Cut the stupid removals, please.

[MrGabol100]

Suggestion Title: Readd the removed objects.

Summary:Just readd the PDA and the welding helmet, they werent doing any harm, it was /YOU/, staff, and the players.

Benefits: People that liked this items will have it back, we will have the items good parts once again on the server and some players will be happier.

Details:

Readd PDA, it provided 2 tile light, added with the M4A1 Flaslight it maxed out the range of light you did.
Also gave crew mannifiest and /YOU/ made it worst, because you didn't put effort in making a working PDA messagery server.

Readd welding helmets, you removed them because of marines using them and getting to engineer to metaprotect from facehuggers, but they were stylish, useful and alternative to the helmets, gave the engineers STANDARD alternative to helmet, instead of taking hardsuit helmets or biohoods, pulling down the faceplate after seeing people get facehugged made TONS OF SENSE, and instead of banning them temporarily, putting it on the rules, you removed the object for no reason after all.

Also, a bit off topic, update the helmet facial hair option! You changed the helmet just to have the hide option off, and you didnt accomplish.


Implementation:
Just readd the removed code, you are just removing useful objects for human mistakes or not enforcing server rules.

[coroneljones]

The pda was usefull..even more when unknown went total verizon even when the aliens were winning and cut the power..the damn marines need to rely on penlights and maybe flashlights for squad marines.

Going - on the helmet

[Moiz]

PDA's are pretty useless, welding masks are pretty neat.

[razerwing]

Welding masks also take up a helmet slot that could be better used, have been abused in the past, and are generally unwieldy.
Welding goggles on the other hand leave helmet space open, can't really be abused, and are much much easier to use.

Also, PDA's are pretty damned useless.

[Youbar]

Welding masks also take up a helmet slot that could be better used, have been abused in the past, and are generally unwieldy.
Welding goggles on the other hand leave helmet space open, can't really be abused, and are much much easier to use.

Also, PDA's are pretty damned useless.

Welding goggles take up the eye slot that could be better used (optical meson scanners), are less identifiable compared to a welding helmet, and are generally forgettable due to their small icons. You'll really only remember them when you see your eyes being burned and wonder why.

Removing the welding mask was just a lazy and poor decision (not like they've done many of those /s) on the part of the CM staff. You'll find a majority of nerfs are on the colonial marines side (aliens never like a challenge, right?), and rarely on the alien side. Why? Because a little old admin comes along (probably one of those "respected" ones) and becomes an alien. Ultimately he is killed as that alien.
Why? Because of one of those darned welding mask imbeciles using game mechanics that have been in place for years to their advantage. So the "respected admin" whines and moans to the coders, to each other, until a group mentality forms and instead of taking the longer, more correct route, they just remove the welding masks from the game and replace them with welding goggles. No rules made or enforced, nothing.
You see, when an admin plays as an alien, they don't like being defeated or challenged, and will call up any bullshit excuse to find a way to make colonial marines worse. And then all the admins (aside from my dearest Apophis) march in single file to the alien hive, get facehugged, and have their challenge free excused by the game mechanics power trip.

Rant over.
FYI, IDs can be put into PDA, and also give out light. They were also useful for checking the crew manifest and how many able marines there are. They weren't useless. You just couldn't change your mentality to see the reason for their existence.

[Void00]

Welding goggles take up the eye slot that could be better used (optical meson scanners), are less identifiable compared to a welding helmet, and are generally forgettable due to their small icons. You'll really only remember them when you see your eyes being burned and wonder why.

