Remove Slashing Permissions or Move to Per Player Basis (if the hugger changes stick)

[Casgair]

Summary:
With the removal of hugger combat not being able to slash as a Runner (or even aggressive Sentinel) caste makes it nearly impossible to deal with more than a couple marines. As having anything but full slashing on is a major hindrance to the hive, having hive-wide permissions for slashing with the hugger change is unnecessary. Yes, there are always a couple shitters that kill infected hosts (with or without hugger combat, honestly), but even then it's usually not in the hive's best interest to disable slashing over a couple lost larva. Optionally the Slashing Restriction code could be moved over to an on-player basis so the Queen would have more command over specific Xenos rather than removing it outright.

Benefits:
Xenos won't be totally handicapped when a Queen doesn't know what she's doing/AFKs without enabling slashing, and stay dangerous as per lore. Queen doesn't have to deal with something that's superfluous given the change in meta, and if an on player basis slashing restriction is done it -might- help reduce killing infected/nested hosts. Furthermore, nobody has to get worked up over slashing.

Details:
This would work by simply removing/commenting out the code for hive-wide restrictions and giving the hive default slashing capability. Benefits as above, runner caste is no longer handicapped as lack of huggers makes the inability to slash nonsensical. The optional per-player restriction could potentially help reduce loss of potential larva. Maybe.

Implementation:
Aside from the obvious commenting out, the existing hivewide code could be moved over to a on player basis -- restriction might be time-based (like a 1 to 3 minute restriction) so the Queen doesn't have to micromanage or potentially handicap a xeno for an entire round; Xenos with slashing restricted slashing could show up on the Queen's status tab as a quick reminder, as well as on the affected Xeno's status tab.

[laserdogbad]

+1 smash that Slash Up Butteon

[NescauComToddy]

Why do you think devs added the slashing restriction?

Runners aren't supposed to deal/rush a couple of Marines, If you are a Xeno player, you know what happens when one does that.

Also, why do you want its removal If Queens those days obey they hive instead of making them follow her? There Is no discipline among Xenos each round that passes until a Pro Queen decides to act. The Slashing restriction will be mostly off at 12:35, when a RUNNER tries to Kill a marine but forgets that he can't and, obviously get rushed/ganked and eventually, killed.

There Is no need to remove It; It will only encourage players to try to kill everything they find round start and die miserably. If you want this because a Xeno always dies when Marines land, It Isn't the mechanic that got's to change, It Is the player that thinks he can Solo a Marine alone.

Did I hear that, when A queen doesn't allow slashing, she Is a baldie? "Much wrung u are," queens don't prefer to gut everything If SHE CAN infect everything. Killing Isn't the main thing Inside a little xenomorph brain; Reproducing Is the thing that should be In they small box.

All you got to do Is, Speak with the queen when your little sister gets' killed to allow slashing. Even If It Is wrong, just say It and >Profit<

10/10 Would slash again.

[Casgair]

... Did I hear that, when A queen doesn't allow slashing, she Is a baldie? "Much wrung u are," queens don't prefer to gut everything If SHE CAN infect everything. Killing Isn't the main thing Inside a little xenomorph brain; Reproducing Is the thing that should be In they small box.

As a runner (speak nothing of the runner caste -- it's well within reason to have a couple T3s out and about by the time the Marines actually hit the dirt), hit and run tactics (and maybe lucking out breaking a bone somewhere) is your bread and butter. Not sure how much you've been playing xeno lately, but it's a lot easier to run in, slash somebody once or twice and pounce out than it is to tacklespam a marine back to the hive, especially when you've got a lot of hot lead actively looking to give you a thorough rectal probing. The objective doesn't have to be killing a marine, wounding a few players is generally enough to slow down their advance and buy the hive time to get stronger during the early parts of the round where you don't have a reliable way to actually infect anyone.

