Remove Hugger Removal Damage

[NoahKirchner]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary): Remove hugger removal damage so people stop being shaken up so they can hit it off themselves. (CJ confirmed it was a bug https://gyazo.com/e18aad9bc46403466c229e6888353454 )

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole): Stops bug abuse and also removes a one incredibly stupid and OP gameplay tactic that can literally remove your head and be a death sentence if you're over a certain dmg number.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc): Have removing huggers from people's faces by taking it off like clothing no longer do the insane amount of damage it does, and then make shaking people up while hugged impossible.

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it): Coding (can't be sooper difficult)

[Derpislav]

+1, make marine lives easier until the SOON(tm) hugger removal.

[Feweh]

Ya.... no.

[Miranda]

Well we will have a hugger combat nerf soon, no? If no then +1. Its annoing to see when aliums just run past us and drop huggers near SLs or Specs

[NoahKirchner]

Ya.... no.

The issue that's happening right now is that people are shaking others up with the hugger still on their face. The person being shaken up is stabbing the hugger (while awake and while it's still on their face), taking no damage and walking away.

[Feweh]

The issue that's happening right now is that people are shaking others up with the hugger still on their face. The person being shaken up is stabbing the hugger (while awake and while it's still on their face), taking no damage and walking away.

I forwarded this to the Dev team.... seems like theres a major overlooked bug here.

[NoahKirchner]

I forwarded this to the Dev team.... seems like theres a major overlooked bug here.

Well it is a bug, but if you look at what the bug abuse (incredibly widespread, like wow), looks to circumvent, it's not exactly that.. Abuse-ey. Huggers still immobilize you, it still takes about 20 seconds of pure shaking to get somebody to stand up, and they still need to hit the hugger. Huggers are still effective weapons in that they immobilize you and you still need a buddy to get them off (occupies two marines), but won't do a stupid amount of head damage that can force you back up to the Sulaco or decapitate you if you've already got a broken head.

[flying_loulou]

The issue that's happening right now is that people are shaking others up with the hugger still on their face. The person being shaken up is stabbing the hugger (while awake and while it's still on their face), taking no damage and walking away.

Is it unallowed ?

[NoahKirchner]

Is it unallowed ?

Apparently, I have seen it being done for about 3 weeks now (even a lot of staff members doing it), and only now has it been called bug abuse.

[flying_loulou]

so, there is no way to get it off "officialy" with no damages, or at least without blowing up the wounded's head ? Isn't it a bit unbalanced ?

[flying_loulou]

so, there is no way to get it off "officialy" with no damages, or at least without blowing up the wounded's head ? Isn't it a bit unbalanced ?

[Crab_Spider]

so, there is no way to get it off "officialy" with no damages, or at least without blowing up the wounded's head ? Isn't it a bit unbalanced ?

It's not unbalanced, huggers have a strong grip and very strong claws, they're resistant to heat and blunt force trauma to ensure they won't die while incubating hosts. You can TRY to save your pal while he's hugged or you can do the safer option and ... I don't know, let it take its course so he can have surgery. (sorry for the snark)

[NoahKirchner]

It's not unbalanced, huggers have a strong grip and very strong claws, they're resistant to heat and blunt force trauma to ensure they won't die while incubating hosts. You can TRY to save your pal while he's hugged or you can do the safer option and ... I don't know, let it take its course so he can have surgery. (sorry for the snark)

It makes sense lore wise, yes, but game design wise it's a bit unbalanced.

[Swagile]

A xenomorph queen can bump out literal hundreds of eggs in a average 2 hour round, while there is only at most 70-80 marines in high pop. That is enough to remove a marines helmet and get at least one hugger onto their face if, theoretically, you do manage to get every hugger without it dying. Without this "bug abuse" the xenos get a free larvae or immense damage done to every marine essentially for free as well as a free KO stun, where as any ability in the xenomorphs arsenal that is this powerful was either nerfed (see: ancient spitter stun locking 3 marines by its lonesome) or made into a T3 ability with large cooldowns (see: crushers stomp and charge, queens screech).

Again, I am saying that if its enforced that killing the hugger on your face with a point as heck knife is now "bug abuse" then there needs to be fixed to face huggers overrall, because even the lowliest Young Runner can run around with two of these in its hands at all times, and forces the combat more to unfair stunning than actual teamwork and planning.

From my understanding of the server when ive played, the entire CM gamemode forces both sides into teamwork whether they want to or not; xenomorphs have their castes, marines have the fact that facing a even mildly competent xeno alone is absolute suicide. Hugger combat introduces the lone wolf element of the game that shouldn't be there, as it encourages people to jump in, drop huggers, then jump out which now easily just disabled at least one marine with little to no effort that would require you to be at least a Elite T2 or Mature T3 to be able to do as easily as you can with huggers.

If hugger combat is removed, and/or this "bug abuse" is allowed to continue, you will see more xenos forced to push forward TOGETHER instead of simply relying on a broken mechanic to be able to take people out of the round with the click of 2-3 buttons.

[NoahKirchner]

A xenomorph queen can bump out literal hundreds of eggs in a average 2 hour round, while there is only at most 70-80 marines in high pop. That is enough to remove a marines helmet and get at least one hugger onto their face if, theoretically, you do manage to get every hugger without it dying. Without this "bug abuse" the xenos get a free larvae or immense damage done to every marine essentially for free as well as a free KO stun, where as any ability in the xenomorphs arsenal that is this powerful was either nerfed (see: ancient spitter stun locking 3 marines by its lonesome) or made into a T3 ability with large cooldowns (see: crushers stomp and charge, queens screech).

