Findings since the temporary update

[caleeb101]

Well. One thing I can say for sure is that it wasn't at ALL what I expected to happen. I haven't found any thread that really hit this nail on the head so I thought I'd make one. Aliens now dominate the marines, and it's consistently the with the same situation. The marines will attack, find themselves over-run and retreat to the sulaco only to be met with 33 xenos. Which of course, they stand NO chance against. The xeno number is so big, it makes the marines population look like it's always on early population. In one round today, I went down on the pod. We were a squad of 5 people. After a bit of scouting, we found the xenos. Rather, they found us. Their full force attacked us and all I can say is I've never seen so many runners pounce me at once. It felt good to kill two like they were nothing, but then 4 ganged up on me. It was more real than with hugger combat though and in a way, it feels better. Carriers though. They are literally the new meta. Unstoppable from Young to Ancient. If a marine catches a carrier, that's a dent in the xeno force. You can never find less than 2 carriers in a hive unless they have just been killed. It's quite fascinating to see such a change in a short time. Anyways, what has everyone else noticed? This isn't a rant or anything. I feel like I should clear that up. It's simply what people have NOTICED.

[Feweh]

Well. One thing I can say for sure is that it wasn't at ALL what I expected to happen. I haven't found any thread that really hit this nail on the head so I thought I'd make one. Aliens now dominate the marines, and it's consistently the with the same situation. The marines will attack, find themselves over-run and retreat to the sulaco only to be met with 33 xenos. Which of course, they stand NO chance against. The xeno number is so big, it makes the marines population look like it's always on early population. In one round today, I went down on the pod. We were a squad of 5 people. After a bit of scouting, we found the xenos. Rather, they found us. Their full force attacked us and all I can say is I've never seen so many runners pounce me at once. It felt good to kill two like they were nothing, but then 4 ganged up on me. It was more real than with hugger combat though and in a way, it feels better. Carriers though. They are literally the new meta. Unstoppable from Young to Ancient. If a marine catches a carrier, that's a dent in the xeno force. You can never find less than 2 carriers in a hive unless they have just been killed. It's quite fascinating to see such a change in a short time. Anyways, what has everyone else noticed? This isn't a rant or anything. I feel like I should clear that up. It's simply what people have NOTICED.

We are literally throwing around random changes to just simply test stuff, its not supposed to be overly balanced.

[Daman453]

The new meta is xeno rush when marines set up defenses. no meta there.

[Sneakyr]

A single competent carrier can dominate the entire defensive force (sometimes even an offensive force) of marines without concern with the competency of the marines. The only way to survive a carrier attack is to hide behind other people and let them take the instahug.

[Karmac]

I'm yet to see a noticeable difference in gameplay as a Combat Engineer, and I've seen marines still stomping xeno in middle-pop rounds, haven't been on for a highpop round, lowpop is still pretty normal too.

[Renomaki]

Being this is a test, everyone should have some input on it to ensure that we get something we can all agree on.

And like a lot of people been saying, it seems carriers are the new "crusher" so to speak. Crushers are still aplenty, but now it seems like a priority to have at least 1 carrier now, and very often I see them in twos. They were pretty annoying in the right hands, but with how helmets and huggers work in this test, a good carrier with a good supply of eggs will dominate.

Times like this make me wish how helmets used to protect you from a single hug attempt, giving you at least a second chance if you slip up, and even if you do get hugged, a marine could come save you before you are given a death timer. Now both those things are gone (in this test, anyways), making combat a whole lot more stressful when a carrier is involved.

Take away the carriers, though, and combat between marines and xenos is pretty decent. Aliens have proven to be quite capable in combat without the crutch that is hugger combat. There have been rounds where the marines lasted a good long while before falling, showing that the carriers aren't steamrolling marines that bad.. At least from my experience.

Still, when the removal of hugger combat is for real, I think if we kept the concept of helmets protecting against huggers and allowing marines to pull off huggers like before, it would make things a little more fair for marines. Things like hugger AI can stay, since it makes egg fields a real threat and not just a humble burden.

