SL, The Unspoken STD?

[Marcus Jackson]

Quite honestly, I've seen more than my fair share of bad SL's, but what really irks me is when you get picked for squad SL (despite having it on medium-priority) and still need to be in charge... because if you won't no one will.

It's not that being an SL is a very difficult job... relay info, keep the squad together and organized, and occasionally shoot some aliens from the middle of your formation. It all has to do with how SL's are treated, half the time that I join late-game the SL is either dead, dying, or in the middle of an argument with Bridge Staff over how badly they are actually screwed versus contextually.

In most cases I'm an SL from the start and note the attitudes taken towards me very quickly. The Spec does everything they can to keep me alive, knowing that if I die they will become the next to be tainted by middle-ground leadership, and their loyalty is something to be admired. The Medics will listen... up to a point, and then they decided to either hitch a ride on the Pod or Rasp to hang out in Medical, or simply walk off and join another squad "Because they have no medics" even though they only have a pistol and the squad they want to join with is in the middle of combat. The Engineers will try their hardest (most of the time) god rest their souls, but will very quickly become over-taxed with requests for mechanical-limb-repair, fixing a flawed FOB that was another squad's responsibility, or getting their faces ripped off by shrapnel that a baldie launched from a brand new landmine. The PFC is the strange one... if they are late game they will usually be obedient, loyal, and do anything to help the squad... while some you started with will slowly begin to ignore you if they don't get their asses kicked by aliens every ten minutes, and bully Engineers into building crappy FOBs in a place like Fitness... ya' know the place, where a medium sized hive is while an OB is about to strike.

Bridge can either make or break an SL, and usually they just skip over the pleasantries and seem to jump right to breaking you. COwill assign your squad to FOB, the problem is that you have only six Medics and one Spec, their solution is simple: Assign another squad to help, the squad with only one Engineer. When the CO asks why you have no signifigant FOB progress, but a kickass triage you tell them that you only had one engineer (which makes them very nettled), they send your squad to assault T-Fort while the other squad stays behind to hold FOB as punishment... this squad has no medics for wounded and is mostly marines that have full-AP clips or three boxes of slugs each. (These are all very general examples, but I hope you get that some of these are just jokes and nothing more.)

While there are indeed SL's that should not be allowed to lead, they are a very small number compared to the SL's that get treated like the least favorite hooker at the brothel. If anyone has any solutions to get the importance of an SL across to all players (Both CO and even that guy who refills the soap dispensers) I'm more than open. And if anyone has some SL horror stories I'd love to hear em!

[TheMusician321]

I've got an SL horror story for you.

Briefing is finished, we just landed planetside and we were ordered to build the FOB and set power.
Dope engi actually does his job, sets power and starts building the FOB, meanwhile I notice my entire squad is missing, where did they go? I thought to myself.
Then I start getting reports over squad comms, send help hydro etc. etc. tell them to get their asses out of there, ask command if my squad got any casualties, no reply.
Okay I thought to myself, tell my engie to continue building tcomms, I run over to hydro and see my entire squad lying on the floor fucking dead and not one, not two, but THREE RAVAGERS slashing them, I promptly fire my grenade launcher in hopes of slowing them down from chasing me and hoof it back to tcomms, went back to tcomms to find a broken helmet, a welding tool on the ground and my engineer gone, okay, shit's fucked, ask command what's happened, they report my engi is in the northern caves, fuck me, I say to myself then command drops the bomb, in the entire ten minutes that this took place my ENTIRE SQUAD was wiped out by three ravagers and what i'm assuming was a hunter/runner that managed to cap my engi, I then proceed to rally the other squads, get their bodies from hydro, killing one of three ravagers in the process and a prae, we start hoofing it back to TComms and were in the middle of fitness and hydro when queen screeched.

At this point I was starting to give up but NOPE, super-baldie pops out of nowhere, literally pulls the guy out of the queen's grip getting my hopes up for one moment until he proceeds to PB buckshot me in the face in what I was assuming was an accident, the marines then proceed to run the fuck away despite the queen being pretty much the sole xeno there as there was only a hivelord planting weeds that I saw after being unceromoniously decapped by super-baldie and my body dragged away by the queen.

TLDR: Squad runs off to hydro without me knowing, went after them only to see they've been gg'd by three ravs, run back, find my engi got capped, rally entire marine force to go retrieve the bodies from hydro, queen screeches, super baldie decaps me, body gets dragged away never to be cloned ever again.

and that's the story of how I stopped playing SL for a few days.


edit: Forgot to mention my engi wasn't alone as there were a bunch of other marines were there.

