Allow marines to rush if xenos build north of the river.

[Toroic]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary): If xenos are building north of the river and outside of the caves, let marines rush at-will.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole): Xenos are leaning on a crutch, which is that if they build a huge obvious wall marines don't immediately attack because they're afraid of being bwoinked. This strategy usually kills off half the hive despite the OOC crutch.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc): That's pretty much it.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it): If xenos are building outside north of the river, marines have no restrictions on when they can assault. Basically just staff not intervening.

[Karmac]

Make the cut-off length to roughly the middle of table-fort and you should be fine, you need to wander a bit north of the river before you actually see anything there, meaning the marine is either a blatant metarusher or a genuine baldie. The distance also means the marines can't be led there by silly xeno, due to new speeds meaning you can't follow a xeno and 'accidentally find the hive'.

[NoahKirchner]

I feel like this can ruin strategies that involve building north of the river, but don't involve the xenos being stupid as you mention. Also, I am generally against staff intervention wherever it can be avoided, and this is a big example of more stuff that you must have staff involved with each round.

-1

[Toroic]

I feel like this can ruin strategies that involve building north of the river, but don't involve the xenos being stupid as you mention. Also, I am generally against staff intervention wherever it can be avoided, and this is a big example of more stuff that you must have staff involved with each round.

-1

If your strategy involves building north of the river, it should take into account you being attacked ASAP.

Make the cut-off length to roughly the middle of table-fort and you should be fine, you need to wander a bit north of the river before you actually see anything there, meaning the marine is either a blatant metarusher or a genuine baldie. The distance also means the marines can't be led there by silly xeno, due to new speeds meaning you can't follow a xeno and 'accidentally find the hive'.

That is an acceptable compromise.

[NoahKirchner]

If your strategy involves building north of the river, it should take into account you being attacked ASAP.

I agree that the xenos being dumb and building just north of the river every... single... round is a problem, but I don't think it's a problem that the staff should be brought into solve because, in the end, it gives less choices to the xeno queen and hive in general. This also means that a drone or hivelord who builds just north of the river and is not listening to the queen could, alone, end up killing the entire hive by metarush 30 minutes into the round.

[doodeeda]

I feel like this can ruin strategies that involve building north of the river, but don't involve the xenos being stupid as you mention. Also, I am generally against staff intervention wherever it can be avoided, and this is a big example of more stuff that you must have staff involved with each round.

-1

Doesn't this suggestion limit staff intervention..?

[Toroic]

I agree that the xenos being dumb and building just north of the river every... single... round is a problem, but I don't think it's a problem that the staff should be brought into solve because, in the end, it gives less choices to the xeno queen and hive in general. This also means that a drone or hivelord who builds just north of the river and is not listening to the queen could, alone, end up killing the entire hive by metarush 30 minutes into the round.

This is actually the opposite of bringing staff into it. Currently the anti-metarush time is enforced only by staff intervention. With this, marines are allowed the natural response, as they are given when xenos nest south of the river.

[NoahKirchner]

Doesn't this suggestion limit staff intervention..?

No, it makes staff have to intervene more because they must dictate whenever defenses north of the river are enough to rush, not enough to rush, and any problems that result from that (like a drone who builds minor defenses on the river, causing a metarush, that the entire hive gets salty about, or the marines seeing some defenses built by a drone and the entire marine team being across the river 30 minutes in)

[Durper]

+1

I don't know if this would work butAfter thinking about it a little, yeah this could work.--

It just really bothers me that there's always an OOC (admin intervention) threat in a valid reason (an IC valid reason) to investigate and retaliate an unknown entity that might be a threat to the marines.

[Toroic]

No, it makes staff have to intervene more because they must dictate whenever defenses north of the river are enough to rush, not enough to rush, and any problems that result from that (like a drone who builds minor defenses on the river, causing a metarush, that the entire hive gets salty about, or the marines seeing some defenses built by a drone and the entire marine team being across the river 30 minutes in)

Pretty easy to determine. If you can see stuff built north of the river, then you're good to go.

[NoahKirchner]

Pretty easy to determine. If you can see stuff built north of the river, then you're good to go.

Ok, but what if there's a drone who decided that they wanna build some dumb defenses just north of the bridge, even though the queen did not decide it? This gives one t1 caste the ability to ruin an entire round for the hive, and knowing the type of drones I've had on my team whenever I've played queen, that's not an ability that I'd ever want to see a drone have.

[Durper]

Ok, but what if there's a drone who decided that they wanna build some dumb defenses just north of the bridge, even though the queen did not decide it? This gives one t1 caste the ability to ruin an entire round for the hive, and knowing the type of drones I've had on my team whenever I've played queen, that's not an ability that I'd ever want to see a drone have.

That would be the drones fault for not obeying the Queen, drone gets banned or learns not to do it anymore, more drones would obey the Queen in the future because they know the consequences of disobedience(i.e banned/warning and hive dies).

and as a result more ayys obey the Queen more often.

[NoahKirchner]

That would be the drones fault for not obeying the Queen, drone gets banned or learns not to do it anymore, more drones would obey the Queen in the future because they know the consequences of disobedience(i.e banned/warning and hive dies).

