No longer fun to play engineer

[OatzAndHoes]

Has anyone else no longer been having fun as engineer? I remember pre-egrill nerf when a team of good engineers could win the round for marines. There was a great variety of FOBs, arguments over best egrill placement, and an actual reason to defend engineering and get power up quickly. Ever since the egrill nerf there has been a steady stream of gradual nerfs where I no longer find myself having fun anymore. Ravs and hunters can now slash girders, engineers don't have access to engineering storage for extra materials, there is little incentive to get power up on LV or keep it going since most of the lights are going to get slashed anyways. I find my round as engineer now consists of setting up plastisteel barriers, turrets and mines for the first 5 minutes, and then begging command for more supplies while setting up r-tables that will be destroyed in the first minute of a real xeno assault anyways. It's gotten to the point where I rarely find myself playing eng anymore, even though that used to be my favourite role by far.

[Karmac]

I swapped out from Engineering to Medical after the access nerf due to supplies now being ridiculously hard to get, even though I was literally just playing the role for fun and not to actually win rounds and stuff, CM has managed to literally suck the fun out of making autism forts.

[TheMaskedMan2]

I don't know, I play engineer a ton and still have fun, especially if command and your SL are willing to actually send metal.

Though I would have to partially agree that perhaps engineers just need more varied types of fortifications to build.

[immaspaceninja]

Its kinda lame that devs are trying to make things more realistic by cutting engineering features from original SS13 without giving us any new mechanics in exchange.

[Nicboone]

Damn good engineer too when you get supplies karla. I sometimes enjoy engineer- but really only when i get supplies and have the other engies with me

[Karmac]

things you could do before the removal of engineering access: viewtopic.php?f=94&t=11217

[TheMaskedMan2]

Damn good engineer too when you get supplies karla. I sometimes enjoy engineer- but really only when i get supplies and have the other engies with me

Oh thanks, I just try to do what makes the most sense? Theres a few things I blank out on like some specific orders to dismantling walls or such.. also once when trying to refill my welder didn't turn it off, oops.

but yeah as an engineer I'm just thinking give them more things to build? Barbed wire? Improvised ditches? No idea how any of it would work but yeah. They just need a more varied arsenal that maybe doesn't only rely on metal. They are combat engineers, they should be able to improvise.

[apophis775]

Its kinda lame that devs are trying to make things more realistic by cutting engineering features from original SS13 without giving us any new mechanics in exchange.

We are working on it, but please remember this is a hobby for us, not a full time job. We don't get paid or make any money from CM, so sometimes it takes us time to figure out good mechanics to replace things with as it's not always our top priority, especially when we need to adjust balances. Also, remember that we are not trying to be "Original SS13" we are going for closer to the Ridley Scott Alien/Aliens universe, and that means we have to remove some things.


As far as not replacing, the entire point of the new barricades and sandbags, was to replace the Egrills and autism barricades of the past.



And, as far as the access nerf, the reason was that people were powergaming/metagaming and deploying with boatloads of metal at roundstart to build instead of do their job as a squad engineer. They'd land, and just start construction, without helping their squad sweep, and frequently ignored orders to move to other positions. Additionally, nabbing these resources was frequently a problem as many engineers would take 200 or 250 metal and promptly die horribly, resulting in ALL the spare metal for the marines being lost due to one fucknugget Engineer who wanted to powergame and never got his body recovered.

This was a semi-frequent complaint, which resulted in the changes to prevent engineers from taking all the reserve supplies so that a single engineer can not cripple defenses by playing like a retard. You can land, request metal, and have your SL drop a beacon to get more metal as needed, which also limits the aliens ability to destroy your reserve supplies.

[Karmac]

It sounds intelligent when you put it like that but for us autismo players following da rools makes it feel like it takes literal hours to put an FOB together that doesn't consist of just tables. gotta whine about it somewhere y'know.

[XenonDragneel]

I bet you never been a frontline ENGINEER... Like if you go to bridge and make a anti-acidbombardments area to fool with boilers and stuff then you'll have more stuff to do..

[OatzAndHoes]

I bet you never been a frontline ENGINEER... Like if you go to bridge and make a anti-acidbombardments area to fool with boilers and stuff then you'll have more stuff to do..

You're making assumptions. I fortify the frontline when my squad is ordered to the frontline(though anytime on lowpop most SLs and command will just order engineers to build a FOB). The issue is that now engineers rarely have the resources or the capability to turn the tide of battle, especially on LV, although they do have more importance on ice colony.

We are working on it, but please remember this is a hobby for us, not a full time job. We don't get paid or make any money from CM, so sometimes it takes us time to figure out good mechanics to replace things with as it's not always our top priority, especially when we need to adjust balances. Also, remember that we are not trying to be "Original SS13" we are going for closer to the Ridley Scott Alien/Aliens universe, and that means we have to remove some things.