[ZDashe]

This is one of the very few findings I have so far, where aliens murder more often than capturing and infecting marines > viewtopic.php?f=64&p=119038#p119038

Also, I notice that some carrier players who were used to the longer throw ranges are finding themselves struggling to be frontline solo troops. They either die trying to solo cheese with tossing huggers, or they run out of valuable huggers (500 plasma each). Carriers might find their place as support troops more often now hopefully.

[Karmac]

My opinion is and always will be that Carriers are Skirmishers, this update just further consolidates that fact, you should be employing hit and run tactics alongside other xeno, you aren't Rambo with a backpack full of C4, you're a squishy alien with a piss weak arm.

[CrimsonAerospace]

Everything in the following Forum Post is subject to change, it is purely my own PERSONAL input, based on what I've seen. Feel free to correct me or add to what I'm saying here, or disagree/agree with me. This is purely for staff/players to read and build on.
Please do not tell me THIS IS ONLY A TEST. I know it's a test, I'm providing feedback for if they deiced to keep it somewhat like it is when released.

So, your friendly Forum-stalking Ginger has some input...


These are my personal findings based off who I've talked to and what I've experienced

So, to start off, I chatted with a Carrier in D-Chat, and we joked about how he was practically unstoppable on Weeds due to emitting the frenzy pheromone, and I was informed on how he enjoyed ganking the entire marine assault with huggers, by just Frenzy-sprinting through and tossing huggers at the marines who can't even resist one.

Another, is the fact that Carriers seem to have a ridiculous range, one that from what I read got even BETTER lately. Now couple that range, with the ability to from Young, carry 6, and up to Ancient, I believe carry 9...? Couple all that together, and you've got a salty deadchat on your hands. And no one wants a salty deadchat.

Now on yet ANOTHER note, it seems to me Carriers are decently robust. One of them took multiple rather accurate bursts from a smartgun, and shrugged most of it off while dancing off in Frenzy, and another wasn't even in Frenzy and still managed.


MY THEORY

I'm not a Dev, and as Snype or any other member of staff can attest to, god AWFUL at making suggestions, but here is what I propose -
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For me, just about EVERYTHING in this test works fine, except, for the Carriers, the Alien Meta, and the Aliens desire to just murder freely instead of even try to infect.


Problem A - Nerf Carriers, just nerf them. Dumb down their range a tile, maybe, I'm not sure what the max range is. Decrease their health a smidgen, and remove their ability to caste pheromones. Make it so they can no longer solo a whole squad of marines.

Problem B - Enforce stricter meta rules, or appease Aliens somehow. Sacrifice a Ripley effigy at their Hive, I'unno.

Problem C - Either nerf Alien damage all together, or let aliens carry at MOST one hugger, at MOST.

[Feweh]

Being this is a test, everyone should have some input on it to ensure that we get something we can all agree on.

Whoa there, must of missed the democratic movement recently.

[immaspaceninja]

Well, before devs will throw next couple of 'random changes' for another test(If we will have one), they probably should think why people want hugger combat to go.
Nobody likes cheap deaths, when you can't do anything to save yourself.
The main problem with the current test is the fact that devs simply reduced the ammount of huggers and aliens carrying them, buffing their 'stopping power' at the same time, creating that terrible carrier meta, where marines either get their head huggered-n-cut even easier or have to go back to sully ASAP, spending minimum 20 minutes not doing anything fun if they dont want to be removed from the round, because the cloning system is gone and there's no way to return bursted marines to life.

Its time to stop.

[Swagile]

The whole hugger meta wouldn't be so bad if marines weren't hampered by so many metagame and powergame rules.

Like one round, marines lost the planet in ONE HOUR because xenos camped engineering with a carrier + crusher combo (their excuse was that they were "chasing" a colonist but bringing your most powerful members to chase one colonist is suspicious as fucking hell). Then, when we barely had any time to setup, they started attacking LZ1 and cut us off from the Rasp for most of the game, rendering the table fort Garth made in Center Nexus absolutely useless.

