Feweh Report

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SUPERMAN112
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Feweh Report

Post by SUPERMAN112 » 23 Jan 2017, 21:25

Your Byond Key: SUPERMAN112

Your Character Name: Chad Stephenson

Their Byond key: Feweh

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central Us Time for best results): Jan 23, 2017, 17:35

Which Admin Protocols (viewtopic.php?f=57&t=5647) were broken: In my view one and three

Description of the incident: I have only played marine on Whiskey Outpost oh I dunno... once? I saw a flanking position and got some metal to secure it, wanna say 3-4 stacks, I made some walls, saw two sentry crates lying around so I grabbed them and put up too sentries to block a xeno flank, threw down some other false walls, got boinked and told to knock it off etc, explained I was just covering a flank, was told ok just dont be selfish. Got another boink and got warned that I would be bombed if I was the last marine alive in here, said ok and asked an irrelevant question. I had mostly finished it and was heading out to see if I could get some other marines to help me secure the flanking position, saw weeds and heard a sentinel or spitter, I didnt know the xenos were so close to the outpost, ran back and moved a turret closer to the entrance to keep me covered while I checked the premises, got boinked, told I was warned twice and banned.
now first of all being selfish, while it is shit isnt really against the rules per say, its more an IC issue, Im not trying to be a rule shitler I get you cant make the rules 10 pages long and get implied rules but still, the general vibe of the rules that I get is meta and other things like that fall under the category of bannable offenses, but distasteful IC stuff like gross marine bravado, a snake lesion and such is more an IC issue.
I mean here is an example of Feweh himself denying a report because someone was way more of a shit/abuser than I was, stating its an IC issue http://cm-ss13.com/viewtopic.p ... ue#p116004
Now I wasn't intending to be selfish or cause shit, I set up defenses and some turrets, and when boinked I explained my side and he seemed chill with it. Second time I got boinked he said he would blow me up if I was the last one, I was fine with that. Then he bans me, claiming i was warned twice. He said dont be selfish, and I will blow you up, if he had said move the turrets somewhere more helpful, would have done it, if he had said ok, bit too heavy on the defenses dont be selfish, stop building, would have done it, or if he just told me to get out there and fight.
I dont know exactly how much metal marines have on whiskey, but when I play aliens I see a crap ton a metal walls around the rasputin lading, I mean under this approach anyone who does that or builds superfluous defenses can be banned, so why is it okay when they do it on LV-624? the rasputin is a flanking position, why is it okay to secure that with metal sheets but not in my case? why did I get a ban? Were my defenses maybe a bit excessive? sure. But is walling off the entire rasputin a bit much? yeah a little. So if any marine sets up crapy wasteful defenses they can be 7 day banned for it? I mean marine FF kills way more than this "wasteful" flank did, are they all going to get 7 day bans?

look, I dont want to start crap with the manager of the server, but this ban wasn't fair, even you have to admit that. I mean I know the staff here likes to say there is no special treatment but I have seen a lot of regulars put up much worse defenses and its just gets laughed over in D chat, this wasn't fair. If you had said after my initial reply, no it is a waste, knock it off, that would have been a warning and I would have stopped, if I didn't then yes this ban would be somewhat more legitimate as I ignored a staff members orders. How did it go from bomb me to ban? a threat of being bombed isnt a ban warning. That coupled with the fact this is more an IC issue and you have denied player reports for no less than what I did... why?
Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
Feweh interactions:
► Show Spoiler

How you would punish the accused: I know the server manager isn't really going to be punished, and I don't really think he deserves anything major either, being a admin on a free to play game where everyone is trying to start shit and get around the rules is tiring and he's doing what he does for free providing a service to everyone on the server, I get it. It's hard to tell whether a player is a masquerading griefer or someone who just messed up, but you still need to be fair, give appropriate ban times, and not jump between two opinions about selfishness with key materials like attachments and metal being an IC issue and an OOC issue.

