Speed nerf, community opinion and civil speach

[Sarah_U.]

I'm quickly putting this up for people to voice their opinion, both as alien and marine.

I want constructive criticizm, good analyzis and experienced remarks. Please refrain from quickly throwing personal judgement or feeling, keep it civil, keep it nice to others.
This post is not meant for shitpost, it's to find a constructive way to give ideas on how to revert the change or how to balance it. I am Xeno main and actually enjoyed previous balance, but see the appeal of slowing marines to increase their coordination.
My two suggestions are:
Give possible late-game armor that counter the change by boosting marines.
Keep the change, but further enhance cohesion by granting marines an HUD icon for their respective squad members and their ranks above their heads.

Also, this is meant to keep mchat clean.

PS: I suggested in suggestions the armor part, someone else suggested the rank thing. I also suggested to allow public showcase of win/loss ratios for the public, but it was denied, so please do not request it as there's valid reasons behind that (Except if the decision has changed, thus, asking again).

[Feweh]

The changes wont be reverted, youre open to discuss them but we've extensively discussed this in a meeting and over the past week.

[dylanstrategie]

As always, keep it civil, keep it calm. The speed nerf isn't the work of some developer insurgents or an error, it was thoroughly discussed, pros and cons were weighted, balance impact has been considered

We're open to suggestions, although after all the discussion we've had in meeting, "just revert it" is probably not going to sway us unless the gameplay impact has been atrocious. And so far, things have gone well. Marines are not prey, but they're certainly a bit more vulnerable than before

[Derpislav]

Keep the aiming down sights slowdown, but make marines overall slightly faster, so that even with the slowdown they're moving at almost pre-update speeds.
Instead, buff alien speed severely.

SS13 is a clunky engine that takes a solid bit of masochism to enjoy, and reducing movement speed makes it even worse. The issue is marines moving too fast compared to aliens, not too fast in general. So boost aliens.

[Sailor Dave]

It would be appreciated if the community was told why these changes were necessary. In the overall scope of the changes in the past few weeks or so, they've been almost entirely marine nerfs. Even if they're discussed in meetings by staff, the players have no idea what brought on these changes. This update in particular feels only like a slog for the marines. I don't even play marine, and I know I wouldn't find this enjoyable to experience or fight against.

[Sarah_U.]

I think I posted a suggestion about increasing accuracy when you stand still and lowering it when you move too much. Walking giving you an edge as well. That'd actually be SUPER NICE for both tactic and gameplay as people would be much more lined to standing still and also working together to cover eachothers as they push one after the other.

Real life SWAT breaches consider the fact that one person push, the other covers, then enter as the third ends the march. With such mechanic that kind of behavior could be seen more often, which I'd love to fight against even as pred or xeno.

Stuff like that.

[Feweh]

It would be appreciated if the community was told why these changes were necessary. In the overall scope of the changes in the past few weeks or so, they've been almost entirely marine nerfs. Even if they're discussed in meetings by staff, the players have no idea what brought on these changes. This update in particular feels only like a slog for the marines. I don't even play marine, and I know I wouldn't find this enjoyable to experience or fight against.

The winrate has been 50/50 essentially, this was determined with proper filtering to sort out low pop rounds and rounds that ended before 60 minute.

Its a logical lore wise that xenos are speedier and it was done to balance out other mechanics which over time have become too strong.

[Derpislav]

Its a logical lore wise that xenos are speedier and it was done to balance out other mechanics which over time have become too strong.

Why weren't xenos made speedier then? That would directly address the issue and there would be no outrage if speed=accuracy adjustments were added only afterwards.

[Renomaki]

My hope is that with the update, we'll see less marines fleeing from their squads to hunt xenos and more squad-based gameplay, with marines sticking close together and hive assaults consisting of a large, slow wall of marines rather than marines darting all over the place and thinning out.

The speed adjustment will drastically change combat for the marines, and hopefully will make squads SQUADS, and not just gaggles of marines that believe sticking with the group is optional.