If marines did this to xenos (see: 4 SADAR raid on caves with FOB right at the entrance to Caves) you'd be seeing a LOT of bans being handed out and / or MOTHER nuking everyone from orbit.

This BS double standard alongside the hugger buffs to carrier forces marines to keep losing without even a single chance at victory since marines can't even setup without at least a quarter of the marines being hugged before the one hour mark and another quarter being charged to death by xenos due to a lack of time to build decent barricades.

[Feweh]

The whole hugger meta wouldn't be so bad if marines weren't hampered by so many metagame and powergame rules.

Like one round, marines lost the planet in ONE HOUR because xenos camped engineering with a carrier + crusher combo (their excuse was that they were "chasing" a colonist but bringing your most powerful members to chase one colonist is suspicious as fucking hell). Then, when we barely had any time to setup, they started attacking LZ1 and cut us off from the Rasp for most of the game, rendering the table fort Garth made in Center Nexus absolutely useless.

If marines did this to xenos (see: 4 SADAR raid on caves with FOB right at the entrance to Caves) you'd be seeing a LOT of bans being handed out and / or MOTHER nuking everyone from orbit.

This BS double standard alongside the hugger buffs to carrier forces marines to keep losing without even a single chance at victory since marines can't even setup without at least a quarter of the marines being hugged before the one hour mark and another quarter being charged to death by xenos due to a lack of time to build decent barricades.

Not really a double standard, its pretty basic.


Xenos control the entire colony at round start and theyre the weakest at round start. Marines dont control or have knowledge of the entire colony at round start BUT are their strongest at round start.

So they offset themselves on their own as we enforce this for MEDIUM RP reasons. Othewise every round youd have marines land and all 60 marines run to the caves.

Its pretty straightforward and obvious.

[Karmac]

I've found the only issues are Carriers Health Pool is a little high for a 'Support' xeno, they've been running face first into my barricades and making it away one too many times for it to make sense. And other xeno castes have gotten a bit more killy than they used to be, not sure if that helps them or not.

[Swagile]

Not really a double standard, its pretty basic.


Xenos control the entire colony at round start and theyre the weakest at round start. Marines dont control or have knowledge of the entire colony at round start BUT are their strongest at round start.

So they offset themselves on their own as we enforce this for MEDIUM RP reasons. Othewise every round youd have marines land and all 60 marines run to the caves.

Its pretty straightforward and obvious.

Its not very obvious when they can push marines back from the FOB not even an hour in as they already have T3's ready to shrek the marines.

And marines don't grow any powerful over time, but if the xenos are good, they can meta camp / meta rush early on and slowly grow more powerful while the marines are stranded and can't take advantage of their "superior firepower" early on, something that isn't as superior as you think it is when marines are rushed early and cut off from supplies + medical.

[Feweh]

Its not very obvious when they can push marines back from the FOB not even an hour in as they already have T3's ready to shrek the marines.

And marines don't grow any powerful over time, but if the xenos are good, they can meta camp / meta rush early on and slowly grow more powerful while the marines are stranded and can't take advantage of their "superior firepower" early on, something that isn't as superior as you think it is when marines are rushed early and cut off from supplies + medical.

Which, not blaming you... but if your team is cut off from critical supplies/evac early on would be extremely incompetent of leadership.

[Karmac]

Which, not blaming you... but if your team is cut off from critical supplies/evac early on would be extremely incompetent of leadership.

can I get a guide on how 2 blame all my problems on command staff Feweh?

[Swagile]

Which, not blaming you... but if your team is cut off from critical supplies/evac early on would be extremely incompetent of leadership.

Based on that argument, it would be very incompetent leadership by the Queen if she allows Marines to setup a FOB right at the Caves entrance with 4 SADARS aimed at each entrance, and we should blame the Queen, not impose metagaming rules on Marines.

