Official Cloning Removal Update Discussion Thread

[wastedfate]

Discuss.

[NoahKirchner]

Dylan has assured me that there is some behind the scenes stuff that went on to prevent xenos cheesing dead bodies. I am fine with the update for now but still critical of it until I see how it effects round out of theory.

[MrJJJ]

Why on earth would you remove clonning, and then not remove combat hugging at the same time, despite numerous promises will always be "wtf", especially since the defib buff is kind of....beh

[mullvad]

Remove cloning, shitty circlejerk involving it and it does not fit within the current lore.

[NoahKirchner]

Remove cloning, shitty circlejerk involving it and it does not fit within the current lore.

Lore is the absolute last priority in anything. Lore is literally the /least/ important part of designing CM /AT ALL/. Gameplay comes first, emergent story next, possible abuse third, and LAST AND VERY LEAST comes the lore.

[dylanstrategie]

Dylan has assured me that there is some behind the scenes stuff that went on to prevent xenos cheesing dead bodies. I am fine with the update for now but still critical of it until I see how it effects round out of theory.

We will be observing the effects of that change as always, how it interacts with current gameplay. If either side starts abusing it, we'll curb down on it. Perhaps directly, perhaps via proxy

However, until we get at least a full day, maybe a few, to collect data (not just win/loss mind you, this is worthless in the grand scheme of things, but how death, revival, field medicine, ship medicine and MIA/WIA/KIA recovery all change as a result) we won't just rush ahead with changes. It's stupid, we can't decide over a single round if something works or not in gameplay and balance terms. We'll also have discussions to see where we are going from here. The answer to some issues is not always simple

[NoahKirchner]

We will be observing the effects of that change as always, how it interacts with current gameplay. If either side starts abusing it, we'll curb down on it. Perhaps directly, perhaps via proxy

However, until we get at least a full day, maybe a few, to collect data (not just win/loss mind you, this is worthless in the grand scheme of things, but how death, revival, field medicine, ship medicine and MIA/WIA/KIA recovery all change as a result) we won't just rush ahead with changes. It's stupid, we can't decide over a single round if something works or not in gameplay and balance terms. We'll also have discussions to see where we are going from here. The answer to some issues is not always simple

Ok, it's good to see then. Though about the husk threshold thing that would have been great to know because that was like 1/4th of my concern.

[mullvad]

We will be observing the effects of that change as always, how it interacts with current gameplay. If either side starts abusing it, we'll curb down on it. Perhaps directly, perhaps via proxy

However, until we get at least a full day, maybe a few, to collect data (not just win/loss mind you, this is worthless in the grand scheme of things, but how death, revival, field medicine, ship medicine and MIA/WIA/KIA recovery all change as a result) we won't just rush ahead with changes. It's stupid, we can't decide over a single round if something works or not in gameplay and balance terms. We'll also have discussions to see where we are going from here. The answer to some issues is not always simple

Just a suggestion here, if you don't want a specific role to do something at least make it very very very clear that it's questionable, hidden and/or vague rules are bad for new players as it makes it hard for them to understand as to why something they do is bad.

[dylanstrategie]

Just a suggestion here, if you don't want a specific role to do something at least make it very very very clear that it's questionable, hidden and/or vague rules are bad for new players as it makes it hard for them to understand as to why something they do is bad.

We want to switch as much as possible away from gameplay by rule enforcement, towards gameplay by design

People should be avoiding bad things because they are impractical, useless, or perhaps even impossible if we really can't balance it. Not because there's a rule somewhere that says "don't do it" and an admin will ban them if they do

[Simo94]

im fine with it, I cant recall the last time I was cloned anyway


just push that hugger combat update is all

[Halinder]

I'd like it if it was accompanied by a change that increases the minimum brute damage a limb needs before it can be dismembered.

[wastedfate]

im fine with it, I cant recall the last time I was cloned anyway.

Essentially this.