Removing the welding mask was just a lazy and poor decision (not like they've done many of those /s) on the part of the CM staff. You'll find a majority of nerfs are on the colonial marines side (aliens never like a challenge, right?), and rarely on the alien side. Why? Because a little old admin comes along (probably one of those "respected" ones) and becomes an alien. Ultimately he is killed as that alien.
Why? Because of one of those darned welding mask imbeciles using game mechanics that have been in place for years to their advantage. So the "respected admin" whines and moans to the coders, to each other, until a group mentality forms and instead of taking the longer, more correct route, they just remove the welding masks from the game and replace them with welding goggles. No rules made or enforced, nothing.
You see, when an admin plays as an alien, they don't like being defeated or challenged, and will call up any bullshit excuse to find a way to make colonial marines worse. And then all the admins (aside from my dearest Apophis) march in single file to the alien hive, get facehugged, and have their challenge free excused by the game mechanics power trip.

Rant over.
FYI, IDs can be put into PDA, and also give out light. They were also useful for checking the crew manifest and how many able marines there are. They weren't useless. You just couldn't change your mentality to see the reason for their existence.

Your attitude is really unnerving.

Besides.

Helmets were abused and used.
There WAS a rule against meta-use of those.

PDA's ARE useless , as you need your ID to be visible , anyway, if you wish your armor to take the color of your squad.
The light-level of a PDA can be achieved (and effectively be better) whit a 2nd flashlight , you can fit one in your pocket.

You see, when an admin plays as an alien, they don't like being defeated or challenged, and will call up any bullshit excuse to find a way to make colonial marines worse. And then all the admins (aside from my dearest Apophis) march in single file to the alien hive, get facehugged, and have their challenge free excused by the game mechanics power trip.

Fun fact is , we , Administrators , Rarely , if ever , play.
And a lot of nerf's were given to the aliens (cannot take marines away whitout using the grab intent anyone ?).

If you are going to complain , do it in a civilized and inteligent manner , rather than "insulting" the staff , and accusing us of ruining your fun for "the sake of winning" .

[coroneljones]

The PDA was mostly useless,the flashlights gave more light i think,The only Jobs that would ever need it would be the LOs/MPs or Sulaco meds since they dont have access to Flashlights...maybe have a Spare box of PDAs in logistics for People that ask for them?

And the Helmet was really abused...and it withstood alot of huggers.
Then again..if you had it you would take alot more damage to the face so..The helmet one was a great update since we no longer have to monitor.EVERY.SINGLE.ENGINEER

[Youbar]

The PDA was mostly useless,the flashlights gave more light i think,The only Jobs that would ever need it would be the LOs/MPs or Sulaco meds since they dont have access to Flashlights...maybe have a Spare box of PDAs in logistics for People that ask for them?

And the Helmet was really abused...and it withstood alot of huggers.
Then again..if you had it you would take alot more damage to the face so..The helmet one was a great update since we no longer have to monitor.EVERY.SINGLE.ENGINEER

The PDAs may be "mostly useless", but it gave out two tiles of light at the cost of having to use two clicks to remove your ID instead of one. I think that's well worth the compromise.

Regarding the welding mask, I don't see it just wasn't nerfed down to 2-3 Facehugger HP. It's surely easier than removing it from every vending machine and the game as a whole. To be honest, the mask served as a way to help the engineer defend themselves when they had very little space to put ammunition and weapons (I only have around 2 free spaces if I play engineer). It wasn't overpowered. Why? Because I have never seen aliens lose a round to a bunch of welding mask marauders.

[razerwing]

The PDAs may be "mostly useless", but it gave out two tiles of light at the cost of having to use two clicks to remove your ID instead of one. I think that's well worth the compromise.

Regarding the welding mask, I don't see it just wasn't nerfed down to 2-3 Facehugger HP. It's surely easier than removing it from every vending machine and the game as a whole. To be honest, the mask served as a way to help the engineer defend themselves when they had very little space to put ammunition and weapons (I only have around 2 free spaces if I play engineer). It wasn't overpowered. Why? Because I have never seen aliens lose a round to a bunch of welding mask marauders.

Following this line of logic I've gone and highlighted in red, I suppose you've seen aliens lose to welder-bombers back before it was allowed/a bannable offense? Or maybe you've seen aliens lose to Chloral Hydrate abusers back before that became a no-no? And about your earlier post saying that it seems that admins and coders and developers have an alien bias, I've talked to quite a few people, both on the server and on other servers who have heard about this place from friends that the staff has a very obvious marine bias.