[Feweh]

Based on that argument, it would be very incompetent leadership by the Queen if she allows Marines to setup a FOB right at the Caves entrance with 4 SADARS aimed at each entrance, and we should blame the Queen, not impose metagaming rules on Marines.

This argument doesnt make any sense really.


We're Medium RP and have roleplay guidelines and metagaming knowledge.

How do Marines know about a Queen, Hive within 15 minutes of landing? Sure one squad can theoretically follow an alien back to the hive. But theres no acceptable circumstance where what you described should be happening 15 minutes into marine landing.

See if we allowed Marines to instantly run to the hive, youd have all 4 squads there doing that.

[Swagile]

This argument doesnt make any sense really.


We're Medium RP and have roleplay guidelines and metagaming knowledge.

How do Marines know about a Queen, Hive within 15 minutes of landing? Sure one squad can theoretically follow an alien back to the hive. But theres no acceptable circumstance where what you described should be happening 15 minutes into marine landing.

See if we allowed Marines to instantly run to the hive, youd have all 4 squads there doing that.

Your argument doesn't make sense.

How do Aliens know about reinforcements coming from the USMC minutes within hatching and becoming higher tier castes / Queen? Sure one runner might come by and see them come down from the sky. But its not an acceptable circumstance where aliens attack in full force 15 minutes after marine landing.

See if we allowed Xenos to instantly run to LZ1, you'd have all the xenos doing -- oh wait.

Thats... exactly what happens.

[Crab_Spider]

From what I've seen, the update forces Marines to stay together and shine lights just about everywhere. Xeno players are essentially more hostile and cooperative together, without the use of huggers, they have no restraint on lethal force anymore. Carriers are literally more common than ever, and but have little purpose than infecting.
Field doctors have also become more common, and even more reliant on surgery crates from Req.
More Marines are using slugs, more likely because of Carriers or huggers' leap range.
Hunters and Crushers gotten more careless.

[Feweh]

Your argument doesn't make sense.

How do Aliens know about reinforcements coming from the USMC minutes within hatching and becoming higher tier castes / Queen? Sure one runner might come by and see them come down from the sky. But its not an acceptable circumstance where aliens attack in full force 15 minutes after marine landing.

See if we allowed Xenos to instantly run to LZ1, you'd have all the xenos doing -- oh wait.

Thats... exactly what happens.

I dont think you understand roleplay or metagaming.

Xenos killed the colonist, they understand basic human interaction and behavior.

They also control the entire colony at round start, meaning they arent restricted to certain areas. Further-more, they share a hivemind and all previous knowledge of dead and alive aliens is known to them. Which is why they know about USCM and humans upon hatching. This is very basic lore that you should know?

Final point, if you've seen Aliens they kill the dropship pilots in the movie AND disable power. They understand functions and purposes of humans.

You dont seem to have a grasp on roleplay, metagaming or alien lore. I feel like Im having to explain very basic concepts to you for some reason?

[RadiantFlash]

Feweh, I think his point is that, xenos holding key points marines need/rushing the lz at the start of the operation is equivalent to marines metarushing in his eyes, from a balance perspective. I don't agree with it, but thats what he's trying to say.

[Feweh]

Feweh, I think his point is that, xenos holding key points marines need/rushing the lz at the start of the operation is equivalent to marines metarushing in his eyes, from a balance perspective. I don't agree with it, but thats what he's trying to say.

Yes, in clearly aware since im arguing and defending the reason as to why we maintain meta-gaming rules and enforce no meta-rushing.

[Swagile]

Yet you don't enforce meta rushing and metagaming rules on Xenos, which is what I am trying to argue.

If you argue it via lore perspectives, id argue that lore wise, marines would lose 99% of the rounds.

But this is a game, and we all play it to have fun, not to get rofl stomped by Xenos without being able to do much about it besides shrug our shoulders and que up for a new round, hoping xenos won't take advantage of their meta knowledge of how weak marines really are due to the rules forced upon them to "behave or get banned".