Xeno Roleplay Issues - Part 1: Names

[slc97]

-1

Xenos are not meant to have names. Xenos are the faceless enemy that the marines fight. This game is the story of the marines fighting against an unknown enemy, and likely dying to said enemy. The story centers around the marines which is why Apop doesn't want names for xenos in the first place.

[Butterrobber202]

-1

Xenos are not meant to have names. Xenos are the faceless enemy that the marines fight. This game is the story of the marines fighting against an unknown enemy, and likely dying to said enemy. The story centers around the marines which is why Apop doesn't want names for xenos in the first place.

So, Xeno players are gonna be left out to dry?

We wanted to be recognized as much as the next guy

[Toroic]

I'm in a bit of a unique position as one of the xeno mains who actually managed to get their name out there, which only happened because I told people my ckey over LOOC and had some clutch games as crusher.

Firstly, xenos being nameless and faceless and not even knowing who each other is may be roleplaying accurate, but is terrible for maintaining a community of xeno players. I was a big part of why we have a hive section on the forums and on discord, but ultimately something more like this would encourage more people to play xeno, and play xeno more often.

This gets suggested all the time, and shot down all the time, but I still think some way for xeno players to recognize each other would be a good thing.


Xeno vets recognize each other's playstyle and coordinate/ask over looc if that is who it is all the time anyway.

[Polkjm]

+1 ONLY IF the queen names the xenos and they don't get to choose. No idea what it would be called, and I mostly play xeno, but people befriending one 'number' and only helping them and only attacking with them ect is just shitty. Allowing people to choose numbers will just cause even MORE meta-gaming people down, or rushing to find your buddy/pro-player and stick near them.

What's the point of having a name if you don't choose it? The main goal is having players be recognized by the community.

More importantly, in regards to the problem you brought up, I believe it would really not be that big of a deal. I don't see this being a problem for the marine side, and I don't see why marines would be granted names if that's the case. Why not simply give marines random names if that's so bad? Why is it fine for marines to have names but it's such a stretch for xenomorphs to have the same?

[Jroinc1]

-1

Xenos are not meant to have names. Xenos are the faceless enemy that the marines fight. This game is the story of the marines fighting against an unknown enemy, and likely dying to said enemy. The story centers around the marines which is why Apop doesn't want names for xenos in the first place.

And xenos are players too. We'd like to be recognized OOC... and is it that immersion-breaking to have a hunter called "Scar", or a drone called "Slow"?

Hell, make the names only xeno-visible, if that's possible...

[slc97]

Xenos are a hivemind. They do not have even a single iota of individuality in them. They're a hivemind. The number reinforces that. You are not a named character, you are a numbered character. That's the way it's supposed to be for xenos.

[Monoo]

Maybe just make the names work like they already do. Xenos are now allowed to pick the 1-999 number that they spawn as, and may keep that number forever. So say a prominent xeno player reserves the name '522.' Other players see Praetorian (522) and recognize it as said player, without changing the immersion or adding in cheesy names.

[Polkjm]

Xenos are a hivemind. They do not have even a single iota of individuality in them. They're a hivemind. The number reinforces that. You are not a named character, you are a numbered character. That's the way it's supposed to be for xenos.

The numbers are a way to be differentiated. Names are just a way that actually works. Lore-wise, it's just a way for the queen to know "Dust" isn't the same alien as "Scythe".

It does not mean they have a personality, it does not mean they have individuality. It is a lore-friendly way to give xeno players something they desperately want.

It wouldn't affect marine players in any way, because they would not see a name. They wouldn't even see a number anymore, which is better in my opinion

[Toroic]

Xenos are a hivemind. They do not have even a single iota of individuality in them. They're a hivemind. The number reinforces that. You are not a named character, you are a numbered character. That's the way it's supposed to be for xenos.

This actually isn't true. Xenomorphs are individuals with their own personalities and variable intelligence/aggression ranging basically from a dog to humanlike.

Difference being that when a queen evolves she can psychically enslave other xenomorphs. Their personalities may or may not be subsumed at that point, but it is more likely they simply don't have free will anymore.

We don't really get the xenomorph perspective in the generally terribly written movies either.

[Jroinc1]

Xenos are a hivemind. They do not have even a single iota of individuality in them. They're a hivemind. The number reinforces that. You are not a named character, you are a numbered character. That's the way it's supposed to be for xenos.