[Renomaki]

It would be appreciated if the community was told why these changes were necessary. In the overall scope of the changes in the past few weeks or so, they've been almost entirely marine nerfs. Even if they're discussed in meetings by staff, the players have no idea what brought on these changes. This update in particular feels only like a slog for the marines. I don't even play marine, and I know I wouldn't find this enjoyable to experience or fight against.

The reason marines had their speed adjusted was because it had become a bad habit for marines to chase down xenos and slaughter them with a spray of bullets, even without hypinzine.

Marines being as fast as most xenos and being able to run and gun with ease was something that needed to change, and honestly, it isn't that bad. It just means now you have to know when to hold your gun with both hands instead of having it in firing mode all the time and spraying and praying. But then again, that is just me.

... Or you could use an SMG, which doesn't slow you down due to being a one handed weapon.

[Telegnats]

I sincerely doubt that any speed changes will actively make marines more likely to stay in groups.

The winrate has been 50/50 essentially, this was determined with proper filtering to sort out low pop rounds and rounds that ended before 60 minute.

Its a logical lore wise that xenos are speedier and it was done to balance out other mechanics which over time have become too strong.

I'm also concerned that the only outcome of these 'extensive discussions' was that the win rate needs to be changed and the best justification available is lore.

[Karmac]

My own opinion on this are as follows:

- It will promote better tactics, weapon loadouts and squad cohesion for the Marines, you are no longer capable of literally running from death, you will need to prepare counter-measures for it, facing Carriers? Move VERY slowly and keep your guns on single fire to take out any huggers thrown your way, he'll run out eventually, and your more likely to move past a hugger than actually get hit by a thrown one. As for Boilers? Stay close to your squad, but not too close, when the boiler acid lands you scatter and regroup as quickly as possible.

- It will (hopefully) lead to more aggressive xeno pushes, coming with the realization that positions have swapped and marines will now be the turtle-heavy force, I expect this to cause xeno majors due to terrible retreats on the marines behalf and xenos being considerably faster, and marine majors due to xenos grasping at the reality that is their new-found speed yet applying no tactics to it and getting themselves killed very early on in the round. In any case it should definitely mean rounds will end sooner.

- Metarushing. I know it's not on everyone's mind, but now that marines KNOW the server time, and KNOW they are slower than xeno and as such will most likely lose sight of them before an unlucky runner drags them up to the river and incites a metarush, these should be happening a lot less often, with how dangerous xeno are marines should really be moving carefully and slowly around the Hydro/Medical area, and being there near round start is just asking for trouble, a failed Hydro defence, a warning about metarushing and a retreat to your non-existant FOB, if you even make it there with your new-found slowness.

I know alot of people won't like these opinions or believe them to be true at all, but that's how I see it right now.

[Desolane900]

Or we can just dump our armor and go zerg rush xenos with knives. GOTTA GO FAST.

[tempchar]

I have a habit where I only two hand my gun when I am about to shoot something, because otherwise I am paranoid to hell that I will accidentally left click and friendly fire a teammate. Good to know that my habit will finally become useful.

Also I really don't believe that this change will promote more teamwork and sticking together. Remember the nerf to all light sources that was supposed to do just that? In the end we will just have Boris Kamerer and his new MLG macro that perfectly wields/unwields his weapon in between shots for maximum speed output.

Also gyroscope is the new meta boyyyyyy.

[RadiantFlash]

So, what I've discovered, from the few rounds with the nerf I got to see today, is some changes to playstyle, some good, some bad.
1: Severe decrease in ramboing. It's practically nonexistant now, with slow speed. Ramboing=death.
2: Highly improved squad cohesion. Squadmates are sticking together or sticking with marines from other squads and helping each other now, which is good.