I dont really care about the ban time, (why im not appealing it), but I mean this ban has pretty much brought my chances of getting any kind of app I was planning on down to zero since its a recent ban and I will be labeled as a griefer, that and this will probably tick off the one guy who approves like half of them, that being said I tried to remain mostly non-salted when writing this but forgive me if anything slipped through.
Last edited by SUPERMAN112 on 24 Jan 2017, 00:36, edited 5 times in total.
ImageROUNDS WON AS QUEEN:39 ROUNDS LOST AS QUEEN:3
SOLO PREDATOR BATTLES WON AS QUEEN:8
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Re: Feweh Report

Post by Feweh » 23 Jan 2017, 21:30

You were warned twice by me, ignored said warnings and ended up doing exactly what I told you not to do.

The first time I spoke to you, while not a direct "stop doing this", it was quite clear that you were to stop as I clearly stated to stop being selfish.
The reason I banned you was simple, when I spoke to you the second time we had this conversation;
Manager PM from Feweh: Im just warning you now, if youre the last one left sitting there with two sentries, youre gonna be bombed.

SSGT Robert 'Caddy' Timmins [Sulaco (SL)] asks, "WHY AM I SCAVENGING FOR SHOTGUN SHELLS!?"
LCDR Pedro 'Stuck' Heering [Sulaco (XO)] shouts, "Hold south, push then back!"
SSGT Balto''Crunk''Dreg [Sulaco (SL)] stammers, "B-Bravo w-w-west l-line has fallen"

PM to Feweh: if I leave it there to defend on its own will it be b-bombed?

PFC Axel Duck [Sulaco (Mar)] stutters, "P-P-Protect m-medbay"
OOC: Dylanstrategie: IF MARINES ARE NOT DEFENDING MG NESTS AND XENOS OVERTAKE THEM, I WILL DELETE THEM. MG NESTS ARE BROKEN AND XENOS CAN'T DESTROY THEM

Manager PM from Feweh: nope


You said you'd leave the sentries there and go, which I took as you acknowledging that you'd stop building you cave defense and move on. You did leave when I was watching you, so I stopped observing you till I again found you back at the same spot later.

Even in your own logs, it's VERY apparant where the xenos are... making you well aware that your "defenses" weren't defending anything at all as they were directly assaulting the outpost. So the story that you 'had no idea where the xenos were, is false".

The reason you ultimately banned, was because of your note history which is very extensive with similar behavior. Had this been a first offense, it probably would of been a simple warning.
To add to this, there is no IC method of dealing with this issue as we're playing WO. This falls under RULE 1, of not being a dick and selfishly screwing over your teammates so you can make your own personal cave base.

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Re: Feweh Report

Post by Rain7x » 23 Jan 2017, 21:33

I'm not speaking for Feweh or anything, but when you are posting logs, try to keep it to relevant stuff, that log is a pain to look through.
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Re: Feweh Report

Post by SUPERMAN112 » 23 Jan 2017, 21:42

Rain7x wrote:I'm not speaking for Feweh or anything, but when you are posting logs, try to keep it to relevant stuff, that log is a pain to look through.
sorry bout that, cleaned it up and highlighted the relevant stuff
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Re: Feweh Report

Post by apophis775 » 24 Jan 2017, 01:07

3-4 stacks of metal? That's double what a single engineer starts with.
I believe the issue was partly that it wasn't "a non-engineer" building all this shit to do one tiny thing and taking critical supplies from marines.
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Re: Feweh Report

Post by SUPERMAN112 » 24 Jan 2017, 01:48

apophis775 wrote:3-4 stacks of metal? That's double what a single engineer starts with.
I believe the issue was partly that it wasn't "a non-engineer" building all this shit to do one tiny thing and taking critical supplies from marines.
With all due respect round just before the rasputin was walled off with a SADAR placed there, dont really see how that is different, rasputin isnt attacked as often as major entrances to the nexus, I'm not 100% familiar with the WO map but it seemed like a rather large flank, that and WO has like a bazillion metal barricades, a lot of pre-spawned turrets, so 3-4 metal stacks aren't as major/critical in my mind as they would be on LV, just my opinion though.

Also didn't know there were marine divisions on WO, everyone looked like a standard in the engineering room and the doors to engineering were open/stayed open for me a and there were like 10+ marines in there so I thought there couldn't be that that many engineers and that the game mode for marines was more hunter games-ish in terms of a lack of CM conventional ID access and marine divisions (not to the same extent of hunger games obviously), that and there isnt too much on the wiki I could find.

