Doctors and guns

[Zartam]

So, I was PM'd by a mentor for using a pulse rifle as a CMO. Understand it's against rules and dropped it. Got killed by a ravager soon after.

I wasn't in Medical, I was in hangar infirmary so it's probably my fault I died. Right ?
Except all marines were dead and only me and another doc were available to heal remaining crew fighters during the RASP-full-of-xenos arrival to hangar.

Should have I kept the pulse rifle, or dropped it and abandoned hangar and got back to medical ? Or can this situation be considered as "Imminent danger" as stated in the rules, which allows a doctor to grab a big weapon.

Xeno major victory happened like 30 seconds later, so I would have died horribly in medical anyway. Just thought it was legitimate to participate in hangar battle. And the pulse rifle was the only weapon I found (no gun available).

In another wording, isn't a doctor allowed to grab a big gun if the Sulaco is screwed AND no doctors are available to help the fighters, except you ?

[NoahKirchner]

Your main goal as a doctor is to heal. If you would've needed the pulse rifle to get back to medbay, to make sure that /in that moment/, you don't die, or to make sure that someone you're caring for doesn't die, you're fine.

What this mainly tries to prevent is doctors fighting on the front lines during a hangar defense.

[Zartam]

In my opinion, medical crew should be allowed to participate in hangar defense IF all squad medics are dead. Hangar has got an infirmary. But this is probably an unpopular opinion.

[NoahKirchner]

They can participate, just not as combatants. Their job is to heal.

[Zartam]

Rules state that doctors can use weapons in situation of danger. This is controversial as the danger is not defined. Whether the doctor's action is legitimate or not, there will be someone to brag about it, and this is toxic for roleplaying.

[Jroinc1]

Okay. Here's as close to an official ruling as I can give-

Going into a dangerous situation just to use the danger clause to use the big guns is a no.
Going into a dangerous situation to do your job (healing) is fine.
While in the dangerous situation, do your job. Your job is to heal. You can't do that with both hands full of pulse-rifle.
Don't abandon your job to shoot with the big guns unless you're the only one who can shoot (EVERYONE else is down).

Doctors are allowed a handgun at all times. It only takes up one hand. You can do your job with the other while plinking away at ayys.
Don't mix those hands up, though.

In that SPECIFIC situation (No medics, 2 doctors, few 'rines), I would suggest you grab a SMG with the other doc, then concentrate on healing. If you HAVE to shoot, you have a heavier weapon, but one you can carry without impeding your primary job (QC, tricord, advanced trauma kits, splints...).

[Rain7x]

Okay. Here's as close to an official ruling as I can give-

Going into a dangerous situation just to use the danger clause to use the big guns is a no.
Going into a dangerous situation to do your job (healing) is fine.
While in the dangerous situation, do your job. Your job is to heal. You can't do that with both hands full of pulse-rifle.
Don't abandon your job to shoot with the big guns unless you're the only one who can shoot (EVERYONE else is down).

Doctors are allowed a handgun at all times. It only takes up one hand. You can do your job with the other while plinking away at ayys.
Don't mix those hands up, though.

In that SPECIFIC situation (No medics, 2 doctors, few 'rines), I would suggest you grab a SMG with the other doc, then concentrate on healing. If you HAVE to shoot, you have a heavier weapon, but one you can carry without impeding your primary job (QC, tricord, advanced trauma kits, splints...).

Pretty much this.

[apophis775]

As a doctor, you get a pistol. You can, in an immediate danger situation grab a weapon from the ground and fire it to save your life and the life of others near you if everyone is on the ground. But you can't be running around with the weapon or front line fighting. Your goal is to get the enemy to leave. Not necessarily kill them. Your a doctor, with the primary job of healing, not a combat medic.

[Sad_Corn]

As apophis said, you can carry a pistol, and that's enough to scare hunters and runners down.

If a marine faces a ravager or crusher 1 vs 1, he'll die even using a pulse rifle

Don't use big guns, if you really want to be more effective in combat, get a extended barrel and a RDS to put in your pistol

[Telegnats]

I'm honestly surprised you lasted the entire round as a doctor and not just killed yourself halfway through. But, on the topic of what just happened you shouldn't even bother picking up guns, and instead accepts the xenos as saviors from the mind numbing round you've probably just had.

[Surrealistik]

As a doctor, you get a pistol. You can, in an immediate danger situation grab a weapon from the ground and fire it to save your life and the life of others near you if everyone is on the ground. But you can't be running around with the weapon or front line fighting. Your goal is to get the enemy to leave. Not necessarily kill them. Your a doctor, with the primary job of healing, not a combat medic.

What about shotgun surgeons?

[Zartam]

Thanks for all your answers. However, the pulse rifle was the only weapon available in my closest area.

[freemysoul]

Ok, let me just put down my card eh?

