Discord Ban appeal

[Durper]

Your Byond ID:

Centive

(Evitnec on Discord)

Character Name:

Bob Sunday

Type Of Ban (Job-ban, Timed Ban, Permaban):

Discord Ban

Admin who banned you (if known):

slc97 -(via Discord) according to him in the thread.

Total Ban Duration:

Perma

Remaining Duration:

Perma

What other servers do you play on?

CM mostly.

Are you now or have you been banned on any of them?

I've been ban from CM for 3 hours, then a second time for a day, then extended for 3 days with Job bans.(I already appealed for them)

Reason for ban (If you have a Permaban, it should be the EXACT MESSAGE YOU GET WHEN YOU LOGIN with the Error code that looks like this: X##XXX##. If you do not provide this EXACTLY you can't be unbanned):

I was caught metacomming like a scrub according to the tg admins.

Link to previous appeals for the same ban (if applicable):

n/a

Your appeal, including evidence (screenshots, etc):

What happened:

At February 4 at around 11 pm (eastern time), I was on discord for a while, one of the people on there was warhawk (first time talking to him) (not his actual Discord name) he was playing on Basil while I was playing CM. When my character died on CM I thought it might be fun to join warhawk on the basil server, I played a couple rounds as a CT the first time and janitor the second time, I was pretty confused so I kept asking warhawk what everything is while trying to do my assign job.

The third time I played I was CT again, warhawk told me he was a bar traitor. After gathering the crates in the supply shuttle I went and visited the bar and found my department co-workers also there, we talked for a while (in chat IC) and ordered some drinks, after that I went back to my department and continued putting crates in the supply shuttle until my Co-worker told me if I knew about the "Black market" above cargo, I said "no" so he wanted me to fallow him so I did, when we were above cargo in the maintenance area I saw a lot of suspicious looking items, my co-worker told me to get over the table with him to reach the inside of the black market place, once I did my coworker suddenly shot me with a crossbow and killed me and stuffed me in a crate.

I have a slight habit of bluttering out the situation because of the surprise so when I did, warhawk offered to find my body and bring it to the cloning room(genetics), I said no because it wouldn't make sense for him to know where I am and how I died, after that an admin by the name of Kevinz0000 contacted me about that via admin PM in game and told me it wasn't allowed and to not do it again, he gave me a warning instead of a perma ban, I said "Alright, I understand", he was also in the discord by the by. I did not leave the round when I died I wanted to observe it because it was interesting so I stuck around until round end then logged out of Basil.

After a short while I got disconnected from the Discord server, banned.

Appeal:

I apologize for disrupting that round, I didn't think what I said was game breaking at the time, I asked warhawk for some info on the mechanics of normal SS13, and the station layout(I got lost a lot) because I mostly play on CM and the difference was a little confusing for me. I'm sorry for blurtting out IC info, I was a bit lost on what was happening in the round. Again I apologize.

[apophis775]

We have a very strict stand on Metacomms in the discord.

I can check with /tg/ to see what they said, as well as the people who reported you were metacomming, but your story is different than what was reported to me.

[Harakoni warhawk]

I'm posting here as a witness as I was the other 'Meta Commer'.

Like Durper said, most of the time I was giving his advice about Basil, as one of the maps possible in the rotation is Box station which has a wildly different layout from Meta station.

I was Traitor bartender that round, Durper came to the bar looking for a gift for the QM, so I gave him a glass of Absinthe.

He went quiet for a while then the next thing I hear was a guy had lured him into Cargo Maint to show him a Black Market then killed him.
He said the guy killed him then hid his body and managed to space himself.

I figured that since the Antagonist was abusing his Rule 1 protection to grief Durper, I knew I couldn't Ahelp it as they would just tell me to shut up and ban me for Meta comms.

I head to Cargo and the next thing I know Kevinz PM'd me about the Meta Comming and said he would give me a warning and wouldn't ban me.
I said ok and headed to Medbay to find my execution target, a doctor.

Next thing I know a doctor comes up to me with Durper's character and said he was told to find me.
I figured Kevinz had given that Doctor cargo Maint access, led him to the body and told him to find me but Kevinz denied it.

A Admin warns us over meta comming just to do the same thing minutes later, seems hypocritical, no?
A thing to note was that the Admin made Durper's ghost visible to me only and have it show the words 'Banned for Meta Comming like a noob' or something like that.

