.

[EMT_321]

Admittedly, I dont often play specialist, so I might be unaware of the scope of the problem.

I dont often see specialists having their gear stolen. I have seen their gear taken when specialists are killed/suicide. I dont see this being enough of an issue as to require ID-locking weapons. Is it?

Suddenly limiting all specialist weapons to a total of 4-6 people seems a gross overreaction.

[Feweh]

Every round we get ahelps about stolen SPEC gear and the medic running around with a smart-gun.

[Egorkor]

I guess you get or were getting ahelps about shite command or queens that ruin the game for the people every round, too. So where's that instant rolled out overnight timelock on command staff thing, eh?

[Neray]

Every round we get ahelps about stolen SPEC gear and the medic running around with a smart-gun.

If you really want to fix this problem, just add a subrule to marines section stating "Do not steal special weapons from specs if they're alive and against it". And then continue to punish baldies, cause, Feweh, trust me, if they're stealing spec weapons they'll fuck up even more shit later on. Plus, you'll still have to deal with them anyway, cause nothing will stop them from TAKING those guns, even though they won't be able to fire them.

Anyway, I love to play as spec from time to time and I NEVER had a SINGLE damn round where somebody tried to take my gun from my alive and kicking body.

[EMT_321]

I have literally only once witnessed stolen specialist gear from alive and kicking specialists in my several months of playing.

Are you sure that it wasnt spare weaponry being handed out by specialists, such as grenades/flamers/shields?

[Feweh]

If you really want to fix this problem, just add a subrule to marines section stating "Do not steal special weapons from specs if they're alive and against it". And then continue to punish baldies, cause, Feweh, trust me, if they're stealing spec weapons they'll fuck up even more shit later on. Plus, you'll still have to deal with them anyway, cause nothing will stop them from TAKING those guns, even though they won't be able to fire them.

Anyway, I love to play spec from time to time and I NEVER had a SINGLE damn round where somebody tried to take my gun from my alive and kicking body.

We're pro adding a mechanic in-place to make our lives easier. Not sute what it'll be, but some mechanic will be used to stop this from happening.

[Egorkor]

why not bring the LAWGIVER back while we're at it to make it easier to bust down the griefers, am I right.

[Neray]

Alright, for example, let's imagine you found that one special way to get rid of a problem. No one can use spec weapons except for specs themselves, or let's move even further, grab them or their boxes. I don't know, let's imagine you made em increase temp if someone else touches em. If a baldie or anybody else will want to grief it, he'll just pull it. Or store in crate. Or throw it in space.

It won't fix YOUR problems, but it'll add a lot of gameplay issues and problems for US. As you mentioned we're playing a game, and games are made for players, not for those who watch over bad players that might ruin a day for others. Trading off realism, gameplay, balance and people's mood just because 1 admin can't handle 1 bald issue in few rounds is something I really want to call a DICK move.

[Feweh]

Alright, for example, let's imagine you found that one special way to get rid of a problem. No one can use spec weapons except for specs themselves, or let's move even further, grab them or their boxes. I don't know, let's imagine you made em increase temp if someone else touches em. If a baldie or anybody else will want to grief it, he'll just pull it. Or store in crate. Or throw it in space.

It won't fix YOUR problems, but it'll add a lot of gameplay issues and problems for US.

Ya I wouldnt worry, will add this mechanic in and something else to balance it out.

Chill out guys.

[Neray]

Ya I wouldnt worry, will add this mechanic in and something else to balance it out.

Chill out guys.

Chill out? Really? You're basically trying to block a HUGE amount of in-game situations, ruin in-game immersion and shift whole balance just because you can't deal with few ahelps? And you want us to, pardon, chill out? I won't even call it unprofessional. I'll just call it "I'm a lazy leader and I have some lazy guys around we don't want to deal with problems we're here to deal with so here's your nerf, have fun".

As you mentioned we're playing a game, and games are made for players, not for those who watch over bad players that might ruin a day for others. Trading off realism, gameplay, balance and people's mood just because 1 admin can't handle 1 bald issue in few rounds is something I really want to call a DICK move.

[Feweh]

Chill out? Really? You're basically trying to block a HUGE amount of in-game situations, ruin in-game immersion and shift whole balance just because you can't deal with few ahelps? And you want us to, pardon, chill out? I won't even call it unprofessional. I'll just call it "I'm a lazy leader and I have some lazy guys around we don't want to deal with problems we're here to deal with so here's your nerf, have fun".

This really isnt a democracy, so I dont really care.
Make a suggestion and will look into it if you want the rules to change.

Locked as this has turned more into a suggestion.

[Rahlzel]

I've only skimmed over this topic so I don't carry any personal judgments about who did what and why, just chiming in here to tell everyone to take a deep breath and let it go. I've just added a specific rule about specialist weapons to the Metagaming section, so from now on we can handle situations like this with more tact. The eventual goal is likely to have ID-locked weapons so that only certain jobs can use certain weapons, so there's no need to get panties twisted over the issue from either staff or players when it won't even be an issue soon(tm).

Thank you.