Huggerless combat AFTER the test

[Renomaki]

The test is almost over folks... Soon hugger combat will become an option again, and all the previous adjustments to xenos will be reverted.

However, since xenos had a good week of practice without hugger combat, I assume that a lot of you have learned to fight without relying on huggers by now. I myself know that I'm going to continue fighting hugger free, because it is very, VERY satisfying to maul a man with only my xeno's abilities alone and not because I managed to hug-decap him.

How many of you think you are robust enough to fight without huggers once the test is over?

[apophis775]

Yeah, hugger combat will be back for a little bit, we'll make some adjustments and run another test in late Feb

[elantzb]

The test is almost over folks... Soon hugger combat will become an option again, and all the previous adjustments to xenos will be reverted.

However, since xenos had a good week of practice without hugger combat, I assume that a lot of you have learned to fight without relying on huggers by now. I myself know that I'm going to continue fighting hugger free, because it is very, VERY satisfying to maul a man with only my xeno's abilities alone and not because I managed to hug-decap him.

How many of you think you are robust enough to fight without huggers once the test is over?

If this was purely a psychology test, I don't think the effects will last. I.E. give the marines something similar and see if they try sticking to doing things "the hard way."

[Renomaki]

Yeah, hugger combat will be back for a little bit, we'll make some adjustments and run another test in late Feb

Another run late in the month? Most interesting.... I do look forward to seeing how it turns out.

[Karmac]

If this was purely a psychology test, I don't think the effects will last. I.E. give the marines something similar and see if they try sticking to doing things "the hard way."

What do you reckon would be "the hard way" for marines outside of not having specialists?

I'd like opinions on this, just to see what marine cheese people get annoyed at.

[Rob606]

I typically go crusher, so my previous tactics were rush in, stomp, cover others, rinse and repeat. Now and then if things were desperate I'd risk using huggers but it's not the most enjoyable experience.

The current state has changed this. Stomp is no longer AoE (although I love knockin rines down and breaking all their bones) so I have to just scare the rines to back up and hope I nab a straggler. With no huggers to fall back on to fill this void, I'm forced to rely on my robustness (as little as it may be) so it's definitely making me a better player.

Honestly, I like the shift overall. I'll miss it.

[Karmac]

I for one believe the Crusher change was unnecessary, it turned it into a big squishy AP magnet that can't hurt me anymore, keep it at arms distance, drop a mag into it and it'll go down easy, and I think people noticed it because I didn't see alot of Crushers.

[Rob606]

I for one believe the Crusher change was unnecessary, it turned it into a big squishy AP magnet that can't hurt me anymore, keep it at arms distance, drop a mag into it and it'll go down easy, and I think people noticed it because I didn't see alot of Crushers.

Honestly I do prefer the old Crusher. You were useful as the vanguard - charge in, stomp and get out of there, giving your xeno buddies a chance to do their thing very quickly. Now everyone dodges you pretty easily and you get squished unless you play a lot more hesitantly (counter-intuitive as a tank role).

[Renomaki]

I for one believe the Crusher change was unnecessary, it turned it into a big squishy AP magnet that can't hurt me anymore, keep it at arms distance, drop a mag into it and it'll go down easy, and I think people noticed it because I didn't see alot of Crushers.

To be honest, I kinda felt it was necessary.

Now people can't just spam crushers and get easy wins, you have to have caste diversity in order to survive. Back then, it was common to come across 3-4 crushers in a single hive, sometimes even more than that.. Ravagers? Not so much. Hell, even praes rarely get any love at all..

Crushers were mainly living shields for other xenos, designed to taunt and distract marines and soak bullets. They shouldn't be able to do the ravager's job of being a killing machine along with being a mini-queen with their old AOE attack. Now other T3s have some use.

[Rob606]

To be honest, I kinda felt it was necessary.

Now people can't just spam crushers and get easy wins, you have to have caste diversity in order to survive. Back then, it was common to come across 3-4 crushers in a single hive, sometimes even more than that.. Ravagers? Not so much. Hell, even praes rarely get any love at all..

Crushers were mainly living shields for other xenos, designed to taunt and distract marines and soak bullets. They shouldn't be able to do the ravager's job of being a killing machine along with being a mini-queen with their old AOE attack. Now other T3s have some use.

