So I essentially skimmed the titles of the forum discussions as well as Discord and Dchat on how to improve the marines by buffing them or nerfing xenos and seeing most of these topics concentrated on the gears and stats of each individual characters themselves. However, I tend to find that one aspect of the marines operation weakness is overlooked, which I like to call it CIC Weakness.
CIC Weakness
Many of the new implemented features and buffs for marines plays only one part of the role in Marine Operational Success. However, often seen this tends to be flawed if the marine force is over-reliant on individual prowless as opposed to actual cohesive unit attack all the way up to the top chain of command. Many look up to their SL or aSL for guidance (including their Specs & Vet Players) as opposed to most in command, with exception of people like Bill Carson and Tom Dinkle.
CIC Weakness tend to generate:
- Lack of Cohesion and Coordination
- Lack of Information due to Information distributed and given
- Lack of Leadership Ability (Obviously)
- Delayed Action, Information & Orders
I often said to my xeno friends & Dchat that no buff can save the marines from their defeat, and in most cases this can be true because the marines often have this weakness easily abused that you can't really call meta. To prove my point, refer back to the days Stat Mutators got removed, xenos were struggling to get used to the new gameflow at first but eventually they got hold of it and increased the xeno win ratio. (Remember, this is after marines got a HUGE attachies buff and eventually got further buffs)
Why? Marines had numbers and each numbers have their individual prowless and robust plays, how can xenos make a turnaround? The answer? CIC Weakness. (Except of Grenade FF which is another reason)
Illustration of Communication Flow
To make a simple illustration, I will first compare the communication flow of the Xeno Hivemind and Marine Radio Comms.
For a xeno to give orders and distribute information, their flow would be something like this:
Queen Overwatching Xeno/Xeno Report (Roughly 10 seconds to see and verify)
> Check Minimap (Optional, 5 seconds)
> Give Order/Distribute Information via Word of Queen or Normal Chat (5-10 seconds depending on length of message and player's typing speed)
Total Time : 20 Seconds at least
Simple right? But for a Marine to communicate and distribute/order, here is how it is:
>Marines Reporting an Incident + Verifying (45 Seconds, simply because on Lowpop and lack of CIC staff you have to run to the individual consoles to confirm and you gotta type. In actual battle cases, when you are engaged in combat, you will receive multiple reports and you have to check the status of each squads to make a decision. Even if you have SO this problem stays because you have to wait for the SO to verify and inform the aCO or CO. Time actually varies depending on CIC skill so we put 45 seconds as an average)
>Making your decision and assessing the mini map (Let's make it 10 seconds)
>Giving Orders Via Announcement & Intel Distribution (Assuming you Do Both which composes a lengthly announcement and adding your RP style like Heinz or Juro, 20 seconds)
>Nag the orders, nag nag and nag (Unlike the Hivemind where word of the Queen is law, you don't get the luxury here in the USCM. Simply put, there is a sense of decentralised command system in place here that allows some form of liberty in making your own decisions depending on the tactical advantage or sense or the current urgency of the situation making it impossible for the squad to follow the orders, hence the CIC has to coordinate a rescue or some form of assistance that takes additional time. But this can vary by many factors so let's put it at 20 seconds assuming no one argues. Of course xenos can also disobey but that is rarer than marines simply because of Queen Mother's wrath.)
>Groundside Information/Order Distribution and Squad Rallying (It is not enough to just nag, you have to wait for the squad to rally and assemble to get ready for any action. 30 seconds)
>Actual Execution (SL or aSL giving orders to execute like Unga or Retreat. 10 seconds)
Total Time: 135 Seconds or 2 Minutes 15 Seconds just to get something done. This number varies greatly, especially on how good CIC is.
I would like to remind everyone in 2 minutes many things can happen and this is a somewhat textbook situation. Many factors can add up during this time or could also otherwise delay the situation further. In a more summary list, the main features would be:
- Requisitions, you have to channel comms and nag and chase for Req for their supplies which take time
- Coordinates and Laze for CAS for heavy hitting with take further time, even more so when you struggle to do it while CAS is in flight and/or getting OB console
- Groundside Situation, during the course of it all you have marines caught out of position, numbers picked/wounded, Queen screeching and taking a bulk of your forces, etc.
- Groundside Strength, how many wounded and critically wounded, how many with ammo? What is squad's positioning and time taken to reposition and reorder and rerally
- DEFCON reinforcements, time taken to wait and deploy
- Comm chatter, resolving arguments or fights over FF, additional situations being reported and transfered, marines engaging
- Time taken for SOs to understand the situation and relay
- Backline Harassments, Flanks, sudden Xeno push not previously reported.