Getting to the quoted material, I don't think I've ever played a round where restricting/disallowing slashing was actually to the hive's benefit. On the other hand, I can think of rounds where having slashing off allowed marines to easily push north of the bridge on LV-624 with little hindrance beyond boiler/spitter acid. So sure, in the lore infection is best. I don't think anybody is going to argue that one. In actual meta though, you generally don't -need- a glut of braindead larva, which is a lot more difficult to achieve outside of lowpop rounds now that Carriers are the only major vector of infection.

[NescauComToddy]

As a runner (speak nothing of the runner caste -- it's well within reason to have a couple T3s out and about by the time the Marines actually hit the dirt), hit and run tactics (and maybe lucking out breaking a bone somewhere) is your bread and butter. Not sure how much you've been playing Xeno lately, but it's a lot easier to run in, slash somebody once or twice and pounce out than it is to tackle spam a marine back to the hive, especially when you've got a lot of hot lead actively looking to give you a thorough rectal probing. The objective doesn't have to be killing a marine, wounding a few players is generally enough to slow down their advance and buy the hive time to get stronger during the early parts of the round where you don't have a reliable way to actually infect anyone.

Getting to the quoted material, I don't think I've ever played a round where restricting/disallowing slashing was actually to the hive's benefit. On the other hand, I can think of rounds where having slashing off allowed marines to easily push north of the bridge on LV-624 with little hindrance beyond boiler/spitter acid. So sure, in the lore infection is best. I don't think anybody is going to argue that one. In actual meta, though, you generally don't -need- a glut of brain-dead larva, which is a lot more difficult to achieve outside of lowpop rounds now that Carriers are the only major vector of infection.

The thing Is, slashing will be allowed even before a Push. The benefits of not slashing are basically indirect, you won't "See" then until end-round, No need to ask a Suggestion like this one If what you Suggests happens each Round before 12:40, That Is 10 Minutes after Marines land.
About the wounding players part, we all know that you don't want to simply wound a Marine.

I already played as Queen many times before, Always had at least +29 Xenos In my hive, You can trust me, It Is good to Have the restrictions depending on each round situation.

You may slash marines to fulfill your desire of Hitting everything and everyone, just wait 10 Minutes, please. As I said, If you can't wait for It, ask your Queen to allow It, If she Does don't know what to do, she Will say Yes without any doubts, even If she Isn't a baldie sometimes. Those larvas are your extra-lives, If you fuck up as a Runner because you didn't slash a marine, you can spawn again as a Larva and evolve to your lost corpse.

[Casgair]

Those larvas are your extra-lives, If you fuck up as a Runner because you didn't slash a marine, you can spawn again as a Larva and evolve to your lost corpse.

I think we're just of different mindset here -- if your team is trying to kill everything that moves or trying to tacklespam a single marine back home in front of like 5 others, ultimately ramboing their ways to early deaths, you're going to have a hard time regardless of slash status. As a queen player I really haven't had any problems just having it on from 12:05 and forgetting about it pre-hugger combat removal. Post-hugger combat removal is an even more aggressive meta, so it just doesn't make sense to make it a thing, IMO.

As an aside though honestly I think you're going to lose more larvas to players "eating" (not regurgitating on time) npcs than slashing a couple marines.

[Renomaki]

Honestly, most queens leave slashing on regardless of the situation, because the moment slashing is turned off, the xenos start a flipping riot.

I do wish there was a better system in place for slashing restrictions.. Maybe make it more caste specific, rather than affecting every xeno in control. That way you can prevent certain castes from ramboing (such as drones).

[NescauComToddy]

So, you just said that slashing or not Isn't Important, right? Because every "team" does that, my dude, Unless you have a God team, then you are ready to go. As someone once said, The lie about a different team from the one you suggests Is pretty much god-like. Still, hardly possible.