Round ends and not long after that I get banned from the Discord with no warning.

The funny thing is that the only reason I did it was that a Staff member on the Discord chat , when asked about meta comming had said 'Who cares, we do that all the time'.
I figured since if a Staff member said that about Meta Comming in CM proper, they wouldn't care about Meta comming on another server, seems I was wrong.

That's my evidence in regards to Durper's defense, if the story reported to you is different, then they lied because Durper's account is pretty close to what happened on our end.

Most of the time I was giving him advice about Basil and I did joke about being 'Meta Miners' because of the alliteration.

[Durper]

We have a very strict stand on Metacomms in the discord.

I can check with /tg/ to see what they said, as well as the people who reported you were metacomming, but your story is different than what was reported to me.

Please do, and my story is from what I remembered that happened to me, it doesn't include warhawks side of the story or the admins perspective, so some information would be lacking.

[slc97]

I applied the ban to both yourself and Warhawk. I have PMed the two who reported it to me in order for them to say what occurred here.

Also, we tolerate certain levels of metacomms on our server in our discord. General stuff like "I died" and whatnot. Not stuff like "I died in hydro, there are two drones there's come get my body." We tolerate this because it is OUR server and OUR discord.

We do not tolerate people using our discord to break the rules of other servers.

[Harakoni warhawk]

But you tolerate your own staff breaking your Meta comm rule, but God forbid anyone else break the rule, seems pretty hypocritical to me.

So according to you Meta comms is allowed in CM proper which is the exact opposite of what your own rules say.

The only fucking reason I said I would get his body was that the Antagonist was abusing his Rule 1 protection to grief Durper and I couldn't Ahelp it as the Admins would just tell me to shut up or ignore it.

When a Antagonist goes out of their way to kill a random person, hide their body and ensure they can't be found, it's exploiting their Rule 1 protection and you can't do a thing about it.
Admins ignore people Ahelping about Antagonists doing that, though I doubt you've been on the receiving end of it.
It's one of the worst things to happen to a player, especially a new one.
THAT is why I went to find his body, before that it's was mostly just giving him advice about TG and giving him tips on how to do his job.

[Durper]

I applied the ban to both yourself and Warhawk. I have PMed the two who reported it to me in order for them to say what occurred here.

Also, we tolerate certain levels of metacomms on our server in our discord. General stuff like "I died" and whatnot. Not stuff like "I died in hydro, there are two drones there's come get my body." We tolerate this because it is OUR server and OUR discord.

We do not tolerate people using our discord to break the rules of other servers.

Thank you for bothering to PM them, I only know the situation in my perspective.

I didn't have any malicious intent on mentioning where and how I died, that's why when warhawk offered to find my body to bring it to cloning I refused because I didn't want him to act on the information I mentioned. <--sorry you were responding to warhawk I assume.

Does this mean this ban is never going to get lifted? or do I also have to appeal on the /tg/ forums?

[slc97]

But you tolerate your own staff breaking your Meta comm rule, but God forbid anyone else break the rule, seems pretty hypocritical to me.

So according to you Meta comms is allowed in CM proper which is the exact opposite of what your own rules say.

The only fucking reason I said I would get his body was that the Antagonist was abusing his Rule 1 protection to grief Durper and I couldn't Ahelp it as the Admins would just tell me to shut up or ignore it.

When a Antagonist goes out of their way to kill a random person, hide their body and ensure they can't be found, it's exploiting their Rule 1 protection and you can't do a thing about it.
Admins ignore people Ahelping about Antagonists doing that, though I doubt you've been on the receiving end of it.
It's one of the worst things to happen to a player, especially a new one.
THAT is why I went to find his body, before that it's was mostly just giving him advice about TG and giving him tips on how to do his job.

We allow certain levels of minor metacomms within the server discord. We allow it to be done on OUR server in OUR discord. We do not allow people to use our discord to break other server's rules. The last staff members who did that were removed from staff, banned from the server, and banned from the discord.

We are very serious about respecting other server's rights to exist and go unmolested by our staff and players. If you want to metacomm on another server, use Skype, a different discord, etc.

[Harakoni warhawk]

We allow certain levels of minor metacomms within the server discord. We allow it to be done on OUR server in OUR discord. We do not allow people to use our discord to break other server's rules. The last staff members who did that were removed from staff, banned from the server, and banned from the discord.

