Rule rewrite draft - Need community input

[masterspots]

Give the ripley lovely hydraulic hisses please

[TopHatPenguin]

Can we get a classification of what a standard can and can't do as currently it's very much up to the players discretion unless staff notice something that they view as breaking a rule.

Summary: Everyone has different views on what a standard can and can't do.

[Rahlzel]

So, either legitimize limited breaches, or disallow the phoron strat, don't really care which.

Good call. Fixed.

After some question asking I have found out that apparently standards can use every medical tool available to Medics except surgery, Which I think is really dumb. Requesting that they be officially limited to Gauze, Ointment, And Tricord, Or some similar level to reflect that medics should be the ones using advanced kits and toting around pillbottles.

As we see in the Aliens movie after the first alien hive fiasco, a few people are patched up without a doctor/medic, so we know that marines have at least basic medical knowledge. The Advanced Kits are just click-and-go features that don't require any time or know-how. If we think this is too OP, we'll alter them to be unusable by marines that aren't medics.

As of right now, no sound plays when they "clamp" aliens. Often times you have no idea youre even being attacked by a ripley.

I'll fix this.

Can we get a classification of what a standard can and can't do as currently it's very much up to the players discretion unless staff notice something that they view as breaking a rule.

Summary: Everyone has different views on what a standard can and can't do.

Can and can't do regarding what? Medical stuff? I'd rather not make a full list of things they can do, but rather a list of things they can't. Even then, I'd rather there not be a list at all. We want coded mechanics in place of rules, so when a marine is ABLE to do something, it means they are allowed to.

[TopHatPenguin]

Can and can't do regarding what? Medical stuff? I'd rather not make a full list of things they can do, but rather a list of things they can't. Even then, I'd rather there not be a list at all. We want coded mechanics in place of rules, so when a marine is ABLE to do something, it means they are allowed to.

A list of things they can't do sounds good until the mechanics area of Cm stops standards from being able to do it.

[Rahlzel]

A list of things they can't do sounds good until the mechanics area of Cm stops standards from being able to do it.

Can you be more specific? What would the list contain?

[Nick123q23]

I usually think that standards have basic military training, they know how guns work obviously, first aid, etc.

They wouldn't know much about engineering, besides laying tables down,
and they don't know anything beyond first aid.

I like to think that Standards can operate the more simple specialist weapons, but with extremely reduced accuracy/reloadtime/whatever, but that'd be a change in mechanics, so better to just restrict specialist weapons to specialists until that mechanics change is done.

[tempchar]

Need to add in some obscure rules that are enforced by admins but not in the list:

1. Xenos may not drag dead bodies onto either LZ

2. False walls may not be built on the escape pods

3. No running away from a predator's self destructing gauntlet unless you have seen it before, are a Dutch's Dozen member, or are a predator. (I know we can't list every metagame example under the sun, but this rule is one that a few admins pay close attention to, and it is not very obvious that this is considered metagaming.)

[Surrealistik]

Disagree with gauntlet fleeing being meta for Marines; it has enough hallmarks of a time bomb that fleeing is an appropriate response.

[TheSpoonyCroy]

3. No running away from a predator's self destructing gauntlet unless you have seen it before, are a Dutch's Dozen member, or are a predator. (I know we can't list every metagame example under the sun, but this rule is one that a few admins pay close attention to, and it is not very obvious that this is considered metagaming.)

Actually.... The staff don't enforce that, hell when the reddit post that talked about an instance of that, we were told "We're not forcing players to kill themselves because it's meta that they might not know about grenades and Pred bracer explosions." This was planned to be fixed mechanically or something like that

[Casany]

3. No running away from a predator's self destructing gauntlet unless you have seen it before, are a Dutch's Dozen member, or are a predator. (I know we can't list every metagame example under the sun, but this rule is one that a few admins pay close attention to, and it is not very obvious that this is considered metagaming.)

This is like trying to stop xenos running away from the first OB or Grenada. It'll never happen

[Rahlzel]

1. Xenos may not drag dead bodies onto either LZ

2. False walls may not be built on the escape pods

3. No running away from a predator's self destructing gauntlet unless you have seen it before, are a Dutch's Dozen member, or are a predator. (I know we can't list every metagame example under the sun, but this rule is one that a few admins pay close attention to, and it is not very obvious that this is considered metagaming.)