About larvas getting destroyed by acid. They can't be compared to the ones you will find and make Mid-round. As you may know, Xenos starts with a number close to +5. When Marines arrive the planet, there will be +15 Xenos. Now, There won't be a high number of Defenseless monkies to reproduce, meaning that, You will have to get Marines to continue the game, and those aren't easy to capture as a Monkey. Also, As you may know again, There Is a lot of monkeys On the jungle, a lot. If one die, It won't make much difference for the larva-count. Now, If a captured marine dies, It Is salty, why? Cause' marines won't be captured easily, meaning you can't just replace Him.

You might not get this idea, but why would a Queen Meta the game by allowing slash because a "monkey jumped on the runner"? It Is pure meta-shit If you just allow at the beginning of a round, meaning you pretty much don't play right. Also, Hugger-combat Isn't something normal anywhere; You won't have that feature forever for obvious reasons. How Is removing hugger-combo more Meta? Please, give me the reasons why you Want the hugger-combo with Us, don't you think Is a bit retarded for a Xeno to run to a Marine and try to put something on his Face Just because he can't do anything without a little crab?

As I said, If you want to slash to be authorized so bad, Allow It, You are a Queen player, so Do It. If you are playing as a Normal-caste, Ask her. Suggestion Solved. This Is just a Weak type of idea that Works Indirectly every round, If you can't see It, you must be blind. Hugger-combat removal WILL come, If you or anyone have to need It, find a new way to Get those Marines like all the Others that Were carried by hugging In-combat are trying to. You will see how gameplay Is Improved In both sides without It. We know that Xenos still wins after the Hugger removal, meaning that your Slash problem Isn't an issue because It Isn't interfering with the current rounds.

Conclusion: This Suggestion Isn't necessary. Could be Implemented, but not necessary.

Still, It Is extremely helpful for the Community to have them, even If they aren't needed.

Before you use my argument against the Hugger idea, I should clarify that the same removal of that mechanic Will impact the rounds for Marines Immensely, It Is at the cloning nerf Lvl, but at the same time, the defib buff Lvl[Carriers heheh]. So, In the end, "Shit" Is Implicitly balanced.

[NescauComToddy]

Honestly, most queens leave slashing on regardless of the situation, because the moment slashing is turned off, the Xenos start a flipping riot.

I do wish there was a better system in place for slashing restrictions. Maybe make it more caste-specific, rather than affecting every xeno in control. That way you can prevent certain castes from ramboing (such as drones).

You pretty much Got It right. If the Queen doesn't leave It regardless, They are called baldies till' the last of the days.

About a better system, It would be pretty hard to make. But It Will always be good to give the Queen a better organizational Skill.

[Casgair]

So, you just said that slashing or not Isn't Important, right?

No, I said that it's possible for xenos that overextend in different ways regardless of slash status to get themselves killed and reduce your larva pool. To be honest from what I've observed there's way more YASD happening when runner/hunters are trying to infect rather than kill/incapacitate, because there's more risk involved. Further, It could just be the hours I play are mostly mid-lowpop, but it hasn't been until recently with the hugger combat removal that I've really seen the xeno side push beyond 30 strong.

From what I've seen even under slash on status, most players understand the mechanics and the idea of victory by numbers. Slashing to incapacitate makes sense because it allows you to thin the pack and actually make those captures, which is definitely not as easy now that there are 5x less potential eggs and usually at best 4 (realistically, 2-3) players that are really capable of mid-combat infection.

Slashing on at roundstart also makes sense game/lore wise because -somehow- the colonists/prisoners/ice scientists managed to wipe you all down to just larva. Survivors have awareness of xenos/huggers/bursting before you even have a Queen; likewise you should be aware that those weird tallhosts are a potential threat. And for the record, over the last 6 months or so I have yet to lose a round as roundstart Queen, so I must be doing okay in that regard.

[NescauComToddy]

No, I said that it's possible for Xenos that overextend in different ways regardless of slash status to get themselves killed and reduce your larva pool. To be honest from what I've observed there's way more YASD happening when runner/hunters are trying to infect rather than kill/incapacitate because there's more risk involved. Further, It could just be the hours I play is mostly mid-low pop, but it hasn't been until recently with the hugger combat removal that I've really seen the Xeno side push beyond 30 strong.