But I mean if that is true then building walls/turrets is technically meta info and such, and that's why I wont appeal the ban, more of what this is about to summarize that text-block I posted it the fact that Feweh said he warned me twice, when he seemed hesitantly okay with it, telling me to not be selfish, then said he would bomb be, and somehow this morphed into ban warnings for rule breakage even though it was more of an IC issue and I received a ban without real proper warning.
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SOLO PREDATOR BATTLES WON AS QUEEN:8
SOLO PREDATOR BATTLES LOST AS QUEEN: 0

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Re: Feweh Report

Post by slc97 » 24 Jan 2017, 20:41

You were told not to do something, and you did it anyway. Are you really all that surprised you got in trouble for it?

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Re: Feweh Report

Post by SUPERMAN112 » 25 Jan 2017, 13:22

Feweh wrote:You were warned twice by me, ignored said warnings and ended up doing exactly what I told you not to do.

The first time I spoke to you, while not a direct "stop doing this", it was quite clear that you were to stop as I clearly stated to stop being selfish.
The reason I banned you was simple, when I spoke to you the second time we had this conversation;
Manager PM from Feweh: Im just warning you now, if youre the last one left sitting there with two sentries, youre gonna be bombed.

SSGT Robert 'Caddy' Timmins [Sulaco (SL)] asks, "WHY AM I SCAVENGING FOR SHOTGUN SHELLS!?"
LCDR Pedro 'Stuck' Heering [Sulaco (XO)] shouts, "Hold south, push then back!"
SSGT Balto''Crunk''Dreg [Sulaco (SL)] stammers, "B-Bravo w-w-west l-line has fallen"

PM to Feweh: if I leave it there to defend on its own will it be b-bombed?

PFC Axel Duck [Sulaco (Mar)] stutters, "P-P-Protect m-medbay"
OOC: Dylanstrategie: IF MARINES ARE NOT DEFENDING MG NESTS AND XENOS OVERTAKE THEM, I WILL DELETE THEM. MG NESTS ARE BROKEN AND XENOS CAN'T DESTROY THEM

Manager PM from Feweh: nope


You said you'd leave the sentries there and go, which I took as you acknowledging that you'd stop building you cave defense and move on. You did leave when I was watching you, so I stopped observing you till I again found you back at the same spot later.

Even in your own logs, it's VERY apparant where the xenos are... making you well aware that your "defenses" weren't defending anything at all as they were directly assaulting the outpost. So the story that you 'had no idea where the xenos were, is false".

The reason you ultimately banned, was because of your note history which is very extensive with similar behavior. Had this been a first offense, it probably would of been a simple warning.
To add to this, there is no IC method of dealing with this issue as we're playing WO. This falls under RULE 1, of not being a dick and selfishly screwing over your teammates so you can make your own personal cave base.
You originally said "just don't be selfish man", which I interpreted as I was okay since I was just setting up a two sentries to defend the flank, not being selfish. I think the disconnect was in the second interaction, as we both interpreted that in different ways. I took that conversation as if I left those there alone then they wouldn't be blown up, not that I would do it right at that moment. My plan after that interaction was to wait until I saw some acid on the metal, then I would turn on the turrets and leave them there (as they were off to avoid wasting power), heading to the main outpost to help defend there.

Now from what I know of the whiskey map there are rows of metal barricades with turrets and sentries, so the marines can at least hold this pretty well, but from what I saw this flanking spot went straight down and had no real metal barricades around it, which is why I fortified it so heavily, figuring if this flank can be defended then the main force of marines can hold the barricades.

Why you consider it a waste of materials and a base is what I really don't understand, it was defending a flank, and it was literally just some walls around some sentries, not sure why this qualifies as a base. Based on the logs I was reading I knew that the marines were being pushed back to the Maine hub of WO, knew they were being attacked, which is why I started to head out, but when I moved out what I found was that they were seemingly overtaken. That is why I panicked and went to move the other sentry, 'my plan was to leave the sentries there, as I alluded to, and go help the main force but it would have been stupid to run out toward the base when I can hear aliens without moving a sentry to cover me while I go out.