[Marcus Jackson]

Dude... that just brutal

[NoahKirchner]

The best SL round I had ended with command running us into a suicide charge. Adversity builds a stronger bond between you and your subordinates.

[TheMusician321]

Dude... that just brutal

I've got more but I have to go for a bit, i'll post them later when I get on.

[Youbar]

If anyone has any solutions to get the importance of an SL across to all player I'm more than open.

Establishing a common respect among the marines for command ultimately comes down to altering how they view command. Currently, command is insulted and threatened with mutiny if they do badly, and otherwise ignored if they do well. There is little praise to be found if you do your job properly as an officer. You're often simply a scapegoat if things go badly.
In terms of squad leaders, if you want to establish their importance to the marines, they simply need to keep three principles in their head.

• Each squad leader represents at most 25% of the marine force on the ground at any given time. To disregard their orders is to reduce this percentage below its maximum.
• The most effective manner of delivering supplies is through a supply beacon. If you stray away from your squad leader, you will likely not have the chance to rearm.
• Squad leaders are the mortar in the marines that are otherwise just bricks remotely resembling a wall. When they are ignored, captured, or killed, that wall is weakened. To ignore your squad leader is to undermine him, and in turn, not only weaken him, but the entire marine team.

[Skane10634]

I agree to be honest.

[Marcus Jackson]

Establishing a common respect among the marines for command ultimately comes down to altering how they view command. Currently, command is insulted and threatened with mutiny if they do badly, and otherwise ignored if they do well. There is little praise to be found if you do your job properly as an officer. You're often simply a scapegoat if things go badly.
In terms of squad leaders, if you want to establish their importance to the marines, they simply need to keep three principles in their head.

• Each squad leader represents at most 25% of the marine force on the ground at any given time. To disregard their orders is to reduce this percentage below its maximum.
• The most effective manner of delivering supplies is through a supply beacon. If you stray away from your squad leader, you will likely not have the chance to rearm.
• Squad leaders are the mortar in the marines that are otherwise just bricks remotely resembling a wall. When they are ignored, captured, or killed, that wall is weakened. To ignore your squad leader is to undermine him, and in turn, not only weaken him, but the entire marine team.

Exactly what I was thinking, but you said it way better than I ever could.

[Skane10634]

The main problem is we dont have a real system of instilling respect, i mean in real life if someone says "Fuck you admiral" or whomever, that bitch is getting a military tribunal, as is they just get away with it.

[Marcus Jackson]

The main problem is we dont have a real system of instilling respect, i mean in real life if someone says "Fuck you admiral" or whomever, that bitch is getting a military tribunal, as is they just get away with it.

It's not just with the people under you that seem to not respect you. Almost always somebody on the Bridge will ask you for a report, and when you give it they either ignore what you said and make you do suicidal shit, or they say that you're whining if you ask for a head-count of marines and maybe put a box of ammo on the pod.

There is just an unofficial but universal disdain for SL's, even if they are good ones that bring victory on a constant basis, and it seems to be slowly getting worse.

[danmax67]

My worst SL story,

We finish briefing, go down.
I order my muhreens to secure the FOB, which I believe was Engineering. We go there, one guy decides to go North. I order him to go back, he ignores me.
A while later,
We're relaxing in the FOB, I decide to see how many people are left. I tell everyone to check in, and their location.
3 people.
I started with 8.
I assume that pretty much everyone died, so I order all my troops to rally on me. We advance to Hydro, to find the missing troops.
We get ambushed by ayyliens.
As i'm being dragged away, a guy on comms says,
"SL, you've been too inactive so far."
And everyone on comms states how inactive I am.
I cry.

Now, this is the basic story, I don't remember the whole story in full detail, as it happened long ago.

[Renomaki]

In my opinion, SLs are one of the most stressful jobs on CM, even moreso than CO, which makes it a very unpopular job despite all the benefits one gets.

While the CO can lead his marines in a focused, safe location, SLs are expected to put themselves constantly in harm's way while PERSONALLY leading a small group of jumpy marines that go batshit crazy the moment they see a runner. Stuff like this can easily break a man, and due to this, many players tend to avoid it due to the stress the role brings.

I myself have dabbled in the role for a fair while, and I gotta say, while it can be rewarding at times, most of the time it is a pain in the ass. It all depends on the marines you have under your command.