The welding masks were removed because meta, in any form, is not right. When it's seen it is taken care of. The removal of the welding masks, which had been discussed prior I believe, served to stop marine meta-gaming and abuse.

And one more thing. Just out of curiosity, when has an engineer ever gotten use out of an Optical Meson scanner? It was my belief that those things were useful to mining (which is not common practice on this server) and avoiding breaches (which shouldn't be an issue since they can be repair, and really shouldn't be an issue in the first place). What makes the removal of the PDA and Welding Mask so damned awful that you find it necessary to attack the development team, the mods, and coders and go on a little rant?

[MrGabol100]

Welding goggles take up the eye slot that could be better used (optical meson scanners), are less identifiable compared to a welding helmet, and are generally forgettable due to their small icons. You'll really only remember them when you see your eyes being burned and wonder why.

Removing the welding mask was just a lazy and poor decision (not like they've done many of those /s) on the part of the CM staff. You'll find a majority of nerfs are on the colonial marines side (aliens never like a challenge, right?), and rarely on the alien side. Why? Because a little old admin comes along (probably one of those "respected" ones) and becomes an alien. Ultimately he is killed as that alien.
Why? Because of one of those darned welding mask imbeciles using game mechanics that have been in place for years to their advantage. So the "respected admin" whines and moans to the coders, to each other, until a group mentality forms and instead of taking the longer, more correct route, they just remove the welding masks from the game and replace them with welding goggles. No rules made or enforced, nothing.
You see, when an admin plays as an alien, they don't like being defeated or challenged, and will call up any bullshit excuse to find a way to make colonial marines worse. And then all the admins (aside from my dearest Apophis) march in single file to the alien hive, get facehugged, and have their challenge free excused by the game mechanics power trip.

Rant over.
FYI, IDs can be put into PDA, and also give out light. They were also useful for checking the crew manifest and how many able marines there are. They weren't useless. You just couldn't change your mentality to see the reason for their existence.

You just explained my point so good I just rated your comment, all you said is just marvelous, some admin is whining around nerfing the marines choosing the easy path, removing welding mask instead of talking with abusers, removing PDAs instead of adding a messaging server... Seriously, this is bullshitty, and i loved all of your points.

---

About you, admins, you are ganging on us, giving little to zero points at all, just saying that the helmet was metagamed, but not doing nothing about it, you removed it, so instead of punishing the player or making it less powerful, you removed it punishing all of the players.

The PDA /IS/ useful, Pajamarines rely on the PDA on alien attacks, if you just added a messaging server, also, LOs and MPs NEED the PDA to see the crew manifiest, and it's just stupid that it was removed because you need to do a right click on it every time you want your ID, you just do it and that's it.

It's: More light, messaging and crew manifiest against one extra click...

Not everyone can get extra flaslights, also, it takes one extra slot, and the PDA fits in the ID slot.

You dont care enough to add messaging server, so it's kinda your fault.

And again, instead of punishing the metagamers, or not MG at all, because im sure some of these engineers did know about huggers before using the helmet/mask, you just removed a object, stylish, that helps to notice the engineer, that shows your facial hair, useful, and balanced, since you see less wearing it.

[Allan1234]

You just explained my point so good I just rated your comment, all you said is just marvelous, some admin is whining around nerfing the marines choosing the easy path, removing welding mask instead of talking with abusers, removing PDAs instead of adding a messaging server... Seriously, this is bullshitty, and i loved all of your points.

Actually most CM staff including me WANT OP aliens because they make more sense lore wise and it forces the marines to work with tactics, HOWEVER it is the players who are yelling at us to nerf them, then when we DO nerf them People like you get pissed off and tell us it was a bad move then go on a rant.