But the defibrillation mechanic is a bit more advanced than the cloners were, and I'm not sure most of our medics are up to the task of using them properly. So I'm thinking we definitely need the wiki to be updated, since it doesn't show anything about the defibs as far as I can see, and the guide to combat medic as is, is very lacking. The guide to medicine links directly to Bay, where the procedure for decapitation is to remove the brain and pass it off to robotics, which... we don't have robotics.

[Durper]

Is Hugger Combat cancer gonna be removed after this? or was that a meme?

[nerocavalier]

From what I've heard, defib got MASSIVELY buffed as in it's insanely easier to use than before due to the increased time limit and the damage threshold.

As for medics, I actually want to spend the next couple of days observing to see how the change affects them and how people treat them. I expect to see a lot more dead medics, personally, since who wouldn't remove the only thing capable of bringing marines back.

I find it hilarious that this change already made me change my loadout to get stasis bags and peridex since I can't afford to take any chances anymore and I haven't even played yet.

[outordinary]

Official salty about cloning being removed thread.

[Nubs]

I think it needed to go, but even as a heavy xeno player i can see the need for combat hugging to go the same way shortly.

A reinforcement shuttle that allows a certain number of dead marines to come back into the round every hour or so would be a good replacement.

[Houlihan]

I think I understand why the change was made; which is to say encouraging people to play as xenos and shortening rounds.
Would be alright with it if hugger decap meta wasn't so awfully prevalent. As it stands it greatly hinders assault as a lot of marines aren't really willing to be a handful of sand (or salt) thrown between the xeno gears to be finely grinded into very dead powder that most probably won't be defib'd in time.

I guess it made the game more balanced, since marines have barely any hope to win now even on LV.

[Feweh]

A reinforcement shuttle that allows a certain number of dead marines to come back into the round every hour or so would be a good replacement.

No one would play xeno if we did that

[MrJJJ]

From what I've heard, defib got MASSIVELY buffed as in it's insanely easier to use than before due to the increased time limit and the damage threshold.

By massively buffed you mean:
5 minutes, after that can't be revived
Can be revived as long as: You aren't husked, decapped, suicided, extreme damage and chestbursted, it also does heart damage if you get revived (might be untrue, since apop was confused when he was told this and Dylan was the one to said this)

Is this the massive buff you are talking about?

[Nubs]

No one would play xeno if we did that

hm, but it would only work with dead people who were already marines, not xenos. and only some of them. Besides, perma marines and the like would probs disconnect rather than be forced to play xeno.

[nerocavalier]

By massively buffed you mean:
5 minutes, after that can't be revived
Can be revived as long as: You aren't husked, decapped, suicided, extreme damage and chestbursted, it also does heart damage if you get revived (might be untrue, since apop was confused when he was told this and Dylan was the one to said this)

Is this the massive buff you are talking about?

Yes, it is.

Before this, you only had a minute + plus a few seconds of grace period before you couldn't defib anymore. This is of course not mentioning the incredibly higher damage threshod. I don't know why you're bringing up husk and suicide since you could defib them before cloning removal. Heck, ask Ticker. I brought him back to life after a boiler turned him to a gray husk.

You couldn't defib chestbursters before this so it's pointless to bring it up. The heart damage is irrelevant, give them peridaxon or dexalin and inaprovaline and send them up to be treated.

[Feweh]

Youll see a lot more people rescued on the field and brought back to life now

Where as in the past Joe Noob was left to die while Xurs body was rescued 30 minutes after he was dead.

[Nubs]

Youll see a lot more people rescued on the field and brought back to life now

Where as in the past Joe Noob was left to die while Xurs body was rescued 30 minutes after he was dead.

This is another good point.

[Joe4444]

Youll see a lot more people rescued on the field and brought back to life now

Where as in the past Joe Noob was left to die while Xurs body was rescued 30 minutes after he was dead.

how will this happen? people will have no way to know if someone's timer is up, so they'll just be left to die anyway.

[TopHatPenguin]

Just played a round with no cloning and it went pretty well saw a lot of marines die but then get defibbed myself included, on the frontlines and in the Fob. Personally I quite like the change albeit hugger decapping is still an issue.