As for serving UNDER an SL, it can be a real gamble at times. You might get lucky and have someone with a nice brain in their skull leading your little group, or you might end up with an idiot who only took the job for the benefits alone with no intent on leading his squad. I call these sorts "Glorified Grunts", because all they do is run around shootin shit rather than being leaders. Hell, now that SLs can use Spec Weapons, I can imagine this getting a whole lot worse.

As of now, the Spec is the most popular role in the game, with the majority of players having it set to HIGH because it is a cool job with cool toys to play with (despite the fact that those who take the job are also expected to take charge should their leader die or not be present, which most amusing refuse with every inch of their will most of the time). SLs meanwhile are often not all awake at round start, and you might not even get one because of it's low popularity, while on the other hand, setting it to HIGH will give you a 90% of getting the job every time.

I wish that things were swapped, where it is the SL role that is heavily fought over, because it is a very powerful position if used right. All it needs, though, are more reasons TO get the job. The only issue is what?

[Karmac]

The one thing I want to see more of in SL's is INDEPENDENCE.

Sure, you are the middle-man between the CO's orders and the PFC's ears, but if Command tells you to jump off a cliff, are you really going to do that? You're just as qualified as any BO and tactically speaking, you should know a bad order when you see one.

[Recounted]

Pray you never get a handful of STDS who just goes up to river 15 minutes in. A couple im fine with them, they get fucked up thats on them not me but when my medics engi SPEC and marines do that shit im goin cryo

[Artouris]

SL is indeed a very stressful job. If you want to know how stressful, just jump on discord when I'm playing SL. Like I turn into sort of a asshole because there's alot of shit going on sometimes. That and survivor is another role that is stressful as fuck.

Honestly for SL you have to really push for the role yourself. Because its a completely different playstyle than being a grunt until your in the caves. At which point you should still be talking more than shooting. I've been getting some pretty good results so far. You've also got to actually think. Following orders is good, and try to do it to your best ability, but theres times where you gotta follow your gut on what to do since command will never know. Hell I've been advising command some rounds on what to do. I once heavily wounded and was still giving orders not too far from the battle and advising command on what to do. It worked too. You just gotta build a bond with you, command, your BO, and your men. Not ever a easy task but the more you do a specific system and the more often you pull off competence the better off you are. Especially when you get people in your squad repeat times since they'll follow what works.

Basically be Apone from Aliens.

(Note the binocs, TAKE THAT SHIT)

[Marcus Jackson]

SL is indeed a very stressful job. If you want to know how stressful, just jump on discord when I'm playing SL. Like I turn into sort of a asshole because there's alot of shit going on sometimes. That and survivor is another role that is stressful as fuck.

Honestly for SL you have to really push for the role yourself. Because its a completely different playstyle than being a grunt until your in the caves. At which point you should still be talking more than shooting. I've been getting some pretty good results so far. You've also got to actually think. Following orders is good, and try to do it to your best ability, but theres times where you gotta follow your gut on what to do since command will never know. Hell I've been advising command some rounds on what to do. I once heavily wounded and was still giving orders not too far from the battle and advising command on what to do. It worked too. You just gotta build a bond with you, command, your BO, and your men. Not ever a easy task but the more you do a specific system and the more often you pull off competence the better off you are. Especially when you get people in your squad repeat times since they'll follow what works.

Basically be Apone from Aliens.

(Note the binocs, TAKE THAT SHIT)

Apone is a living god, and he should be honored at the smithsonian or something. He died quick in the movie, but was supposed to live a lot longer in the film's script, that part where Vasques dies I think.

[Artouris]

I thought it was Dietrich and Vasquez who got switched around in life expectancy. Since Dietrich was suppose to very nearly make it to the dropship.

But yeah there's one thing you have to nail down as a SL is the spirit of Apone. Apone is a tough dude, but he knows when to joke around and stuff. But he loves what he does and makes sure everyone is doing stuff. Might seem alot like nagging, when shit goes down though it's easy to forget or get distracted.

[Miranda]

Best SL is the one that DON'T RUSH TO THE FRONTLINES just because they had a little better helmet and the one that actually GIVES ORDERS!

I tend to see that in most cases my SL just hangs out in FoB or die in the frontlines... and thats sad.
First case dead or badly wounded in like 10-20 minutes into the game, and not even from aliens but mostly for FF. SLs are eyes and brains of the squads they need to be in the back and give orders. Second case is MUTE OR SSD( we need to cryo SSD ones but what do we do with MUTE? Its too hard to actually get them demoted).