Firstly it was me whom spoke to you. and I watched for a good 4 minutes fighting on the frontlines. When you pulled back past the medical area in the hanger, I spoke to you about it. You then argued that there was only 2 doctors that could "rescue" marines, when in fact any marine can drag an injured person out. You was PUTTING yourself in direct danger and went to fight the aliens.

[Zartam]

This thread is not for drama. If you really watched me during four minutes, you would have seen me in medbay for like 2 minutes, then going downstairs to reach the hangar medical area. There, I shot 2 aliens to repel them, stopped a marine from bleeding, got attacked again and shot again, so I moved back to the west of the infirmary. I dropped my weapon after your PM and got instantly killed by a ravager. Yes, any marine can drag someone injured, but you don't have time to drag them to medbay when there are only 14 people left on the Sulaco and they are all fighting in the hangar. Thus, my presence in the hangar. It was not a frontline, but a last stand. And the alien major victory 30 seconds after my death is the evidence that my presence was legitimate. The only controversial thing is not my presence, but the fact that I used a rifle.

Edit : As it is deviating from the original idea, it would be better to move the thread to suggestions (can rephrase the first message)

[Renomaki]

You have to remember that doctors are not really marines, but Average Joes that just happen to be doctors on a military ship. Picking up a gun and doing your best John Rambo impression is not something a normal person would do in such a position.

I admit that I had my times as a gunslinging doctor (and I'm not proud of it mind you), but for the most part, I treat it the same as I would a combat medic: Healing first, fightin later.

The main reason some doctors go out of their way to find a fight is pure boredom, since you don't get to kill shit as a doctor, so I can understand why some people would just drop what they are doing and join a scuffle when the chance comes.. Not that it is smart, but eh... Marines will be marines...

[RedsPro]

I feel if Docs life is in danger or the ships boarded they should always have a firearm close by. If theres one in the vents keep a handgun close but dont go lookin for a fight just be prepared

[nerocavalier]

As a Doctor, if you need a gun, you're probably going to die. No, really. You have no armor, no hugger protection unless you snag a helmet, and the fact that you need ome means that aliens either slaughtered dozens of marines or snuck on board to murder medbay.

At best, you'll be able to kill some aliens but you're probably going to die.

[Telegnats]

At best, you'll be able to kill some aliens but you're probably going to die.

This applies to the marines as well, but we still give them guns.

[nerocavalier]

This applies to the marines as well, but we still give them guns.

Except marines can't do surgery, nor do they have easy access to medical supplies. If you're fighting as a Doctor, you're either about to get mauled or you're wasting everyone's time by not healing.

[XenonDragneel]

Was CMO last night. Everybody was dead on the ground and I was performing surgery one one standard marine(was left sleeping till the end of the round) so I went out of the door, saw a praetorian. It was already shooting acid at me I nearly die so I quickly ran to this dead marine's M16 and head to my office... the Prae manage to get in I shoot 9 bullets at the Prae and he die...

THATS how you play whenver you are in a HEAVY situation. If you are being fucked but want to save you or your comrades life, look for a gun on the ground and fight back. Not run around and shoot.

[Telegnats]

Except marines can't do surgery, nor do they have easy access to medical supplies. If you're fighting as a Doctor, you're either about to get mauled or you're wasting everyone's time by not healing.

No one is questioning that.

Neither is anyone questioning that if you as a doctor have a gun, you are probably close to death anyway. But, that doesn't mean we shouldn't give them guns to try and save themselves if shit goes down.

[nerocavalier]

No one is questioning that.

Neither is anyone questioning that if you as a doctor have a gun, you are probably close to death anyway. But, that doesn't mean we shouldn't give them guns to try and save themselves if shit goes down.

My point is that they won't need one until things have gone horribly wrong and by that point they can loot it off of the floor usually. Giving them a gun beforehand won't amount to much but dead larva.

[Telegnats]

Considering the damage a lone drone can potentially cause for the Sulaco, I would wager that dead larva is bigger than you suggest.

[Miranda]

1. Why doctors in sulaco is civs when all doctors in real army is officers with same combat training as normal soldiers/officers?
2. Is doctors somehow excel in combat here, so we make such rule? One more guy with a gun(but withour armor mostly) is really such a big difference to aliens?
3. Isn't it easier to kill sneks with saw/scalpel and not wasting time to pull out gun and shoot?

[Swagile]

1. Why doctors in sulaco is civs when all doctors in real army is officers with same combat training as normal soldiers/officers?
2. Is doctors somehow excel in combat here, so we make such rule? One more guy with a gun(but withour armor mostly) is really such a big difference to aliens?
3. Isn't it easier to kill sneks with saw/scalpel and not wasting time to pull out gun and shoot?

Because guns are basically the only thing distinguishing doctors from combat medics.

Doctors can do surgery AND advanced medications + make chemicals.

Combat medics CANNOT do surgery nor make chems; they can only use chems / advanced medications. But they get armor + a gun they can shoot with.

Thats it; gameplay reasons.