Again, I am saying that if its enforced that killing the hugger on your face with a point as heck knife is now "bug abuse" then there needs to be fixed to face huggers overrall, because even the lowliest Young Runner can run around with two of these in its hands at all times, and forces the combat more to unfair stunning than actual teamwork and planning.

From my understanding of the server when ive played, the entire CM gamemode forces both sides into teamwork whether they want to or not; xenomorphs have their castes, marines have the fact that facing a even mildly competent xeno alone is absolute suicide. Hugger combat introduces the lone wolf element of the game that shouldn't be there, as it encourages people to jump in, drop huggers, then jump out which now easily just disabled at least one marine with little to no effort that would require you to be at least a Elite T2 or Mature T3 to be able to do as easily as you can with huggers.

If hugger combat is removed, and/or this "bug abuse" is allowed to continue, you will see more xenos forced to push forward TOGETHER instead of simply relying on a broken mechanic to be able to take people out of the round with the click of 2-3 buttons.

This

[Snypehunter007]

Bug abuse is still bug abuse though, so.

[NoahKirchner]

Bug abuse is still bug abuse though, so.

Yes, it is still bug abuse, this is giving an alternative. The majority of the game's players who live to be hugged do this, so balance wouldn't be effected by changing it /at all/. If anything it's actually a nerf to add this but remove shaking people up because this would make them incapacitated for longer

[MrJJJ]

If we remove this "bug" and let this still in, i am going to see a lot of broken skulls and sometimes decaps from huggers

[Crab_Spider]

If we remove this "bug" and let this still in, i am going to see a lot of broken skulls and sometimes decaps from huggers

Then let them be infected. You get 8 minutes to live and you can still keep fighting.

[Szunti]

Marines have helmets, if they don't have helmet they still can bear tearing off one hugger. After that they have medics to treat the damage. Healing just a bit makes you able to get another hugger removed without broken bones. If they have no helmets and no medics, they still have a FOB to wait until those arrives.
I don't see how this is unbalanced.

[immaspaceninja]

The mechanic of huggers clawing people's faces when removed is indeed lore-friendly, because those fuckers are really determined to stay as close as possible to your sweet lips.

Gameplay wise, tho, its just frustating and not fun at all. Just think of it. Huggers can already remove you from the combat almost instantly which is already powerful. But the fact that they can make you spend next 20-40 minutes trying to get surgery is just not a good thing. At all.

Yeah, i know that we got splints and tramadol, but these things wont fix everything. You'll have to go back to sully sooner or later.

[NescauComToddy]

When hugger combat Is removed, there won't be always a hugger In your face or In your buddy face. You guys can relate this to future fixes like hugger combo and then, chill.

[TopHatPenguin]

Marines have helmets, if they don't have helmet they still can bear tearing off one hugger. After that they have medics to treat the damage. Healing just a bit makes you able to get another hugger removed without broken bones. If they have no helmets and no medics, they still have a FOB to wait until those arrives.
I don't see how this is unbalanced.

A marine can take one hugger but It depends on if they have taken damage to the head before (An example being an alien takes off a marines helmet with one hugger, keeps slashing the marines head, reinforcements for marine comes along, and the alien quickly applies the facehugger to finish it's job, that marine will now likely have broken bones or potentially a decap from a player removing the hugger.), which is highly likely as a lot of alien players like to aim at the head for a quick kill on a marine as well as if there are any medics alive or anyone is actually playing that job yet also if the medic player/players are injured as well and have to be taken to the Sulaco. On the helmet point, That is solely down to if you have marines willing to go up to the Sulaco and vend helmets then bring them down and if requisitions is on the ball if both of those can't be done then you'll have no helmets. On the Fob point it depends on who builds the Fob, if they're a good engineer the injured should be safe until a medic can tend to them or they can be sent to the Sulaco if the engineer is bad the Fob will crumble easily and most likely have holes in the defences in which hunters and runners will come in and kill any injured they find. There are a variety of factors that can screw up your day as a marine, these are just a few.

I mean if I'm honest when everyone was using 'the bug' it didn't make much of difference to the round, besides less trips immediately after being hugged, besides that rounds carried on as normal just with slightly less aggravated marine players. So in my mind at least this wouldn't affect balance in the slightest as we have already effectively had a trial run of this, with good results.

I personally like the damage which is dealt from a facehugger as it makes sense (Having a hugger just come off with ease just imo doesn't make sense.) albeit I think toxin or burn damage (Toxin because you could say that as the facehugger knows it's being taken off it secretes some nasty substance in an attempt to injure the host finding out that it won't have enough time for infection. Burn due to how you could say the marines are trying to take the hugger off at all costs, perhaps they use a knife to try and kill the creature out right resulting in acid being sprayed onto the hugged marine. Something like those could be interesting to explain it as albeit not the best they do serve as an example.)would be a better substitute to brute damage if we are going to keep the damage aspect of it.

[flying_loulou]

TopHatPenguin +1 (for everything)

[Snypehunter007]

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=7075#p122569

Locking.