Regarding the welding mask, I don't see it just wasn't nerfed down to 2-3 Facehugger HP. It's surely easier than removing it from every vending machine and the game as a whole. To be honest, the mask served as a way to help the engineer defend themselves when they had very little space to put ammunition and weapons (I only have around 2 free spaces if I play engineer). It wasn't overpowered. Why? Because I have never seen aliens lose a round to a bunch of welding mask marauders.

Because the welding mask Covers the face spot and still protects against Facehugers. The engineers can easily wear a stranded marine helmet with goggles. No it was not OP it was abused by people and therefor it is being removed, like genetics.

emoving the welding mask was just a lazy and poor decision (not like they've done many of those /s) on the part of the CM staff. You'll find a majority of nerfs are on the colonial marines side (aliens never like a challenge, right?), and rarely on the alien side. Why? Because a little old admin comes along (probably one of those "respected" ones) and becomes an alien. Ultimately he is killed as that alien.

We NEVER do that and you are making assumptions that are just starting to piss me off, Alien nurfing decisions are because Players yell at us to nerf them and when we do as stated before people like you yell at us for it. No decisions we make are Bais towards what has Happened In-game to a admin they are based off player majority and admin observation.

Why? Because of one of those darned welding mask imbeciles using game mechanics that have been in place for years to their advantage. So the "respected admin" whines and moans to the coders, to each other, until a group mentality forms and instead of taking the longer, morecorrectroute, they just remove the welding masks from the game and replace them with welding goggles. No rules made or enforced, nothing.

Actually i was there when it happened, The decision was a joint admin decision because we CANT enforce the meta rule against it, and yes there IS a rule it is counted under meta because it covers a face slot, now if people did not run around with the helmet down it would not be a issue but people do they also bring it down when they see aliens in order to stop face huggers, Which they have no idea what they are.

[MrGabol100]

Actually most CM staff including me WANT OP aliens because they make more sense lore wise and it forces the marines to work with tactics, HOWEVER it is the players who are yelling at us to nerf them, then when we DO nerf them People like you get pissed off and tell us it was a bad move then go on a rant.

Because the welding mask Covers the face spot and still protects against Facehugers. The engineers can easily wear a stranded marine helmet with goggles. No it was not OP it was abused by people and therefor it is being removed, like genetics.

We NEVER do that and you are making assumptions that are just starting to piss me off, Alien nurfing decisions are because Players yell at us to nerf them and when we do as stated before people like you yell at us for it. No decisions we make are Bais towards what has Happened In-game to a admin they are based off player majority and admin observation.

Actually i was there when it happened, The decision was a joint admin decision because we CANT enforce the meta rule against it, and yes there IS a rule it is counted under meta because it covers a face slot, now if people did not run around with the helmet down it would not be a issue but people do they also bring it down when they see aliens in order to stop face huggers, Which they have no idea what they are.

I also do have a counter attack: Lore wise? Then approve the 99 bullet M4A1 suggestion, without bullet nerfing, or work out the weapons burst, or just leave the helmets as they are, readd hardsuit helmets, do laser pistol sprites, nerf the alien warriors to be killed in a few shots, give the marines 300 bullets M4A1 mod instead of SAW, and etc...

Dont say that you OP aliens for lore-wise, because you dont do it for the marines.

---

Can you please, and I mean, FUCKING PLEASE, Remove all the protection the welding helmet gives and readd it?

It's just fucking stupid no one is considering this here, including me, or just as a choice between helmet and goggles, I personally preffer helmet.

[razerwing]

I also do have a counter attack: Lore wise? Then approve the 99 bullet M4A1 suggestion, without bullet nerfing, or work out the weapons burst, or just leave the helmets as they are, readd hardsuit helmets, do laser pistol sprites, nerf the alien warriors to be killed in a few shots, give the marines 300 bullets M4A1 mod instead of SAW, and etc...

Dont say that you OP aliens for lore-wise, because you dont do it for the marines.