If they can overextend In different ways regardless of the slash status and still die, Then It Isn't the slashing status that needs to change, It Is the player. About that, I don't think so. I always see as an Observer/Marine a little runner trying to sneak behind Hydro In the attempts to slash a marine. A whole squad sees It and chase the little guy down, He dies and salt rains In the Hivemind, trying to discover how the fuck did Runner 737 died. I play mid/High, I never saw a runner trying to capture a marine When he Is alone with him, all that I saw Is how the runner bounce, "splash", tackle spam the marine to his death.

From what I've seen even under slash on status, most players understand the mechanics and the idea of victory by numbers. Slashing to incapacitate makes sense because it allows you to thin the pack and actually make those captures, which is definitely not as easy now that there are 5x less potential eggs and usually at best 4 (realistically, 2-3) players that are really capable of mid-combat infection.

From what I have seen under the slash status, Xenos just wants to kill a Marine, don't disguise things Up, You might have this objective In your mind, but the others don't. Slashing to crit Marines just so You don't have problems with them, Is a bit Meta too, yet, I can comprehend what you said. In the end, Your hive doesn't want to Incapacitate and capture, they just want to slash someone to death, and That's something you can't deny.

Slashing on at round start also makes sense game/lore wise because -somehow- the colonists/prisoners/ice scientists managed to wipe you all down to just larva. Survivors have awareness of Xenos/huggers/bursting before you even have a Queen; likewise, you should be aware that those weird tall hosts are a potential threat. And for the record, over the last 6 months or so I have yet to lose a round as round start Queen, so I must be doing okay in that regard.

Did you say Survivors are potentially strong and, can exterminate an entire Hive? No, It doesn't work that way. If you fear the ones who fear you, there Is something wrong there. Also, It would be even stranger to a Queen to be defeated Round-start, even the Lord of the baldies can't accomplish such feat. Survivors are pretty much defenseless, get 2 Xenos chasing one and You are gold unless your hive Is unrobust as hell. It doesn't make sense, you and I Know that It Is far from playing fair and right. How can they be a threat? Have they guns? You have a damn group of Xenomorphs, "the most freakin' killing machines In the universe", If you can't Infect/take the colonists without slashing, It Is your problem, not the mechanic's fault. No, what you just said doesn't make sense. Thankfully to the devs, the spawn as larva thing Is a Game mechanic that don't obey the lore, meaning that the first part of your argument, don't make sense too.

[Casgair]

Okay, so you've established:

• Queens will almost always turn on slashing upon request
• Slashing is ultimately not the problem for xeno deaths
• By the time that marines show up for real engagement (~12:35), slashing is on anyway.

The argument that NOT ALLOWED or RESTRICTED are even necessary aren't looking all that strong, here. Why not just streamline the gameplay and be done with Slash status?

[NescauComToddy]

Okay, so you've established:

• Queens will almost always turn on slashing upon request
• Slashing is ultimately not the problem for Xeno deaths
• By the time that Marines show up for real engagement (~12:35), slashing is on anyway.

The argument that NOT ALLOWED or RESTRICTED are even necessary aren't looking all that strong, here. Why not just streamline the gameplay and be done with Slash status?

Well, my Dude, If you See my established List and don't disagree with It, why Are you even making this Suggestion?

Eliminating the Not allowed or the Restricted status Can't and won't happen, It Still can Be used At End-mid and other situations where Xenos will need to gain Larva, and as we know, They will just slash everything In they way If we do not put Limits that can be Determined by the Lead caste, AkA, Queen. Meaning that this Queen skill will stay because we still have decent Queens In our community, that Will use, and abuse The Restrictions, even If a Bunch of baldies remains screaming on her for not allowing.

Different from the Hugger-Combat, that doesn't have any purposes for staying.

[forwardslashN]

I am going to make slashing enabled for the hugger removal. It will stay disabled as normal in the normal branch. Resolved.