As far as not replacing, the entire point of the new barricades and sandbags, was to replace the Egrills and autism barricades of the past.

And, as far as the access nerf, the reason was that people were powergaming/metagaming and deploying with boatloads of metal at roundstart to build instead of do their job as a squad engineer. They'd land, and just start construction, without helping their squad sweep, and frequently ignored orders to move to other positions. Additionally, nabbing these resources was frequently a problem as many engineers would take 200 or 250 metal and promptly die horribly, resulting in ALL the spare metal for the marines being lost due to one fucknugget Engineer who wanted to powergame and never got his body recovered.

This was a semi-frequent complaint, which resulted in the changes to prevent engineers from taking all the reserve supplies so that a single engineer can not cripple defenses by playing like a retard. You can land, request metal, and have your SL drop a beacon to get more metal as needed, which also limits the aliens ability to destroy your reserve supplies.

We don't have the ability as far as I know to build sandbags on LV, it seems to just be a WO thing.
As for the coding, no one is asking you guys to drop everything you do and put in new features. We realize it's time consuming and appreciate the work you guys do. My issue has been mostly with engineering specifically, in that this is the one aspect of the game where features are routinely removed without any replacement available. When cloning was removed medics were given increased defib times and the ability to see who was revivable, when one marine weapon gets nerfed another is usually buffed. This was not true when arguably one of the biggest changes to the playstyle of the server in the past year, the nerfing of egrills happened. Instead we got month after month of engineering abilities being removed or nerfed one after the other. Hell you guys don't even need to code in a new feature, I'd even be happy with a little more plastisteel being available to engineers at roundstart.

[Swagile]

50 instead of 30 plastisteel available in all combat engineer areas.

A small room for Engineers made that will contain a "public" autolathe only for Combat Engineers.

Problem solved, because you can now make your own metal instead of constantly begging incompetent RO's for help who think they have to spend points on metal, lazy RO's who do know how to get around this but don't, or hacking into Sulaco Engineering and either being brigged or PM'd by admins that your powergaming then being banned.

And yes, this will fix the original problem of someone fucking off with all the metal, because now ANY combat engineer can make metal via recycling pistols / SMG's that are quite abundant in marine prep.

[slc97]

We give engineers exactly as much metal as we plan to at the beginning of the round. They don't know what the threat is on the ground, so they don't need to be making a super fortress FOB. The idea is that they have enough supplies to make a basic FOB, and then they can get more supplies dropped in later in the round.

[Swagile]

We give engineers exactly as much metal as we plan to at the beginning of the round. They don't know what the threat is on the ground, so they don't need to be making a super fortress FOB. The idea is that they have enough supplies to make a basic FOB, and then they can get more supplies dropped in later in the round.

Everything you said is great and all until you get to the last part there.

This is what makes being an Engineer suck ass currently.

And with the prevalence of alien early rushes when they have the numbers and the guts to pull it off, and you have a recipe for disaster.

Engineers NEED to make Super FOB's almost every round during high pop because of the threat of a early rush that happens at least every other round or every three rounds, respectively.

Without a Super FOB early on, you get steamrolled and forced onto the Sulaco as the aliens are now killing everyone in LZ1 due to CQC and FF.

In low pop, its not that much of a problem (you get like 5-3 aliens at best, who would want to rush with those numbers lmao), but some rounds you have like 10-15 aliens round start due to high pop + the aliens that get larvae when they burst. And most of the time, marines deploy when xeno's have every single caste and Tier already evolved.

[Crab_Spider]

You're making assumptions. I fortify the frontline when my squad is ordered to the frontline(though anytime on lowpop most SLs and command will just order engineers to build a FOB). The issue is that now engineers rarely have the resources or the capability to turn the tide of battle, especially on LV, although they do have more importance on ice colony.


We don't have the ability as far as I know to build sandbags on LV, it seems to just be a WO thing.
As for the coding, no one is asking you guys to drop everything you do and put in new features. We realize it's time consuming and appreciate the work you guys do. My issue has been mostly with engineering specifically, in that this is the one aspect of the game where features are routinely removed without any replacement available. When cloning was removed medics were given increased defib times and the ability to see who was revivable, when one marine weapon gets nerfed another is usually buffed. This was not true when arguably one of the biggest changes to the playstyle of the server in the past year, the nerfing of egrills happened. Instead we got month after month of engineering abilities being removed or nerfed one after the other. Hell you guys don't even need to code in a new feature, I'd even be happy with a little more plastisteel being available to engineers at roundstart.

