Update Powergaming Rules

[Karmac]

Summary (a quick, 2-3 sentence summary): If you could update the server rules to include 'Taking extra materials as combat engineer at round start' in the powergaming tab that'd free up alot of confusion, almost got bonked for it today because I presumed it was okay to take from engie storage if you had the chief engie's permission, I've done this multiple times before and even told other people that you have to ask the CE for permission, so as a result I've probably end up causing trouble for some poor sod.

Benefits (How this will benefit the server and game as a whole): Clear clarification on a rule that is very strictly enforced.

Details (Description of how you think this would work, the benefits, etc):

Implementation (Optional, if you have an idea how to implement it):

[Nubs]

i agree this should be added to the rules if it is considered powergaming.

[Retro]

I agree this should be added to the rules if it is considered power gaming.

How is this power gaming? If you take extra materials, it is not, that's like saying you can only take one mag on your gun, taking extra for a FOB is just being smart and not having to rely on the bald RO to order it.

[coroneljones]

How is this power gaming? If you take extra materials, it is not, that's like saying you can only take one mag on your gun, taking extra for a FOB is just being smart and not having to rely on the bald RO to order it.

It is already considered powergaming
Engineers have all that they need for a basic FOB in their prep room.

[Karmac]

It is already considered powergaming
Engineers have all that they need for a basic FOB in their prep room.

There's an argument to make about that, but I'll leave it for another time.

[Crab_Spider]

There's an argument to make about that, but I'll leave it for another time.

Or you can get what you need from the autolathe and distribute it equally to the other Engineers

[Karmac]

>distribute equally, you only need a maximum of 4 engineers actually using those materials, and that's to build the FOB or Reinforce the LZ, if you build anywhere other than that you're wasting materials and time. And since 4 Engineers only means 2 squads due to the terrible squad distribution code, you're missing out on half of the maximum allowed Engineering supplies.

ALSO. If we're allowed to make metal using a lathe, why the heck can't we just take the stuff from Engineering Storage? MT's can use lathe's too you know. This all seems a tad silly.

[Snypehunter007]

Or you can get what you need from the autolathe and distribute it equally to the other Engineers

ALSO. If we're allowed to make metal using a lathe, why the heck can't we just take the stuff from Engineering Storage?

Also considered powergaming if you are doing this at roundstart.

[Karmac]

Also considered powergaming if you are doing this at roundstart.

another thing I'd like to see added to the written rules because I know a lot of people do this.

Seriously what's the point in having a list of rules if half of them are hidden to the playerbase.

[Snypehunter007]

another thing I'd like to see added to the written rules because I know a lot of people do this.

Seriously what's the point in having a list of rules if half of them are hidden to the playerbase.

We don't have "hidden rules". It just the fact that we aren't going list the 200 possible situations of powergaming or any of the other rules because it would take too much time.

Also it would lead to players seeing the examples and say "Well my situation isn't on the list so it isn't powergaming."

[Karmac]

Well don't have "hidden rules". It just the fact that we aren't going list the 200 possible situations of powergaming or any of the other rules because it would take too much time.

Also it would lead to players seeing the examples and say "Well my situation isn't on the list so it isn't powergaming."

eurgh, life is hard

[Swagile]

Another arbitrary way of nerfing marines while not seeing the actual effect it has on marine vs xeno combat alongside a lack of admins actually playing the game and realizing said effect on the marines or they wouldn't be making that part of the "powergaming" rules (something xenos are exempt from).

[TheSpoonyCroy]

-snip-

Funny, you sir are quite the funny man. I'm going to assume by admins you mean general staff (mods/mins/maybe even mentors), I can assure you contrary to popular belief, most of them either play marines or a mixture of marines and xenos, with only a handful of them either not playing the game at all or are xeno "mains". Also I don't know why people are arguing this is mostly powergaming when it can easily be classed as metagaming since why the hell, do you guys need to build a fortress for a simple distress call (to the marine's knowledge).

[Swagile]

Funny, you sir are quite the funny man. I'm going to assume by admins you mean general staff (mods/mins/maybe even mentors), I can assure you contrary to popular belief, most of them either play marines or a mixture of marines and xenos, with only a handful of them either not playing the game at all or are xeno "mains". Also I don't know why people are arguing this is mostly powergaming when it can easily be classed as metagaming since why the hell, do you guys need to build a fortress for a simple distress call (to the marine's knowledge).

I don't know, maybe because its a colony that is fully functioning with its own security force, and distress beacons are only sent when everything has went to hell?

So its assumed your going to something akin to a war zone, considering a distress beacon = extinction level event to a colony that should be able to hold its own against almost everything except for heavy military level resistance.

[TheSpoonyCroy]

-snip-

Its a colony of around 40 people.... The "sec force" is probably 3 or 4 people. The living quarters of the colony is 18 beds. The security force has revolvers and a beanbag shotgun... You don't need a extinction level threat to call a distress call, its basically a small town. So thinking its a "war zone" is just a way to justify this behavior. If you want to go back to the "Lore" of aliens, Lv 426 was a colony of 198 people, they go dark, the USCM only drops a single squad or fireteam depending on how you define it

[Sneakyr]

As long as staff remain lenient on someone "powergaming" if it is their first time doing whatever it is I don't see too much of a problem. Sure, it'd be useful to have it in the written rules, but I can see Snype's point.

[Swagile]

Its a colony of around 40 people.... The "sec force" is probably 3 or 4 people. The living quarters of the colony is 18 beds. The security force has revolvers and a beanbag shotgun... You don't need a extinction level threat to call a distress call, its basically a small town. So thinking its a "war zone" is just a way to justify this behavior. If you want to go back to the "Lore" of aliens, Lv 426 was a colony of 198 people, they go dark, the USCM only drops a single squad or fireteam depending on how you define it

But it was a extinction level event.