We are very serious about respecting other server's rights to exist and go unmolested by our staff and players. If you want to metacomm on another server, use Skype, a different discord, etc.

Hell, at least make that clear in the rules.
I get told by one Staff member that Meta comms is fine.
I get told by you that Minor Meta comming is allowed on CM proper.
Your rules say no Meta Comming at all.

How can I know what's allowed or not when 3 different sources tell me three separate things, it's bloody confusing, is what it it.

Who do I believe?
The staff on the Discord saying Meta comms is allowed.
You who says minor Meta comms is allowed on CM only.
Or Apop who seems to hate Meta commers.

[slc97]

You didn't get banned for metacomms you got banned for using our discord to break another server's rules.

[Durper]

We allow certain levels of minor metacomms within the server discord. We allow it to be done on OUR server in OUR discord. We do not allow people to use our discord to break other server's rules. The last staff members who did that were removed from staff, banned from the server, and banned from the discord.

We are very serious about respecting other server's rights to exist and go unmolested by our staff and players. If you want to metacomm on another server, use Skype, a different discord, etc.

Metacomming was my mistake, I'm sorry, I didn't have any intent on using meta information to disrupt or destroy the server. Is there any way for me to get unbanned from the Discord?

I enjoy talking to the other CM players playing or not, I promise to not use the CM discord to metacomm other servers again and to respect their servers rules.

I know you responded to Warhawk but I just wanted to say I'm genuinely sorry for this indecent, if there's anyway for me to get unbanned please tell me.

[Harakoni warhawk]

You didn't get banned for metacomms you got banned for using our discord to break another server's rules.

Alright, so your saying if we have to break another Servers rules, use Skype or Team speak and not CM Discord?

So your pissed we used CM Discord for Meta Comming not that we were Meta Comming itself?
Why did Apop say we got Discord Banned for Meta Comming then?

[slc97]

Because metacomms is against the other server's rules and you used our discord to break their rules. That's what it comes down to. You cannot use our server to break another's rules.

[Harakoni warhawk]

Because metacomms is against the other server's rules and you used our discord to break their rules. That's what it comes down to. You cannot use our server to break another's rules.

So is there any point appealing considering Apop has the final say and he seems to hate our guts for Meta Comming.

I'd rather not have to deal with more Staff telling me I got Discord Banned for Breaking one rule, then getting told I broke a different rule that I didn't know existed then getting told I'm allowed to break the first rule as long as it is only on this server.

Or is Apop going to come here and tell us that we aren't allowed to Meta Comm at all and that the other Staff lied to me?

EDIT: One thing I don't get is how the stories reported to you differ from the account we have given. Neither Durper nor me have any reason to lie in his Appeal given that's pretty counterproductive so the reports given have to be false in some way.

[Snypehunter007]

Alright, as the staff member who reported you to Basil, I will give you what happened from my side.

I received a informed that somebody was metacomms get on our discord. I jumped into the channel and listened in on the conversation. After listening in for a bit, I informed Feweh of it after clearly hearing yall talk about each other, round events, and locations.

I was told to report it to TG Basil after we figured out what server you guys were playing on. So, I jumped in game, reported to the staff there, and then they sent kevinz0000 over to listen in.

After that, you guys continued to talk about the round for awhile before kevin intervened. That is about where my side of it ends as I was neither in game nor informed what actions were taken by Basil staff.

Later, I informed my immediate boss, Slc about it when he came online. You were then banned from the discord at that point.

I was unable to record the situation due to my recording software being wiped to my hardrive going kaput a few months ago.

[Harakoni warhawk]

Alright, as the staff member who reported you to Basil, I will give you what happened from my side.

I received a informed that somebody was metacomms get on our discord. I jumped into the channel and listened in on the conversation. After listening in for a bit, I informed Feweh of it after clearly hearing yall talk about each other, round events, and locations.

I was told to report it to TG Basil after we figured out what server you guys were playing on. So, I jumped in game, reported to the staff there, and then they sent kevinz0000 over to listen in.

After that, you guys continued to talk about the round for awhile before kevin intervened. That is about where my side of it ends as I was neither in game nor informed what actions were taken by Basil staff.

Later, I informed my immediate boss, Slc about it when he came online. You were then banned from the discord at that point.