And how is it being a dick and screwing over my team? One I was covering a flank, two there are a crap ton of metal barricades on WO, and all the gaps had been covered with false walls on the main base, how was I majorly screwing over my team? In that link I posted in the original post that MP was being a dick but it was still ruled by you an IC incident.

You also said I have a note history of similar actions but I only have any major notes from like 2 years ago, and since you have taken back permabans after shorter periods you do believe (or so I guess) that players can change in a shorter period of time.

Why aren't those last xenos at round end banned instead? Under this approach it is being a dick stalling the round, and instead of blowing them up like you said you just ban them.

If you had explicitly said stop building after my reply in the first interaction or said that in the second interaction then I would have stopped and if I didn't then you would have grounds to ban me as I was wanted and blatantly ignored what you said. But you gave me an IC punishment that I could receive if I stayed there, and instead last minute it was switched to a ban, 7 day ban at that.
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Re: Feweh Report

Post by Feweh » 25 Jan 2017, 13:38

Ignorance of the situation, round and your actions is a terrible excuse.

You knew that the outpost was under direct assault, yet you remained there creating more walls to cover yourself in.

You knew it was a team-based gamemode, yet at round start you went into the caves instantly and started building walls and defenses. For no reason, as the cave is one of the last areas.

You knew and were told what you were doing was selfish. Yet you continued to do so and didnt stop.


Everything you did exhibited selfish behavior of walling yourself in and taking mass supplies from your team-mates for your own personal base. Had you built that area up and left i'd have no problem with it.

You know what you were doing, staff knew what you were doing and even the playerbase knew what you were doing. Claiming ignorance after your actions showed differently is not acceptable, especially when I told you twice this behavior wasnt acceptable.

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Re: Feweh Report

Post by slc97 » 25 Jan 2017, 13:58

Here are the player's notes.

End of Round Grief by UnknownMurder (GameAdmin) on Tue, August 4th of 2015

Stacking Resin Walls... Bug Abuse. Warned by UnknownMurder (GameAdmin) on Thu, August 13th of 2015

Warned about dragging a banana peel behind him, causing a marine to slip and get caught. by FatalEYES (Moderator) on Sun, September 6th of 2015

Killed two survivors,one by "accident" and the other "since it doesnt say anywhere in the rules that a survivor cant kill another survivor" and "said survivor was getting suspicious of the player killing the first one" by Coroneljones (GameAdmin) on Mon, October 12th of 2015

Decided that breaching the Sulaco intentionally as queen was not an act of powergaming. by rovernic (GameAdmin) on Wed, October 14th of 2015

Ghosted from ERT by apophis775 (Host) on Sun, November 1st of 2015

As RO, eluded MP's by escaping planetside. Job-banned. by WestHybrid (TrialAdmin) on Thu, November 19th of 2015

Banned from Requisitions Officer - Escaped planetside while eluding MP's. by Adminbot (Friendly Robot) on Thu, November 19th of 2015 Remove

Make a breach during the "Breaching not allowed" time. -Warned by Adjective (TrialAdmin) on Sun, December 6th of 2015

Was harming infected host... spent 10 minutes trying to justify harming host to me afterwards. Gave him a warning by Feweh (Moderator) on Tue, December 15th of 2015

Decapped a marine in the FOB, started dragging her head all the way back to the hive. Argued towards the validity of that with such arguments as "marines drag around xeno dead bodies all the time as trophies why can't xenos do it" and "marines have been slashing weeds all round, is that not a bit meta?" and " She liked the last head she saw so i figured bring her more, the rules says dont destroy dead bodies never says you can't move them around" by Ordukai (GameAdmin) on Tue, December 22nd of 2015

3 hour ban for stealing doner items when told not to. by Lostmixup (GameAdmin) on Sun, December 27th of 2015

Banned from Survivor - As a survivor, met another survivor and started insisting that they go to secure storage to set up a fort there. The other survivor refused which lead to a chase into the jungle. This chase ended with the victim typing and Superman shooting him twice with a rifle. His explanation for this was that he was trying to ctrl+click and failed. He then pulled around the injured survivor which led to a runner capturing the two of them. He fought the aliens (The victim had succumbed at this point), died, and then logged. by Adminbot (Friendly Robot) on Thu, February 11th of 2016 Remove