---

Unfortantely the bad sideffects cause some problems.
1: Marines can no longer dodge. Slow= unable to dodge crusher stomps, queen screechs, ravager charges, and perhaps most important, spit. I saw praetorians and spitters tear marines an absolute new one, with the ability to hit slower targets.
2: It absolutely destroys the marines offensive ability. You know how we always talked about the issue of marines turtling? well, We sorta fucked that up now. Marines can seemingly not build up momentum in attacks. Because of reduced speed, their assault is less punishing for any overextending xenos, and they can't push as far as they used to, due to slower speed. This breaks marines attacks, every time.
Every single attack across the river, during the rounds I saw, didn't get past 7 tiles past the coast inwards. Even a four squad push got repelled fairly easily.
This of course, doesn't mean marines won't win. But they won't win planetside, or atleast, won't win by attacking. What the new meta will be is impossible to guess, but you can assume it'll be playing defensive.

This may be my premeptive assumption, buuut I'm predicting marine wins to drop sharply, and only win by sulaco defence, or overextending the xenos when defending the FOB.

---

Honestly, I'm not sure whether the pros out weight the cons here, it's hard to decide.

[Skane10634]

SNIP

I would say the cons do outweigh the pros here, because if I understand you correctly the marines have no chance whatsoever of winning on the ground, which is a massive issue, in my mind at least. They shouldn't always win on the ground or always lose on the Sulaco, there should be a balance which I'm not seeing.

[RadiantFlash]

I would say the cons do outweigh the pros here, because if I understand you correctly the marines have no chance whatsoever of winning on the ground, which is a massive issue, in my mind at least. They shouldn't always win on the ground or always lose on the Sulaco, there should be a balance which I'm not seeing.

Well, Not exactly. Sure theres chances for out liers, depending on the marins behavior and the aliens. And four rounds isn't enough to determin all the effects of a nerf/buff, But from what i'm seeing, marine assaults are going to be a struggling uphill battle. Odds are marine wins on the planet will be from a good FOB, and a stellar defence.
Sure I'm expecting some marine assaults to push through, if only from alien incompetence, luck, and surprising bouts of marine skill, but again, lower speed hurts that.

[Skane10634]

Well, Not exactly. Sure theres chances for out liers, depending on the marins behavior and the aliens. And four rounds isn't enough to determin all the effects of a nerf/buff, But from what i'm seeing, marine assaults are going to be a struggling uphill battle. Odds are marine wins on the planet will be from a good FOB, and a stellar defence.
Sure I'm expecting some marine assaults to push through, if only from alien incompetence, luck, and surprising bouts of marine skill, but again, lower speed hurts that.

Perhaps instead of nerfing base speed, increase the speed penalty on armour? So say your bleeding out and if you dont get back quick you will die, so you throw your armour down and start sprinting, for example

[Derpislav]

Or perhaps instead of decreasing marine speed, increase alien speed.

[LocalizedDownpour]

Or perhaps instead of decreasing marine speed, increase alien speed.

You've said this 1000 times. Yet none address it.

[RadiantFlash]

You've said this 1000 times. Yet none address it.

I don't adress it, because I can't understand the dev's reasoning on this without them telling us. It does seem like a better way to handle it.

[Sarah_U.]

Perhaps instead of nerfing base speed, increase the speed penalty on armour? So say your bleeding out and if you dont get back quick you will die, so you throw your armour down and start sprinting, for example

From what I understood, it's based on the fact you wear armor and have a gun wielded in hand. Otherwise I would actually rather have that to the very least compared to a general nerf.

[Feweh]

You've said this 1000 times. Yet none address it.

We do not desire for speeds to be increased anymore.
Of we increased xenos then we'd have to increase predators and gameplay would be moving too fast.

Its very logical really if you think about. Things start to get very illogical after awhile if everything is zipping around the screen.

[Sarah_U.]

Perhaps we could provide with resin walker for every slow moving xenos so that they would also be incited into securing ground before pushing.
Then, marines could get a tweak to their speed so it'd return a tad bit higher, no? I mean, frenzied resin walkers are relatively fast.

[jaggaaff]

Give Marines a "scout" version of their M3 armor (no/little speed debuff but lower protection) like what appears in the sniper boxes for specialists, if you're intent to keep the marine speed nerf, that way the gameplay style I'd like to call "Aggressive" (Not a rambo, but rather one who is in the front most of the times and takes more risk. For example, going after a xeno whos been hit multiple times and is near critical to finish off.)