1. I can think of a fairly simple mechanical fix for this.
2. Same.
3. This will never happen. Ever. I'm perfectly willing to sacrifice immersion and allow this one instance of "metagaming" if it means not forcing a player to stand there like an idiot until he blows up. Like Surrealistik said, and like we've seen in the 1987 Predator movie, it's logical that it would seem like a timebomb and you should run away from it.

[tempchar]

I'm glad you have that opinion on the predator gauntlet rule. I only brought it up because some of the staff enforced that rule in the past, but it seems that you all had a discussion on it and have come to a conclusion to abolish the rule.

[Renomaki]

I myself would like it if we had metarush rules for xenos, such as:

1: Xenos are not allowed to spread weeds outside of alien-controlled territory until they make an official expansion/conquer land in a push. Being a marine and dropping down to the surface, only to see the dropzone covered head to toes in weeds is a little... excessive.

2: xenos can't be nowhere NEAR the dropzones of marines during first contact. We already have this rule for survivors, I think it could apply to xenos without much trouble. Besides, aliens shouldn't be expecting marines in the first place, and starting a mission being forced to go guns blazing because some aliens are suddenly attacking you the moment you get out of the pod/dropship is annoying and ruins the RP factor.

3: no building nests/hives outside of xeno territory until said territory is logically conquered. There were some rounds where queens, rather than using the land given to then to build their nest, instead rush to the base and set up a nest there, which really shouldn't be happening at all. Rushing as marines is heavily frowned upon, and no one likes it when marines immediately set up an FOB right at the river without even bothering to search the base. I think it is only fair if xenos had to show some restraint and just made death traps in their caves and such.

And of course... Keep the memes to the minimum. Marines are expected to have some quality of conversation, I think xenos should try to keep the constant jokes under control, since a normal xeno wouldn't be spouting memes all the time and sounding like an idiot.

[Mook476]

This looks pretty good in my opinion I approve, but that's just my little input

[Surrealistik]

One way to naturally limit excessive weed expansion is to prevent anyone but say a Queen or Hivelord from placing weed nodes off of resin, or add a 'weed nexus' that can be placed off of resin at a high Plasma cost with a cooldown by Queens and Hivelords only, and has a faster weed growth rate and expansion area.

[Renomaki]

One way to naturally limit excessive weed expansion is to prevent anyone but say a Queen or Hivelord from placing weed nodes off of resin, or add a 'weed nexus' that can be placed off of resin at a high Plasma cost with a cooldown by Queens and Hivelords only, and has a faster weed growth rate and expansion area.

That is funny, I had thought of the idea of having to expand off of existing weed, rather than just spamming nodes everywhere without issue.

Seriously though, anything to slow xenos down a tad and prevent metarushes from happening from both sides would be nice. This place is still med RP, so at the very least, I'd like to have a sense of tension upon landing and exploring, and fearing the things that go bump in the shadows. D-dayish landings are only amusing for so long before they become tedious...

[Mook476]

That is funny, I had thought of the idea of having to expand off of existing weed, rather than just spamming nodes everywhere without issue.

Seriously though, anything to slow xenos down a tad and prevent metarushes from happening from both sides would be nice. This place is still med RP, so at the very least, I'd like to have a sense of tension upon landing and exploring, and fearing the things that go bump in the shadows. D-dayish landings are only amusing for so long before they become tedious...

This actually sounds like a great idea and I think it would work out pretty good in my opinion the Xeno metarushes are just too much, and yeah you get tired of insta finding xenos or getting hugger stacked right off the bat

[forwardslashN]

One way to naturally limit excessive weed expansion is to prevent anyone but say a Queen or Hivelord from placing weed nodes off of resin, or add a 'weed nexus' that can be placed off of resin at a high Plasma cost with a cooldown by Queens and Hivelords only, and has a faster weed growth rate and expansion area.

This is a fairly easy mechanical fix. I thought about this so xenos don't go sprinting around placing weeds everywhere. Not a bad idea, all in all. I don't think limiting xenos from running around the landing/other parts of the colony is a good idea. In Aliens, one of the lone xenos sneaks on to the dropship and kills the crew. The aliens would naturally be running around the colony looking for more hosts, so it's not really a big deal to me. A xeno metarush is when the queen sets up in tcomms or nexus, which I've seen a few times.