Found melting weapon vendors. Warned. Suggest a ban on next offense of any kind. by Jackserious (TrialModerator) on Sun, February 14th of 2016

Caused multiple breaches on the sulaco, including one in the alpha specialist room. Told that "one line of resin doors is not an airlock". by Hycinth (Moderator) on Sun, February 14th of 2016

Warned not to multi stack resin walls/doors. Player has a severe history of power-gaming and doing this kind of stuff... After reading his notes he has been warned about this previously. 24hour ban given due to warnings. by Feweh (Moderator) on Tue, February 16th of 2016

Was making a swastika out of eggs as an alien queen. Stopped when told to. by ForwardslashN (Developer) on Sun, October 2nd of 2016

Suspected of metarushing the shuttle as a xeno Larva, warned. by Snypehunter007 (Moderator) on Wed, January 4th of 2017

Dragged a decapped marine to the shuttle and let it get decapped, kept stealing corpses as well to hide them by Apophis775 (Host) on Sat, January 7th of 2017

Banned by apophis775|Duration: 4320 minutes|Reason: Powergaming/Griefing - Moved many marine bodies away to "Hide' them from the FOB, also left a body on the pad to get gibbed. by Apophis775 (Host) on Sat, January 7th of 2017

Melted OR tables on the sulaco and hid the CO's body in the vent hub, warned because the vent hubs are new and rulings were not fully made on them, and due to a miscommunication with another staff member about melting OR tables. by Dapper Stache (TrialModerator) on Sat, January 14th of 2017

Banned by feweh|Duration: 4310 minutes|Reason: During WO decided to build his own personal base in the caves using two sentires and resources. Despite two warnings, he continued to do so till the very end. Very selfish behavior and no excuse when you were warned prior to doing so. by Feweh (Manager) on Mon, January 23rd of 2017

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Re: Feweh Report

Post by apophis775 » 25 Jan 2017, 16:23

This is a difficult position.

Because on one hand, the RO shouldn't be hogging supplies and building on WO. His job is to distribute supplies, so it would be powergaming.

On the other hand, we don't have full set "rules" for WO outside the standard rules.


Due to note history though, I'm going to say this was a valid issue of powergaming that you committed and that this complaint doesn't really have a baseline to hold on as a result. He warned you to not be greedy, then told you to stop.

If anyone has any final comments, feel free to make them, I'll lock this report as RESOLVED tomorrow.
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Re: Feweh Report

Post by SUPERMAN112 » 25 Jan 2017, 20:56

apophis775 wrote:This is a difficult position.

Because on one hand, the RO shouldn't be hogging supplies and building on WO. His job is to distribute supplies, so it would be powergaming.

On the other hand, we don't have full set "rules" for WO outside the standard rules.


Due to note history though, I'm going to say this was a valid issue of powergaming that you committed and that this complaint doesn't really have a baseline to hold on as a result. He warned you to not be greedy, then told you to stop.

If anyone has any final comments, feel free to make them, I'll lock this report as RESOLVED tomorrow.
I'm not too sure if it was power-gaming, I got 3-4 stacks of metal and some sentries and build up defenses for a flank, how defending a flank is being a dick/power-gaming I really don't get, but that isn't my main issue here. My main issue is that I didn't receive proper warning. First time he seemed alright with it after I explained, second time said he would blow me up, which isn't a ban warning. So I have two things in my head during the round, 1.) dont be selfish 2.) if you stay in the defense area you'll be bombed. So I get another admin PM figure I gotta get out/going to get bombed, then bang BAN. So was never really warned that I was in the "wrong" that and in the protocol it states "a. Determine the bare minimum punishment. There's no reason to jump straight to a ban, especially if the incident didn't cause a major disruption to the game. Try to use warnings, and if you do need to ban don't be excessive. Most bans should not be above 12 hours. " What disruption did this cause to a round with literally like 100 metal barricades and a load of sentries that is designed to get rushed and overtaken eventually? Even with my notes factored in, did this really deserve a 7 day ban AND pending perma? For building defenses that you deemed overkill? So if I ever play marine engineer in the future do I need to run every design through a-help before I make it? and you keep calling it a base, it was literally less than 10 tiles away from the main nexus area, it was practically an extension of it
ImageROUNDS WON AS QUEEN:39 ROUNDS LOST AS QUEEN:3
SOLO PREDATOR BATTLES WON AS QUEEN:8
SOLO PREDATOR BATTLES LOST AS QUEEN: 0