Imagine how much time is it to get your order out, distribute information, get information with all of that.
Situational Abuse of CIC Weakness
Because this is a tug of war situation, as said, the flow of the battle can change quickly. Inexperienced CIC roles, especially when hesitant, can cause delays as they assess the situation and give orders. Bad orders can set marines back and incomplete orders can delay the situation to enemy advantage.
Now remember what I said that being reliant of individual prowless is a flawed concept? Well let's put it simply. One marine with good gear charging alone by being baited or out-maneuvered with xenos quickly reinforcing the area with additional forces is good as dead. To prevent that, you have to literally communicate which takes time and depends on the tasklists in CIC. Outplaying Marines is one of the key things xenos need to do to ensure success.
Now to further elaborate my point, I take you to how I usually play Xeno Queen. By analysis I have formulated a strategy for xeno win that should work no matter what buffs you give the marines. This was formed to counter the known metarushes to stat mutators at the time as well as really amazing robust marines plays. That is to turn the marines against each other. The primary objective to achieve this are:
- Cause marines to FF each other by shooting/nading them, literally scare them to do it. (Of course I have to nag the hive to be incredibly defensive and on when to push)
- Jam their communications with mindless ramblings by creating a lot of situations, by suddenly attacking, suddenly withdrawing, skirmishing, building. (You create so many things to report that you jam it up along with call for wounded, etc.)
- Create Confusion (being very fluid with your methods and thanks to how Queen's order is law, you can execute tactics very easily by taking advantage of the situation you created above. Eventually command has so little time to think and properly assess the ever changing groundside situation that their orders cannot be accurately given)
There are many ways to execute these objectives but these are what you should achieve. You turn the marines against each other by guns, by mind, and by word. You render their ability to use OP guns fully with cohesion near useless. And thanks to the really long delay given how CIC is equipped as shown in the flow, it is REALLY HARD TO DO ANYTHING if you execute it well. I get a lot of Xeno win and successes even if I died as queen that one round, wiping out the Specs and close to 75% of marine forces giving way to xeno win after 1 and a half hours later for my successor.
Since you can't rambo in this game, it's hard (Unless you are like John Murray), you are heavily reliant on a team. And the team coordination can be utterly destroyed by exposing the very obvious weakspot of the marines. (Which is why I get discouraged to play any CIC roles after the Sseth tide unless it's a joke character)
And it cant be meta since 1. You know Tallhosts can spit each other unlike Xenos and 2. Marines visibly communicates verbally through radio. So you just assume they have a Hivemind of their own and play against the Hivemind.
Further CIC Weakness in Community
The Balder CIC is, along with the SL/aSL, the easier it is to expose it. However, with some players' philosophy of command emphasising centralisation of command, and some arguing that SLs should have decentralised command, you create this barrier to overcome that makes it hard to command. This is further evidenced by rule clarification section on SLs disobeying Command orders here: //showthrea...on-Update-2019
Some CIC players make the mistake of not being the information broker for groundside marines, being a pure strategist and tactician instead. It's called Command Information Centre, clue's in the name.
The only way I can see it being resolved is to have a one Chad Alpha Male CO or aCO where their orders given are able to be followed without question, that the USCM trust them with their lives and execute them with great competence. So far I have only seen 2 COs do that, namely:
- Bill Carson
- Tom Dinkle
Allow me to say you need not be good, you need to be good and IMPRESSIVE. Bill Carson and Tom Dinkle lost their rounds before, people still love following their orders. You have to make a good impression on people.
The Take
My take on this is that while there is great emphasis on individual prowless and ability to perform groundside, there is often an overlooked element on supporting roles such as CIC. (Not overlooking Doctors, MT, CT, etc). The other would be the command emphasis of centralised and decentralised command. I would like to believe that SLs should make the tactical decisions while the SOs become their information brokers not to give orders unless it is to rely what the CO/aCO says.
Centralised command only works if assuming your communication flow works very efficiently or is very simplified, combined with a decent CO. Decentralised command allows decisions made quickly on the go. This is largely debatable hence the argument of the preferred style of command. However, decentralised command can only be allowed if the CO allows it, since the rule was established on the chain of command in the USCM.
An alternative method is to go the ancient method explained in De-Re Militari, to ensure everyone from top to bottom is competently trained. Since this is a video game and new players do actually come to the server and try new roles, this is virtually implausible.
So that's one aspect of the situation, what do you guys think? Is there another analysis to it? Is there an alternative solution? I would like to know your thoughts.
Originally Posted by BeardedWall