[Joe4444]

It's not that being an SL is a very difficult job... relay info, keep the squad together and organized, and occasionally shoot some aliens from the middle of your formation.

its a lot harder than this.sure,this is a big part of it but you gotta remember that you'll get blamed for every fuckup your squad does,if your squad doesn't speak what exactly can you do about that? you can't exactly fly over to their house and type for them now can you? I used to main SL for 6 months before getting fed up due to marines not following orders,running off ramboing or joining other squads for no apparent reason.

you also have to make quickfire descisions in the middle of the battle that could get people killed,you need to figure out when its best to retreat,when its best too advance,when its best to call for support,when its best to hunker down and defend,when its best to OB a position,when its best to call in a supply drop,when its best to spilt your squad up(hint:almost never) and when its best to rush to other squads aid or to stay and hold your objective,as ordered.

so yeah,there's a lot more going into being a SL than those.

[Marcus Jackson]

its a lot harder than this.sure,this is a big part of it but you gotta remember that you'll get blamed for every fuckup your squad does,if your squad doesn't speak what exactly can you do about that? you can't exactly fly over to their house and type for them now can you? I used to main SL for 6 months before getting fed up due to marines not following orders,running off ramboing or joining other squads for no apparent reason.

you also have to make quickfire descisions in the middle of the battle that could get people killed,you need to figure out when its best to retreat,when its best too advance,when its best to call for support,when its best to hunker down and defend,when its best to OB a position,when its best to call in a supply drop,when its best to spilt your squad up(hint:almost never) and when its best to rush to other squads aid or to stay and hold your objective,as ordered.

so yeah,there's a lot more going into being a SL than those.

Those examples are kind of a symptom from the treatment of SL's. Just because it's not a direct order from Command, some marines think they can go off and join another squad without repercussion. Or just because you see actual combat that Command thinks you are just a grunt with no tactical wits at all. Yes decision making as an SL is important, but it doesn't matter what decision you make if Command constantly overrides you, or your squad flat out ignores you simply because you got stuck with the title SL.

[XenonDragneel]

This is funny...

I am one of those Squad Leader mains...

Yes it's a VERY hard roles than my 3rd main Executive Officer...

It's hard to organize your mens on the ground. If 75% of the squad listen to you You are safe then. You need to call out commands status like "Hold position", "Standby for awaiting orders", "Move slowly forward", "Standards front, Spec back" something like this...

As a Squad lead you need to communicate and organize your mens. It's really hard but if you play Squad Lead and head. Straight to combat without 60% of communication then you are a terrible SL. Communication with command and RO is the most importants.

Oribital Bombardment Beacon... whew... you must be smart as fuck to use this... you need to coordinate very well and hear your surrounding area. Always try to use it on the Queen or group of xenos(+3)

(If my typo is bad then that means I am busy or on the phone lul, I still have more to tell)

[Sargeantmuffinman]

An SL horror story?

Alpha squad was supposed to help bravo with a push but the ENTIRE FUCKING SQUAD left the SL wondering where the fuck everyone is.

Alpha then regrouped at table fort to find the only bravo member which was the SL to run back alive.

Congrats alpha, I'm disappointed in you.

[XenonDragneel]

An SL horror story?

Alpha squad was supposed to help bravo with a push but the ENTIRE FUCKING SQUAD left the SL wondering where the fuck everyone is.

Alpha then regrouped at table fort to find the only bravo member which was the SL to run back alive.

Congrats alpha, I'm disappointed in you.

WO SL's horror story would be

FUCKING CHARLIE... all the damn time Charlie didn't do shit.

[skhul]

The only trouble i have now really is accepting the fact thay at least 10% of my squad will run off or do something else right from the start no matter what i do but once in a blue moon it works out just fine and everyone follows orders. Guess that's what makes every game special.

[Blazerules]

Was acting SL twice. Kept giving clear, simple orders to my squad and keeping radio contact with them. Most of them still failed to even pretend to follow orders and instead went out to join the squads fighting xenos while we were on FoB duty... Only good thing that came out of that was all those lads died pretty damn fast.

Would be nice if marines actually followed orders and kept close to the SL huh? Most the times they can't even hold a location without running off the second they hear there is an engagement.

Sadly there's nothing we can do about them. They aren't total baldies but they sure have a receding hairline I can say that for a fact.