I was unable to record the situation due to my recording software being wiped to my hardrive going kaput a few months ago.

I find it odd that nobody seems to remember the Staff member saying that Meta comms were okay and that everyone does it.

Pretty convenient that nobody mentioned that,yes?

That when I started doing it and when Durper joined me, I spent most of it giving him tips about Basil and Map placement.
Like I have said previously, the big thing I did was attempt to go find Durper's body, as the Antag used his Rule 1 protection to grief and like hell could I Ahelp it, when I do Admins either tell me to shut up or spam restricted info everytime I ask.

Apop says we were banned for Meta Comms.
SLC says it wasn't for Meta Comming and that Meta Comms are ok on CM.
Your saying that Meta Comms are not allowed and why we got banned.

How the hell do I know which of you is lying to me and which one is telling the truth.

Three different Staff members, 3 different answers.
Can I hear the truth please, I've said nothing but the truth for what happened on my side but I'm getting three different Truths from the staff side of things.


I detailed what Kevinz did to us earlier on the thread, including the part where he Meta Commed a doctor to bring me Durper's body. He denied it of course.
But he just gave us a warning, no ban.

[Aetsuki]

Once again, SLC pointed out that you used our discord server to break another server's rules. That's the problem here. We removed two staff members for doing that exact thing, there is no tolerance for it. This isn't about our gameplay rules.

[Harakoni warhawk]

Once again, SLC pointed out that you used our discord server to break another server's rules. That's the problem here. We removed two staff members for doing that exact thing, there is no tolerance for it. This isn't about our gameplay rules.

Then make that clear in the rules, according to Apop we could appeal this but according to you we can't appeal.

So what's the point of trying to appeal when you get a Permanent Discord ban for doing something that's not shown in the rules.

I find it odd that the Staff can break their own Meta comm rule at will whenevery they want with no punishment.
Fucking hell, SLC said it was allowed, but God forbid you do it for another server on the Discord, then you get permanent banned for it..

Double Standards much, eh?

Say that we can't appeal this, rather than lying to me and saying we can, it gives the wrong impression oddly enough.

I'm thankful now Im no longer on the Discord, now I can't break more Secret rules that the Staff don't tell people about until you get the ban for Breaking them.

Apop said we can appeal but your saying you removed Staff for the same thing, implying there is no appeal.
Are you and SLC lying to me or is Apop, because someone is with how many conflicting answers I'm getting from the staff.

[Aetsuki]

Apop says we were banned for Meta Comms.
SLC says it wasn't for Meta Comming and that Meta Comms are ok on CM.
Your saying that Meta Comms are not allowed and why we got banned.

I don't understand why us removing staff means you can't appeal. Staff are held to higher standards.

Beyond that, yes. You were banned for metacomms. Slc made a minor error in his wording, you were banned for using our discord to metacomm on another server, thus breaking that server's rules. Hence, you were banned for metacomming and breaking a rule on another server. To reiterate, you should not be using our Discord to break another server's rules. That is why you were banned.

To put it more simply, you metacommed on another server and broke that server's rules. You broke our rules by using our discord to do it.

[Mordrehel]

Metacomming: using outside communication devices to gain knowledge that isn't commonly available made worse by acting on this information in game. None of this is allowed anywhere, things like mother reports or simple deaths or a silly story that won't effect the CM round we generally allow for our server things like getting together with friends and doing something on other servers (against their rules) is never okay. The issue here has little to do with what we see as minor on their server, if its against the rules to their staff we respect their decision and ask that our players don't break them either, should you break their rules (as you did) you will be banned from our discord.

In short: some things may be okay here but aren't elsewhere, you use our stuff to break other people's rules you get banned.

[Harakoni warhawk]

I don't understand why us removing staff means you can't appeal. Staff are held to higher standards.

Beyond that, yes. You were banned for metacomms. Slc made a minor error in his wording, you were banned for using our discord to metacomm on another server, thus breaking that server's rules. Hence, you were banned for metacomming and breaking a rule on another server. To reiterate, you should not be using our Discord to break another server's rules. That is why you were banned.

To put it more simply, you metacommed on another server and broke that server's rules. You broke our rules by using our discord to do it.