Okay. I'm a player. I have a personality and individuality. I'd like to be differentiated so people can see me when I play.

I'd like some distinct marker for OOC id purposes... hell, make it only visible to GHOSTS, if you want.

[Sailor Dave]

Xenos are a hivemind. They do not have even a single iota of individuality in them. They're a hivemind. The number reinforces that. You are not a named character, you are a numbered character. That's the way it's supposed to be for xenos.

This is a community issue. You're not understanding what they're saying. Firstly, there's what Toroic said about xenos not being mindless drones, they do have personality and intelligence. Secondly, as has been said repeatedly, xenos deserve to be recognized for things outside of the game.

Consider predator applications; If a player who could be a very good roleplayer and community-oriented person in general wanted to apply to be a predator, but played xeno primarily, how would they get any recognition for their effort? Their chances of being accepted are drastically reduced simply because nobody was able to recognize them during play.

Would most people even bother to roleplay as a xeno, knowing that nobody is going remember who they are? Based on evidence.. Clearly not. I think if xenos were able to be recognized, roleplay potential could increase by a lot (or so I would hope.)

This issue has come up again and again, and never really gets the attention it deserves. A lot of people want to be recognized for the things they do, and that's a perfectly reasonable thing. Marines have rules for their names, xenos can have rules for their names too. There wouldn't BE any meme fuckery, because that's what the name rules are for.

[Butterrobber202]

B U M P.

Still pretty damn important.

and for the dudes that say that only the Queen can choose their names, image the Queen getting flooded with 'Change my name to X' and 'X stole my name! Name me X instead!'

[Snypehunter007]

Like Slc and the reasons he said I also am going to post my -1 about this. Xenos don't really need names. Even the being able to choose their own number would seem broken because you could have two of the same number in a round or two people who aren't the same but have the same number over multiple rounds.

[Ordukai]

Hears a few things to consider:

1) Choosing numbers? Suddenly the hive is swarmed with "Alium 001, 007, 117, 404, 666, 777, 999" just to name a few.

2) Can't have the same number as someone else? "Admin, he stole my number, make it stop"<-In response to discovering that 666 is taken. "Hey, I haven't seen Alium 117 on for a few days and I bet he didn't renew the license to his name, so his patent must have run out by now, right?" "He's unworthy to hold the number of 007. Isn't setting it to 007 basically like a marine named "James Bond" anyways?"

3) For this choose a name thing, what if you choose Alien 444 because you like the number 4, but then realize that Alien 404 sounds way cooler? Surely you shouldn't be locked in to that number for eternity- After all marine's can change their names. But we'd* have to create a system that stores the numbers and locks them out, then also unlocks them if they're unregistered or something. That's another step to the process.
*We means the coders(and I'm not sure how difficult any of this would be for the coders)

4) Does recognition among marines have the same effect as recognition among aliens as far as unfairness goes? Getting fewer attachments or whatever seems to be less cruel than being restricted from evolution by the queen because oh look, Alien 007 announced that he just spawned- "You are no longer allowed to evolve, that T3 spot is reserved for the next 15 minutes until 007 can evolve up to there". A marine with and without a barrel charger isn't the same as a xeno with or without a T3 change. Things like hunter to crusher, spitter to boiler, or hey even drone to hivelord are quite significant by comparison.

5) Oh, how do you feel about treading on the corpses of five Alium (101)s? The game probably won't appreciate it, and will instead make it Alium (101)(2) or (3) or whatever as necessary. The name character limit seems to be 25, by the way.

6) And speaking of five Alium (909)s, what about that one bit of the Roleplay Guidelines that says:
(When you die, you are a 100% NEW XENO - However, your "previous" life is part of the hive-mind, so you CAN use/pass on knowledge your previous "life" knew, as the hive "should" know it. (I.E. Dieing to a mine near the Nexus means you can say "There are mines by the nexus, lookout", but you can't say "I WAS THE PREVIOUS QUEEN, I CLAIM QUEEN, OBEY MEH".)
Of course, the bit about claiming queen sounds and is silly, but it might tie in to point 4. Obviously if we implement recognition among xenos we trample all over this current idea.

I'm interested to read your responses to these 6 potential concerns. Not that I necessarily believe that all six of these are individually enough to give this suggestion a "Denied", I just think they deserve discussion.