The issue is that Crushers aren't terribly satisfying to play now as there isn't as much pay off for being the huge target. I do enjoy knocking someone down snd smashing the shit out of them, but the cooldown on stomp is still pretty high so you can only do that to stragglers.

[Nightcaper]

My only regret was not getting in on this update. Sad to say I had other things going on these past few weeks so popping in-game wasn't really a priority. I look forward to the next testing though.

[Renomaki]

The issue is that Crushers aren't terribly satisfying to play now as there isn't as much pay off for being the huge target. I do enjoy knocking someone down snd smashing the shit out of them, but the cooldown on stomp is still pretty high so you can only do that to stragglers.

Sometimes being a xeno is all about opportunity.

I myself played a fair bit of combat sentinel, which isn't all that easy to do. You aren't as fast as a runner, not as strong as a hunter, and don't have the range of a spitter. If you want to survive, it is all about ambushes and picking your target.

But just because you aren't that strong doesn't mean you aren't good as an attacker. It just takes a lot more brains is all... If I can make marines scared of a sentinel, then you can make marines afraid of a crusher. It's all in the dome.

[Karmac]

The easiest way to sum it up is that Crushers are just Large Hams at the moment. And hopefully it'll go back to what it was after people notice the sheer decline in Crusher players. Unless this was just part of test week, because if it was, it didn't mention that on the changelog...

[Casgair]

I myself played a fair bit of combat sentinel, which isn't all that easy to do. You aren't as fast as a runner, not as strong as a hunter, and don't have the range of a spitter. If you want to survive, it is all about ambushes and picking your target.

But just because you aren't that strong doesn't mean you aren't good as an attacker.

Definitely, I've taken a hand off in one shot as Ancient Sentinel. Sure, you're not going to be able to drop anyone as fast as a Hunter, but they're hardly slackers.

[elantzb]

I miss Crushers being more ballsy. I rarely get to flame them anymore.

[elantzb]

What do you reckon would be "the hard way" for marines outside of not having specialists?

I'd like opinions on this, just to see what marine cheese people get annoyed at.

That's an excellent question, seeing as I rarely land a kill on a xeno. The recent test where huggers could not be removed to avoid infection was quite a blow.

[caleeb101]

Crushers are being played how they are supposed to in my opinion. It's interesting to see that once their stomp stun was removed and huggers became more rare but better, xeno players flocked to carriers. Crushers role is as a walking barricade. Just as boilers role is a long range artillery bomber. Yes, the crusher should be able to defend itself which it is FULLY capable of doing mind you. But it shouldn't be able to rush in, ragdoll that fool that didn't see ot coming to the other side of the room, stomp stun, deflect remaining bullets for the incoming queen and then let her scree to pick off the remaining standing people. Aliens meta should not be about stun. They have many weapons that stun, yes but they have many that don't.

[Karmac]

Crushers are being played how they are supposed to in my opinion. It's interesting to see that once their stomp stun was removed and huggers became more rare but better, xeno players flocked to carriers. Crushers role is as a walking barricade. Just as boilers role is a long range artillery bomber. Yes, the crusher should be able to defend itself which it is FULLY capable of doing mind you. But it shouldn't be able to rush in, ragdoll that fool that didn't see ot coming to the other side of the room, stomp stun, deflect remaining bullets for the incoming queen and then let her scree to pick off the remaining standing people. Aliens meta should not be about stun. They have many weapons that stun, yes but they have many that don't.

You've literally stated that the new crushers entire existance as a *T3 ALIEN* is to be shot at.

*golfclap

[caleeb101]

You've literally stated that the new crushers entire existance as a *T3 ALIEN* is to be shot at.

*golfclap

You're the one making it sound underwhelming. Crushers stopping marines from killing vital forces in the hive for example the boiler because it can deflect all the bullets or soak up damage is a pretty damn good power in it self. This also means that fire isn't focused on other aliens so they can work better since they aren't under the harassment of fire. On-top of that, marines waste round after round on the crusher and even though it may not seem like it, Ammo matters. ESPECIALLY if you're unloading 3 rounds into a crusher. No matter how competent RO are, you're still gonna run out of ammo due to cooldowns on sending stuff via the supply beacon system or the 3-4 minutes it takes to get ammo down on the rasputin. We all know stuff happens quick on Colonial marines. 3-4 minutes is plenty of time to lose the FOB or whatever you're defending. Stacking another thing on-top of THAT, they can smash into barricades and slowly wear down defences, without having to worry about health and stun now as-well. Four things 'being shot at' brings for the crusher. You could say the crusher almost thrives off of being shot at...