There's 30 sheets of plasteel in Squad Engineering Prep rooms

[OatzAndHoes]

We give engineers exactly as much metal as we plan to at the beginning of the round. They don't know what the threat is on the ground, so they don't need to be making a super fortress FOB. The idea is that they have enough supplies to make a basic FOB, and then they can get more supplies dropped in later in the round.

Oh come on, every time someone brings up lore as a reason for implementing a feature you guys bring up how game balance is more important. You can't turn around and use that same excuse that is always shot down to justify your own decisions. Besides in a lowpop game engineers need to be able to access engineering storage to even build a semblance of a FOB. Right now lowpop rounds usually start with enough plastisteel for 6 barriers, not even close to enough to build a proper FOB or LZ1 defenses. Communal engineering supplies ensured that lowpop rounds had enough to build a basic FOB without needing an MT or CE who are rarely there on roundstart in a lowpop game.

The way engineers are balanced right now I've been seeing a lot of good engineers switching roles or playing less because to be quite honest the role is no longer rewarding for someone who is good at it and puts in effort. There used to be a big difference between the great engineers and halfway decent ones, meaning that there was always room to improve and learn. Now the role is so shallow you can learn all there is to do, and set it up effectively after a couple rounds of trying.

[KingKire]

First off, i must say, this game is indeed a passion project, and i have no doubt that the Dev team has some cool ideas for engineers "in the works". We always gotta respect the fact that theres several hundered suggestions posted, and theres only so much time in the day anyone wants to give towards a hobby.(alot of them are good, and alot of them are at odds with each other). Things always gotta take a back seat to bigger things as they say.

As for metal, i think that engineers are indeed given enough metal at the start to do their basic job. The problem doesnt come from how much metal there is at the start for engineers, but on how difficult it is to get a good resupply chain going. Thats where i believe the real issue is, and there are already some good suggestions on how to possibly solve it.


I will say, that to me, i do find that the role of engineer has gotten weaker, which has made being a *Squad Engineer* class less fun to play.
My thoughts are as posted:

► Show Spoiler

Originally, Engineers were *the* shit. Aliens had alot less strength to chop up defenses of any type, which made engineers godly in preventing aliens from assulting in anything but a few focused areas. Flashlights were powerful, meaning setting up an autolathe and mass producing lights could have a single engineer change the tides of battle. Engineers could wire up some cheap and super powerful egrills that needed alot of acid time to take down. Engineers could also just keep building for at *least* an hour straight with a backpack filled with metal (possibly 2 or 3 bags if you were good at autolathing metal, which i was).

This made seiges quite crazy, as aliens *really* had to work hard at cracking an autist fort made by a few engineers. Was this fun? Yah, i loved trying to think of better ways to create some sick ass defenses. Sur was one of *the* best engineers around, slicing the nexus completely inside and out, setting walls 3 tiles thick all around. It was the ultimate turret defense game, and people who played engineer were the main men in it.
God forbid if aliens gave even a little time to marines who retreated to the Sulaco. It was Camp-aco for a reason. Engineers and techs would go crazy. Weld every door, seal every bulkhead, Electric grills and walls 6 tiles deep. If you were an autist CE, you would wire up the laser beams to the main ladders and set energy barriers to divide the ship in half. (Cargo and research would jump in as well, because fuck it, we got tools too, yo!)

This was SUPPPPER fun, but...thats not the whole theme of what colonial marines was trying to achieve (my opinion of course). I think the class was nerfed to really help the game as a whole move into a better state overall. Did it work? i think so. Games have been moving faster, aliens are now hands down super dangerous, and marines really do have very little chance of winning the battles.

I will say, that i do miss having such a strong impact on whether my team would win or lose. A good engineer was top down worth more than anything else on the field back then. They were the teams backbone. It was always fun playing engineer back then because *you* were the one that the whole team relied on if everything failed. If it all went to shit, which it did, it was YOUR wall that the team was backed up on.

As for making the class funner, theres a bunch of ideas on the table already, and anyone who has time should pitch in and put in some comments. My personal idea of where the class should go would be to give them more flexibility of choices again. The old engineering class had a big flaw in that all the power it had was very defensive. If an engineer didnt have 20 minutes to fortify something up, they were pretty worthless.

Some good ideas shared was
-making welding tools be more effective on the offensive, giving them reason to be with the squads.
-Making floodlight be worth repairing, so that way engineers can make the area they work around more favorable to the marines.
-Allowing the engineer to set up forward landing zones for the droppod, another good reason to have engineers at the front lines
-Make cameras be more deployable on the front line, so engineers can help out command with information
-Giving engineers more diverse deployable gear, so they have distinct and different choices they can make. (I personally like the razorwire and deployable spotlights)

[louisloftcraft]

I do miss the shooting over Grills part, That was an interesting way to buy some time while under siege.