[Jroinc1]

Firstly, 4. Queens cannot currently assign evolutions, I DUNNO why everyone thinks they can. It is POSSIBLE for a queen to order no xenos to evolve until player x gets his crusher, but it'll just be ignored by the hive 9 outta 10 cases, as the queen CANNOT hard-lock the slot.

Next 1,2, and 3. Why are certain numbers considered memy to you guys? Just treat it as an individual number, or if you don't like that, have a random-number generator to give you a random, but fixed name (Like the random name genny for 'rines). If you REALLY can't stand the thought of xeno (007), just remove all numbers that give your memesenses a heart attack from the pool. Same thing with trying to choose a different name, just hit the random gen button again. We aren't looking for cool numbers, just numbers to identify us.

Next, 5. Isn't it immersion-breaking to see the corpses of 3 dead 'rines who just got cloned?

[Jroinc1]

Xenos don't really need names.

But xeno PLAYERS do, or they won't be known at all...
That's what we're getting at.

[Snypehunter007]

But xeno PLAYERS do, or they won't be known at all...
That's what we're getting at.

J, if you give names to xenos anyways how would they even work with xenos dying because it would be weird if names persist through death

[Sailor Dave]

To address issue 6: these names, or SOME kind of identifier, would be intended to identify people for OOC purposes. It doesn't mean that IC they are the same exact alien. Personally, I'm not really keen on just numbers being used to distinguish people because they aren't distinctive and anyone can take numbers, which could result in misidentification. Plus it seems kind of silly to try to moderate everyone trying to use each other's numbers, when names would be much easier to manage in that regard.

Ultimately, it seems most people are just concerned about people taking stupid names, or despite the clear OOC purpose of the names, still feel that its immersion-breaking. If names specifically are such an issue, why don't we try to come up with a way to identify people that wouldn't bother marines unless they specifically look for it? Some sort of customizable examine text, maybe?

I don't care if the identifier isn't outright visible as long as anyone has the ability to find it if they want to.

[Jroinc1]

J, if you give names to xenos anyways how would they even work with xenos dying because it would be weird if names persist through death

Isn't it weird how a dead 'rine shows up as his name instead of "Generic Corpse"?

If it's a big deal, alter it so any dead ayy leaves behind an unnumbered corpse- "Alien Drone" instead of "Alien Drone (766)".
Honestly, not sure what you're getting at.

[Joe4444]

Isn't it weird how a dead 'rine shows up as his name instead of "Generic Corpse"?

not really. Marines have IDs AND distinctive face/body features. All xenos look similar to every single one in their caste

[Ordukai]

1.The difference between 3 dead rines who just got cloned and 3 dead aliens is:
1. A) There's an actual IC mechanic explaining why they're alive again- Specifically the whole "Cloning" thing. As in, that's the mechanic. Cloning. Because their DNA is taken and they're rebuilt based off of it, or whatever. (Hey, aren't those bodies put in the morgue or cremated anyways? You'd have to go grave robbing if you wanted to ruin your immersion, even if you don't accept my explanation)
Compared to
1. B) There is currently no accepted "thing" to explain how a dead ravager would reappear inside a random body as a larva. It's quite obvious what happens to the humans- The old body is taken to the cloning chambers and is later discarded while they new body walks off. Not so much for the xenos- Their bodies are left lying around the battlefield or perhaps taken up to the Sulaco- the distinction being that marine bodies MUST be retrieved. Perhaps you would say that the hivemind "stored" the ravager and re-uploaded her in the larva, or something?

2. As for

To address issue 6: these names, or SOME kind of identifier, would be intended to identify people for OOC purposes. It doesn't mean that IC they are the same exact alien. Personally, I'm not really keen on just numbers being used to distinguish people because they aren't distinctive and anyone can take numbers, which could result in misidentification. Plus it seems kind of silly to try to moderate everyone trying to use each other's numbers, when names would be much easier to manage in that regard.

Ultimately, it seems most people are just concerned about people taking stupid names, or despite the clear OOC purpose of the names, still feel that its immersion-breaking. If names specifically are such an issue, why don't we try to come up with a way to identify people that wouldn't bother marines unless they specifically look for it? Some sort of customizable examine text, maybe?

I don't care if the identifier isn't outright visible as long as anyone has the ability to find it if they want to.