There are only two to three survivors out of the entire colony.

And I never went on about the lore, im saying that sending a distress beacon is a last resort; something you only do when your screwed. Hence whatever wiped out the colony has to be a huge threat.

[TheSpoonyCroy]

-snip-

You do know an extinction level threat doesn't have to be a physical one... Could of easily been an disease for all we know, an environmental issue, something about engineering failing and they have no way to replace/fix it, the colony no longer being self sufficient, the list just goes on... So making the assumption that its sort warzone is just odd, you are just using metaknowledge of how the rounds go to influence this line of thought

[Swagile]

You do know an extinction level threat doesn't have to be a physical one... Could of easily been an disease for all we know, an environmental issue, something about engineering failing and they have no way to replace/fix it, the colony no longer being self sufficient, the list just goes on... So making the assumption that its sort warzone is just odd, you are just using metaknowledge of how the rounds go to influence this line of thought

A disease?

Marines don't go down in hazmat suits.

Environmental? Same issue, no protection against a tornado or whatever environmental hazard.

Engineering failing? They use the safest possible generators (though they fail a lot, they won't blow up, unlike a SM).

Colony not being self sufficient? Ok, ill give you that one, its a possibility for a distress beacon.

Again, why send a MILITARY VESSEL to a Colony when they could easily just send qualified personnel to fix above issues instead? They have to have had some sort of reason to send the military and it isn't just because a colony went dark, but more so because of the nature of the distress beacon.

[coroneljones]

A disease?

Marines don't go down in hazmat suits.

Environmental? Same issue, no protection against a tornado or whatever environmental hazard.

Engineering failing? They use the safest possible generators (though they fail a lot, they won't blow up, unlike a SM).

Colony not being self sufficient? Ok, ill give you that one, its a possibility for a distress beacon.

Again, why send a MILITARY VESSEL to a Colony when they could easily just send qualified personnel to fix above issues instead? They have to have had some sort of reason to send the military and it isn't just because a colony went dark, but more so because of the nature of the distress beacon.

First the beacon doesnt specify what the issue is, its just a big SEND HELP blimp on the radar/comms/map
Second, the sulaco was the nearest vessel to the colony, which is why they are investigating it i belive

Third, its a wey yu colony, the sulaco has wey yu presence, why send your own team and possibly waste resources for some time, when you can send a military vessel that is near the place with someone to keep track of the issue and report it all to the company?

[Swagile]

First the beacon doesnt specify what the issue is, its just a big SEND HELP blimp on the radar/comms/map
Second, the sulaco was the nearest vessel to the colony, which is why they are investigating it i belive

Third, its a wey yu colony, the sulaco has wey yu presence, why send your own team and possibly waste resources for some time, when you can send a military vessel that is near the place with someone to keep track of the issue and report it all to the company?

Ah, that explains it.

[KittyLava]

Ah, that explains it.

There's also the bug hunt explanation as to why the distress signal is going off, which is basically malfunctioning equipment and the colonists didn't even know it went off till someone arrives bringing the matter up, then you have your field technicians have to attempt figuring out what just malfunctioned and resolve it.

So short version is, all they know is the beacon is active now for whatever reason. Assumptions can be made or speculated about whatever it is; however that's just what they are until landing and identifying the situation. You're not expecting combat on first drop but marines are geared up likely as protocol for them responding to something unknown, investigate and report back to command. Heck for example you could have pirates or rebels responsible and they're perhaps attempting to acquire more resources by posing as colony personal left behind. Besides that, the field engineers have materials for setting up a forward operations base, which will be where new personal rally towards upon landing, supplies, etc. Depending upon things, occasionally a doctor or MT might be sent down to assist, maybe hazmat suit on if there's something biological like disease and they're screening to vaccinating personal so the rest of their crew don't get whatever caused the illness. Additional supplies sent down are generally after the FoB is set up, radio in what's required, and stand by for resupply by Rasputin or supply drop depending upon the situation and urgency.

Regardless marines are first deployed to figure out what's wrong, given the Sulaco is a military vessel, attempt to identify and resolve the situation. Does give rp options here or there, even for the MPs as they've got to attempt identifying if any colonist brought up is whom they're claiming to be, whilst insuring they're not bringing any weapons on board as they're a civilian and not likely cleared for bringing one up with him.

[Nightcaper]

+1, if someone infracts on a rule, it should be written down. Of course not every single situation can be covered, but the ones that wouldn't be immediately obvious to any normal human being with common sense, should be written down. I imagine it would also reduce ahelp tieups as a result of an unwritten rule condition that isn't immediately obvious.

[Abbysynth]

+1, I've been dinged for things repeatedly that I argued were not powergaming, but to somebody else they were, and therefore was punishable even though I had no idea it constituted powergaming because it was never actually mentioned anywhere. Even more examples of what is and isn't against the rules would be nice. You can't base rules on 'common sense', that's just idiotic, because as we all know nobody actually has that.

[Karmac]

+1, I've been dinged for things repeatedly that I argued were not powergaming, but to somebody else they were, and therefore was punishable even though I had no idea it constituted powergaming because it was never actually mentioned anywhere. Even more examples of what is and isn't against the rules would be nice. You can't base rules on 'common sense', that's just idiotic, because as we all know nobody actually has that.

The whole 'common sense' thing is the biggest issue I have with the 'unwritten rules' thing and I'm glad other people realise it's dumb as well.