[KEY]

I've enjoyed huggerless combat. It's put more of a focus on being an rampaging monster and less focus on being an hugger dispenser regardless of class.

[Toroic]

You're the one making it sound underwhelming. Crushers stopping marines from killing vital forces in the hive for example the boiler because it can deflect all the bullets or soak up damage is a pretty damn good power in it self. This also means that fire isn't focused on other aliens so they can work better since they aren't under the harassment of fire. On-top of that, marines waste round after round on the crusher and even though it may not seem like it, Ammo matters. ESPECIALLY if you're unloading 3 rounds into a crusher. No matter how competent RO are, you're still gonna run out of ammo due to cooldowns on sending stuff via the supply beacon system or the 3-4 minutes it takes to get ammo down on the rasputin. We all know stuff happens quick on Colonial marines. 3-4 minutes is plenty of time to lose the FOB or whatever you're defending. Stacking another thing on-top of THAT, they can smash into barricades and slowly wear down defences, without having to worry about health and stun now as-well. Four things 'being shot at' brings for the crusher. You could say the crusher almost thrives off of being shot at...

With this post you've pretty much demonstrated you don't understand crusher strategy at all.

[Reuben Owen]

I tried playing the newer version of the Crusher. Due to how the armor works now it looks like all those hits that would previously be blocked actually hit now and make it seem like you're almost dead to a marine, when really you're almost at full. It makes them a bit more cocky when fighting you. Really Crushers can't approach groups of Marines now unless they have other xenos with them, or go in under the cover of a Boiler cloud. I spent most of the time standing in obvious lit up spots and waited for them to approach. When they did I'd tackle the closest and stomp over the body then run back while dragging them. Really disarm has to be used more than ever before on Crushers, they can barely touch a marine once as it is, if you just slash they'll be out of range after the first one. In times where I couldn't hold the marines off from going forward, I'd charge back and forth through them til they backed up, not really trying to hit them but make them not go any farther and if I did hit 1, I'd stomp on him for good measure. Note that when charging now you can't bonk if you hit something (like a turret!) which also applies now to all castes that would previously bonk.

[caleeb101]

With this post you've pretty much demonstrated you don't understand crusher strategy at all.

How do crushers play then? What is with these vague posts saying 'your point isn't valid' without any explanation whatsoever? If I'm wrong, correct me.

[Karmac]

How do crushers play then? What is with these vague posts saying 'your point isn't valid' without any explanation whatsoever? If I'm wrong, correct me.

From my understanding the Crusher was never meant to be played as a meatshield due to how underwhelming that is, and its ramming does less damage to an FOB than regular slashing, originally it was a very lethal creature that was able to backup it's threatening look with genuinely threatening abilities that players commonly created new strategies with, such as players like Boltersam preferring the Combat focused style of Crusher and Toroic preferring to be more of a guardian to other Xeno while still making himself an active threat to the marines, forcing them to put rounds on him. Except none of this works now due to the changes to armor, dragging, stomp and with an emphasis on smashing your face into an FOB without worrying about bonking new players will still fail to realise what the Crusher, was and what it no longer is.

[Toroic]

How do crushers play then? What is with these vague posts saying 'your point isn't valid' without any explanation whatsoever? If I'm wrong, correct me.

In my mind, crusher has a few basic roles.

1) Block for other xenos (mostly boiler, but also crit xenos)

2) Sweep for mines

3) Break the FOB with boiler support

4) Initiate fights for xenos.

Crusher has tackle, weak slashes, ramming, and stomp. There is no tail attack, and no pounce or charge.

With the loss of stomp, Crusher cannot do 4) and because of the generally limited mobility (Crusher, drone, hivelord are the only castes that don't have a ranged attack or a leap. Stomp is nearly useless offensively with the current iteration, because crushers are not durable enough to trade shotgun blasts with marines. Every other offensive, and every defensive caste has a way to start fights, crusher is quite slow off weeds, charge is easy to dodge, and stomp is limited to when you're standing on a marine, which means you need to cackle them first.

What crushers have discovered is that by eating a shortgun blast at the time they would normally be stomping, they take a ton of extra damage compared to before. Flamers also get a free shot vs them. Stomp is the core of what a crusher does, because the threat of it prevents marines from swarming. Now, there's no downside to that strategy.