I don't think I've seen a post thus far that's gotten under my skin quite as much as this one.

Your idea was shot down because it wouldn't work. There are known issues with the burst-fire codes. This isn't the only server that decided against using the damned thing. God help us if you bring this up every time someone mentions OP or LORE around you. It also seems that this conversation will be getting us nowhere, so let me just say this real quick.

Quoth Apophis: "1. All the complaining in the world, won't get me to put them back
2. There were NEVER messenger servers on the Sulaco
3. All marines get a FREE flashlight, that is MUCH better.
4. They interferred with Armor/Helmet code, and caused lag as a result
5. DEAL WITH IT."

You want to argue that PDA's are useful to pajamarines? I beg to differ, and I will contest this all the way to the ends of the bloody earth. PDA's are useless. LO's don't need them because they have the computers. Pajamarines don't need them, they need guns (read: The Armory). Commanders MAY WANT them, for commanding reasons, but other than that they served little to no purpose. They took up space. They caused lag. They didn't provide enough light to do Jack-Shit with. The benefits of getting rid of them outweighed the benefits of keeping them.

As for the Welding Masks, don't attack the staff for mistakes made by other people. The admins and everyone else who works on this server has a damn good reason for the things they do to keep things balanced. If they saw fit to get rid of the welding masks because asshats decided to abuse the masks, then it's your job to man the hell up and deal. You say you want it around because it's stylish and easy to tell an engineer from another marine? Wear the damned backpacks and answer the radio when someone calls for an Engineer. Fact is you don't NEED to tell an Engineer apart from the rest at a glance. They make themselves known when a door needs opened, walls need building, or an engine needs set up. They are not medics, they are not SL's.

Edit: Mr Gabol, quite honestly personal preference means nothing here. You prefer the helmet because it looks better. We prefer the goggles because it keeps the rules intact.

[MrGabol100]

I give up, do as you please, but ganging on players with all the staff wont get complaints anywhere, i think you gave good points, but i think if it's doable, you can remove the protection and add the mask again as an IC preference between goggles and headgear.

[OliverCarswell]

I'm not quoting Razer here, but this thread could be formulated a lot better, rather than bashing Apophis into the never-land of Hell.

He did it because it took up a spot, big frickin deal. Check in with your friendly neighborhood LO, and ask "Gosh, LO, how many members do I have? By the by, I'm [Squad] Lead."

It's really not that hard to find a substitute solution to the "problem".

Edit:

And on terms of the removal of the welding helmet, I'd say good fucking riddance.

The things were annoying, and rather OP in my own opinion. Engineers took /way/ more hits than any average grunt, which seemed unfair.

Editedit:

Heck, even HiT took less hits before being incapped.

[apophis775]

Locking this. If you can't be civil, then don't post.

Also, I'll give my reasoning for the changes, because you know, I don't just fucking wake up and think "EHHHHH FUCK IT REMOVE PDAS TROLOLOLOL". No. I have a DEGREE in game design, 1 game published I worked on, another on the way, and I teach Game Design at a college.

Welding Helmets were removed, for the primary reason, of it being a VERY common player request. A LOT of people, were asking for the helmets to be replaced with goggles, also, it was done to create minor balance. Mostly, people were asking for the head slot to be opened up, and there were some cases of abusing the helmets. Rather than code the helmets to function as standard helmets, with the health/removal system, I decided it would be easier to just replace them in the Sulaco Vendor. I mean, the helmets are still IN THE GAME, and you can find them if you look.

PDAS, were removed for a variety of reasons:
1. They interfered with armor coloring and UpdateArmor/Update Helmet procs and created LAG as well as slowed the Master Controller per tick.
2. They were mostly discarded by a majority of the marines
3. And LO can simply look at their computer, and get a list of everyone, making them redundant. If you want a list of your squad, ask the LO to just print you one.


Neither the Welding Masks, nor the PDAs will be returning to the game, ever.