Limiting them from spreading weeds everywhere would be nice. Weeds are generally placed only in the hive, where the queen and the eggs reside, not around everything possible like they are now.

Edit: Also, I'd like clarification on who can go to the ground and in what circumstances. I think the CL should be allowed to do so, considering he's not a part of the marine command and has a vested interest in the colony/whatever.

[Iatots]

Researcher still can't leave the sulaco?

The proposed new weed mechanics sounds good, reminds me of the creep from starcraft, but it would be quite a nerf to xenos, causing them to turtle more often.

[Surrealistik]

This is a fairly easy mechanical fix. I thought about this so xenos don't go sprinting around placing weeds everywhere. Not a bad idea, all in all. I don't think limiting xenos from running around the landing/other parts of the colony is a good idea. In Aliens, one of the lone xenos sneaks on to the dropship and kills the crew. The aliens would naturally be running around the colony looking for more hosts, so it's not really a big deal to me. A xeno metarush is when the queen sets up in tcomms or nexus, which I've seen a few times.

Limiting them from spreading weeds everywhere would be nice. Weeds are generally placed only in the hive, where the queen and the eggs reside, not around everything possible like they are now.

Edit: Also, I'd like clarification on who can go to the ground and in what circumstances. I think the CL should be allowed to do so, considering he's not a part of the marine command and has a vested interest in the colony/whatever.

I threw up a detailed proposal here: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=9549&p=100154#p100154

[Renomaki]

Researcher still can't leave the sulaco?

The proposed new weed mechanics sounds good, reminds me of the creep from starcraft, but it would be quite a nerf to xenos, causing them to turtle more often.

What would you rather have?

Xenos nesting in their cave like they are supposed to, building up a deathtrap for the marines to endure once they cross the river, or xenos just rushing the fuck out of their caves, across the river, and weeding most of the map before the marines even set foot on it for no reason?

Again, they shouldn't be expecting the marines, so prepping the battlefield to have a xeno advantage round start is a tad meta. It is also what causes so many marine metarushes, because people think that if they see resin walls on the other side of the river, it translates to "OMG ALIENS, LETS GO GET EM!!!11!!!".

[Tristan63]

Make it a rule to where marines must follow SL and command orders unless absurd or resulting in the death of someone else without proper cause.

[Ordukai]

Marine rule number 3: Do not mutiny, unless... - Mutiny is not allowed unless an Adminhelp is made giving the reason before you start.

I'm a disillusioned marine, I found 4 others who agree with me, I check to find 1 staff member online, a mentor. I send an ahelp "ADMIN: HELP: Anarchist/(Disillusioned Marine): Admins, I am here to mutiny and disposition the commander. He ordered use up to the sulac whn we were safe and now we lost the foob forever. Every 5 marines agress with me, here we go. - heard by 0 non-AFK admins." Then I make my demands to the commander, he ghosts out of terror to be put in cryo and order is restored. Sure I only found 4 other marines, but it was kinda lowpop and I DID send an ahelp although the mentor was afk (They were microwaving some TV dinner and were back within 5 minutes, however the commander had already been removed at that time.)

Does pressing the enter button on the ahelp carry the same significance as the light turning green on a dropship? I should say, are the mutineers expected to wait for a reply, and is the staff member expected to give one? Does the situation change when it's a lone mentor, moderator, or admin who receives the ahelp?

Do we the staff or we the disillusioned marines make allowances for lower population sizes when counting how many other marines agree with the ahelper?

[Rahlzel]

I've read all of your suggestions and I've made somewhat significant changes to the Job-Specific Rules section. I recommend reading through it again to make sure everything is clear.

e.g. I reversed the "leave the Sulaco" rule: "You may leave the Sulaco so long as you have clearance from your department head or a superior officer unless explicitly stated otherwise below."

[Casany]

I've noticed a lot of rules that are no longer relevant thanks to updates I.E. No dragging lockers of weapons and ammo down prior to first contact under metagaming, xenos eating corpses under not metagaming, ETC