You let your own Staff Meta Comm IC info on CM which breaks your rules but you don't punish them.
Fucking hell, SLC said if I was going to Meta comm use Team speak or Skype, not Don't Meta Comm.

Since I joined the CM Discord I have heard Multiple Staff members exchange IC information including position to each other over the Discord and none of you care!

That's the only reason I ever started doing it in the first place, because I saw your own Staff do it with no punishment.
But oddly enough nobody seems to remember that or the fact that everyone is ignoring the Staff member who said 'It's okay, everyone does it here' on the same day I got banned for Meta Comming.

Ergo, you overlook your own Staff breaking the Meta Comms rule or nobody thought a Staff Member saying that was odd.

The fact I never reported it was because it was STAFF doing it, with no punishment at all.
What's the point of having a Discord if you only enforce your Meta Comm rule for Non Staff?

[Durper]

You let your own Staff Meta Comm IC info on CM which breaks your rules but you don't punish them.
Fucking hell, SLC said if I was going to Meta comm use Team speak or Skype, not Don't Meta Comm.

Since I joined the CM Discord I have heard Multiple Staff members exchange IC information including position to each other over the Discord and none of you care!

That's the only reason I ever started doing it in the first place, because I saw your own Staff do it with no punishment.
But oddly enough nobody seems to remember that or the fact that everyone is ignoring the Staff member who said 'It's okay, everyone does it here' on the same day I got banned for Meta Comming.

Ergo, you overlook your own Staff breaking the Meta Comms rule or nobody thought a Staff Member saying that was odd.

The fact I never reported it was because it was STAFF doing it, with no punishment at all.
What's the point of having a Discord if you only enforce your Meta Comm rule for Non Staff?

Warhawk, first of all thanks for Giving your side of the story for my appeal, Second I don't appreciate you using my Ban appeal as a platform to complain about the rules and guidelines of the CM Discord,

I already understood I broke the Discord server rules and Basil server rules, That's why I made an appeal to Apologize and seek forgiveness, not to constantly complain about the written and unwritten rules.
From the short time meeting you I know you're not that bad of a guy but please, if you want to make any complaints make another thread about it because it feels like the constant arguing in my appeal will result to it being auto denied by the majority of the staff.

I don't mean any ill will but it's just that you're slightly derailing my appeal.

I should've PM'ed you this but I want the staff to know that I'm not making you do all the complaining/talking, and that I do not agree to your points of arguments.

[Harakoni warhawk]

Warhawk, first of all thanks for Giving your side of the story for my appeal, Second I don't appreciate you using my Ban appeal as a platform to complain about the rules and guidelines of the CM Discord,

I already understood I broke the Discord server rules and Basil server rules, That's why I made an appeal to Apologize and seek forgiveness, not to constantly complain about the written and unwritten rules.
From the short time meeting you I know you're not that bad of a guy but please, if you want to make any complaints make another thread about it because it feels like the constant arguing in my appeal will result to it being auto denied by the majority of the staff.

I don't mean any ill will but it's just that you're slightly derailing my appeal.

I should've PM'ed you this but I want the staff to know that I'm not making you do all the complaining/talking, and that I do not agree to your points of arguments.

Fuck, I knew this would happen...
I'm really sorry Mate, Co side this me withdrawing anything I've said here as it seems to have reduced your chance of getting the ban lifted.

Please pin the blame for this on me, I'm begging you.
I'm the one who insisted you Meta Comm and it's my fault you got Discord Banned.
I caused this, I'm the one at fault and I'm the one to blame for you getting banned, fucking hell, it was on my insistence that yuou did it and you tried to tell me not to but I ignored you.

I guess I'll try and file a Staff Report instead of venting here and fucking up your Appeal.
Good luck and pin the blame on me because I'm the one at fault not you.

[Feweh]

I have no issue with this being lifted, you should be punished on the opposing servers not on ours.

[slc97]

At this point, I would actually fully support a repeal of the ban on Durper. He has shown an understanding of what he did wrong, legitimate remorse, as well as instilled in me a belief that he will not repeat his mistakes.

Warhawk, on the other hand, continues to fail to understand his own actions and the ban that resulted, and has fallen back to referring to staff as hypocrits and liers. Warhawk, you were not banned for metacomming on our server. You were banned for using our discord to metacomm on another server which is against THEIR rules. Using OUR discord to break ANOTHER SERVER'S RULES is not tolerated.