• 2. A)I'm sure I'm misunderstanding your argument, because OOC in IC is just about as immersion breaking as it gets. And while the intention may be for "OOC purposes", the implementation would most certainly lead to "IC purposes"
• 2. B)The moderation for the numbers would theoretically be dispensed with via a system coded in that restricts numbers.
• 2. C)Silly names aren't quite as bad as teamwork assassination.
• 2. D)It's not just marines being bothered we have to consider.
• 2. E)Examine text is an interesting idea, but it's an extension of IC anyways. Some kind of ASCII bunny rabbit probably wouldn't fly as an examine text as it is.
• 2. F)What makes Point 6 so poignant is that this roleplay guideline is negatively enforceable. Or is it positively? Who knows. Anyways, we only have to mention it if we see/hear of a xeno popping out as a larva and saying "Say: Hivemind:((I'm actually Ravager 579, that was me who did that one thing))" Making this naming system a thing would flip the situation. What we have now is anonymous xenos occasionally trying to identify themselves. What we would have with this implementation is known xenos trying to anonymize themselves. The roleplay guideline and this naming idea seem to be mutually exclusive- You would not be able to help noticing that the new larva has the same identification as the old ravager, and IC interactions based off of that would absolutely follow.

[Polkjm]

ICly, if you see another alien being born with the same name as another who died, it only means the queen liked the name of that one, and gave it to a newborn. It's not the same xeno

[Sailor Dave]

I'm honestly not sure how to address your concerns, Ordukai. It seems like anything I would say would inevitably lead to the IC/OOC conflict. Even something as innocuous as a ckey tag in examine text would be considered too much. What else can I say, then?

I know I repeat myself about this in nearly every thread its mentioned in, but don't xenos really deserve to be recognized? Don't you think this is a legitimate issue for people? Polkjm sums it up very nicely in their sixth post on the first page. We just want to be a part of the community.
What else could I possibly suggest that wouldn't be an "IC extension"? That's the whole point of being able to recognize someone just from looking at them without having to ask every single person who they are in deadchat or OOC, assuming they ever DO die.

I would like to ask you to see it from our perspective, and give a good thought about what alternatives WOULD work. Forget about whether or not to implement names, and to consider another workable solution.

(As a funny little aside; do you mean to suggest that if xenos have a way to identify each other, they're more like to actually.. team up and work together?? oh my. Wouldn't that be something? Heh, though I do wish that scenario could actually come about without it being a meta issue, and isn't really the point I'm making here.)

[Ordukai]

I'm not trying to shoot this idea down per se.

I just believe it will be a lot stronger if you know its limitations, and have considered what might go right and what might go wrong. If you can figure out what we'd be giving up by implementing >a< system, then you can help all of us figure out whether we want to go through with it or not.

By the way, as the person in favor of this change it's totally your responsibility to come up with alternatives :P. Something else you might consider is discussing whether or not what's gained makes up for what's lost, and explaining that in terms of the IC/OOC conflict.

[Sailor Dave]

Alright. This is an often repeated concern, so most people have had their comments about it already, including your numbered issues, though most of that involves numbered names which I'm not really a fan of. This is a difficult topic to go over thoroughly, including all the pros and cons, with just posts.

I think this is a problem that needs real-time back and forth to really dig into the issues as to why this will and will not work. I'll be frank, I'm not the best debater. I support this idea because I believe in it, but no matter how many words I put out or how big a post I make, I feel I never address these problems correctly with static posts. It's also difficult for me to come up with alternatives without understanding exactly why people would have issue with them. I'd like to know what you think is wrong with a simple Ckey tag in examine text as my first real suggestion. Not ASCII bunnies, just straightforward information that nobody has to even look at if they don't want to.

Edit: In the meantime, I will try to compile a list of current suggestions, as well as their commonly associated pros and cons, though it'll mostly be in my own opinion. I've put together a bit of a draft here, but I consider this very rough. I can be pretty critical sometimes, and tend to go into detail about negatives. That in no way represents how I feel about the suggestion overall, I fully support this in some implementation or another 100%. That being said, I feel like the thread post covers the implementation much better than me. I'm very bad at explaining things, so this is just a VERY INCOMPLETE pros/cons list. I'll hopefully get more opinions as well to add to the list tomorrow.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z81 ... sp=sharing