Xenos don't get banned whenever they disobey orders, they NORMALLY just die without a word, but if their stupidity and inability to follow orders then gets the entire hive killed, that's a much bigger problem. Ontop of this, that will also require a lot of moderation because the mods/admins will have to ask any drones about any defenses built north of the river if the queen did not explicitly order it, or if the queen's order got lost in a sea of text.

[Durper]

Xenos don't get banned whenever they disobey orders, they NORMALLY just die without a word, but if their stupidity and inability to follow orders then gets the entire hive killed, that's a much bigger problem. Ontop of this, that will also require a lot of moderation because the mods/admins will have to ask any drones about any defenses built north of the river if the queen did not explicitly order it, or if the queen's order got lost in a sea of text.

But that's the mods job to make sure the Hive obeys the Queen, letting drones build where the Queen tells them not to is breaking the rules because of disobedience. Overtime Xeno's would learn not to build early near the river and Obey the Queen more.

[NoahKirchner]

But that's the mods job to make sure the Hive obeys the Queen, letting drones build where the Queen tells them not to is breaking the rules because of disobedience. Overtime Xeno's would learn not to build early near the river.

Ya, it's against the rules, but runners going across the river and senselessly dying for no good reason is ALSO against the rules, and no action is taken against that. This then, as you said, requires the mods to keep a lot more of an eye on the xenos (I would assume that they generally watch the marines because of the xenos, until they board the sulaco, being rather low-maintenance rule wise). Also, old drones will know not to build north of the river, but baldie drones or stupid drones will still do it anyway, effectively ruining a round through their incompetence, even if they're punished.

[Durper]

Ya, it's against the rules, but runners going across the river and senselessly dying for no good reason is ALSO against the rules, and no action is taken against that. This then, as you said, requires the mods to keep a lot more of an eye on the xenos (I would assume that they generally watch the marines because of the xenos, until they board the sulaco, being rather low-maintenance rule wise). Also, old drones will know not to build north of the river, but baldie drones or stupid drones will still do it anyway, effectively ruining a round through their incompetence, even if they're punished.

Runners dying across river isn't against the rules unless the Queen says not to cross the river, if they die they die by there own not with the entire hive, no action is taken because they're already punished IC'ly via death of their ayy.

Drones building early right on the river beach is different because if the Queen says not to they won't just endanger themselves but the entire hive as well because they're making it pretty obvious were the ayy's base is located. This versus a runner dying across river is pretty worthy of staff moderation and observation and they can see easily if the drones are building at the river making it simple for the staff to see it happening.

[TheMusician321]

+1, seeing a large resinous structure where there shouldn't be one should be enough justification.

[YungCuz]

You do not understand how annoyed i get when xenos wanna be so damn obvious with resin structures and it just drags marines right to them.
+1 So my life isnt hell trying to deal with stupid shit like this.

[Jeser]

Yeah, +1 for this. We need as less situations, when you need ruin RP by not behaving in a logical way because of OOC rules.

[Szunti]

- Queen, why can't we build outside the caves?
- Marines will come from the sky and assault the hive if you do so. We live in the caves, make it secure first.
Nicely forcing Queen to use metaknowledge.

Otherwise I agree with NoahKirchner. We don't need inflexible rules.

[Joe4444]

- Queen, why can't we build outside the caves?
- Marines will come from the sky and assault the hive if you do so. We live in the caves, make it secure first.
Nicely forcing Queen to use metaknowledge.

Otherwise I agree with NoahKirchner. We don't need inflexible rules.

.....that's the EXACT fucking reason the queen should use...if your street was being attacked who's house would YOU and your family barricade first? your house or you next door neighbours house?

[Durper]

- Queen, why can't we build outside the caves?
- Marines will come from the sky and assault the hive if you do so. We live in the caves, make it secure first.
Nicely forcing Queen to use metaknowledge.

Otherwise I agree with NoahKirchner. We don't need inflexible rules.

That goes for the Xeno's too why would they need to heavily fortify the beach in that specific area that early on? why not the entire cave system, IC wise it would make sense to fortify everything in the caves first because it's easily defendable with rock walls and tight corners, instead of fortifying a wide open space of sand with no walls. Fortifying river beach is also metaknowledge.

And even if ayys do try to fortify the river beach it encourages the marines to investigate and find out where the Xeno's are located. This is a massive threat to the hive.

[Reuben Owen]

off topic but can we just put grass or something just above the river to prevent them building literally 1 square from it

i think map change is the only way this kind of thing will stop

[Durper]

off topic but can we just put grass or something just above the river to prevent them building literally 1 square from it

i think map change is the only way this kind of thing will stop

Try making a suggestion topic, but putting grass north of river is like a nerf for Xeno's because it takes away potential areas to resin later in the game.

[Eenkogneeto]

I'm mostly against this because I find it odd how rapidly marines who have probably already seen friends decapitated or melted to goo by a single alien would gladly rush headfirst into a dark resin hellscape with hostiles all around as soon as they see it, often before a FOB is even established or supply lines created.
In short, The metarush rule is to prevent the marines throwing, and preserve RP/immersion. as much as to prevent the ayys getting stomped.