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Re: Feweh Report

Post by Feweh » 25 Jan 2017, 21:53

SUPERMAN112 wrote:and in the protocol it states "a. Determine the bare minimum punishment. There's no reason to jump straight to a ban, especially if the incident didn't cause a major disruption to the game. Try to use warnings, and if you do need to ban don't be excessive. Most bans should not be above 12 hours. " What disruption did this cause to a round with literally like 100 metal barricades and a load of sentries that is designed to get rushed and overtaken eventually? Even with my notes factored in, did this really deserve a 7 day ban AND pending perma?

Given your notes and history for power-gaming/selfish behavior you we're banned instead of warned.

Generally we (most) follow a ban cycle of warning - 3hour ban - 24hour ban - 3day ban - 7day ban - Perma ban.

Considering the last ban you received was about 2 weeks ago and for 3days.... I gave you 7.

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Re: Feweh Report

Post by SUPERMAN112 » 25 Jan 2017, 23:02

Feweh wrote:Given your notes and history for power-gaming/selfish behavior you we're banned instead of warned.

Generally we (most) follow a ban cycle of warning - 3hour ban - 24hour ban - 3day ban - 7day ban - Perma ban.

Considering the last ban you received was about 2 weeks ago and for 3days.... I gave you 7.
Sure but the 3 hours, and 24 hour bans were skipped over. Can you tell me what rule or implied rules I violated?
ImageROUNDS WON AS QUEEN:39 ROUNDS LOST AS QUEEN:3
SOLO PREDATOR BATTLES WON AS QUEEN:8
SOLO PREDATOR BATTLES LOST AS QUEEN: 0

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Re: Feweh Report

Post by Feweh » 26 Jan 2017, 15:26

SUPERMAN112 wrote:Can you tell me what rule or implied rules I violated?
1. Powergaming (or power gaming) is a style of interacting with games or game-like systems, particularly video games, boardgames, and role-playing games, with the aim of maximising progress towards a specific goal, to the exclusion of other considerations such as storytelling, atmosphere and camaraderie.

2. Don't be a dick. - "Dickish" and "harassment" type of behavior is not allowed.

Both of these rules cover to an extant your actions in-game.

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Re: Feweh Report

Post by SUPERMAN112 » 26 Jan 2017, 19:39

Feweh wrote:1. Powergaming (or power gaming) is a style of interacting with games or game-like systems, particularly video games, boardgames, and role-playing games, with the aim of maximising progress towards a specific goal, to the exclusion of other considerations such as storytelling, atmosphere and camaraderie.

2. Don't be a dick. - "Dickish" and "harassment" type of behavior is not allowed.

Both of these rules cover to an extant your actions in-game.
Alright well how is it power-gaming if on WO you are alerted to the oncoming assault? its not like on LV where you don't know what is coming, on WO you know full well you are getting charged by HEAVY numbers, I wasn't playing in a fashion that was abusive or using pre-existing knowledge, I was simply building defenses. that and WO isnt really a RP mode either, just like Hunter Games, its designed with short breathing intervals between waves leaving little time for any kind of RP and atmosphere, first thing EVERYONE did was rush to weapons, setting up turrets, and getting prepared.

Being a dick, I did not harass anyone or cause emotional trauma, I made somewhat excessive defenses on a mode that is all about defending, also when staff are employing IC racism and nothing is done, hard to fault me for being a dick, while that is seen as fine.
viewtopic.php?f=71&t=10240&p=108250&hil ... sm#p108250
Not that I disagree with the outcome of that, but certain words are more offensive and emotionally damaging/dickish than me putting up a few excess walls

I cannot see such a major infraction as to warrant this 7 day ban and pending perma, im sorry but that is just my opinion
ImageROUNDS WON AS QUEEN:39 ROUNDS LOST AS QUEEN:3
SOLO PREDATOR BATTLES WON AS QUEEN:8
SOLO PREDATOR BATTLES LOST AS QUEEN: 0

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