Hugger Combat Removal Discussion

[TheMaskedMan2]

I figured we could use a discussion thread on the recent update. What people enjoy, what people dislike, and what people think needs adjusting a bit. My basic opinion so far is overall I enjoy it. I'll go more in detail later.

So, discuss.

[Swagile]

I was on when he announced it but I had to go to work, so I missed it.

Still think its a great update just because "no hugger combat"; even if they have to buff xenos more to compensate. Huggers are just a unfun mechanic, after all, for both sides.

[caleeb101]

The knockout is way too long in my opinion. A runner was dragging me back to the hive and it took about 1 minute and 30 seconds for me to bloody wake up. Plus, with carriers still being a thing, I didn't really get to experience it much before I was hugged.

[Kerek]

I like it, but carriers are too powerful.

[Biolock]

I missed it and I'm salty

[NoahKirchner]

I thought it was sort of bullshit at first, now I only think that it's an itty bit bullshit. It's essentially concentrated hugger combat now instead of wide hugger combat, and I personally prefer the "wide" hugger combat. That being said, hugger combat is unavoidable, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Steelpoint]

I've noticed this update has really made Combat Medics one of the most important roles, and it really lets you tell easily if a Medic is good or bad.

Since now we get a lot more injured and dying Marines, since they are being slashed not infected, we now see huge amounts of wounded.

Honestly at this point I think we may need three medics per squad and more med supplies for Medics.

E: Also the lack of doctors in rounds with few of them is now really noticeable. I think good Docs/Meds are going to be very well loved by the player base.

[Ping]

Huh, odd. I thought that the change would be in effect for the foreseeable future, didn't know that yesterday was just a test.

My opinions on it are a bit warped because I only play marine, but I do understand that xenos were having a pretty crap time in the past. I managed to get away from a lone crusher after 5 minutes of escaping his disarm spam. I couldn't imagine how crap it felt for the crusher.

I've so far played two rounds with the hugger combat removal. The first round, everyone went carriers and we got hugger spammed by the new huggers, and it was an absolute depressing nightmare. The fact that getting hit by the hugger ONCE basically dooms you to death by bursting was catastrophic.

The second round however, was much more enjoyable. It was more lowpop, and I noticed players testing out different aliens and whatnot, with only about one carrier in sight. It was a fucking great firefight and fob defense, entertaining all the way through even though the marines lost the FOB at the end of the day.

After only two rounds, I can't say for sure what my opinions are, because those two rounds are drastically different. That being said, the game play of medic is exactly the same, and I solely play medic. So I feel I'll learn to love the new update.

[Symbiosis]

As a Medic I suspect my loadout will change to a full first aid kit of stasis bags. The insta infection isn't a terrible thing as it makes Marines immune to huggers, for a while, at least.

It'll make survivors surviving invaluable. If they do, it'll give tactical knowledge to the command staff that'll enable them if they're competent to make proper decisions to protect their Marines.

[Ikmalmn]

One time on the first few hugger update rounds, they was fucking 3 simultaneous chest bursted Marines in the medbay. All dead though.

Also, my opinion in this is that it's a good update, I've never been hugged but I did got my helmet crack which I was told was a RNG based thing. Also, as long as people don't spam carriers alot, I think it's going to be a fun experience.

AND HOLY SHIT ARE RUNNERS FAST

[Simo94]

Petition to rename Runner to Sanic

[Casany]

I like it, my only complaint is that CARRIERS ARE OP AS SHIT WTF?

One competent carrier can take out a squad of 6 marines, I dunno if that's intended. They also count as t2s, which is also VERY Over Powered.

Also, crushers are weak. A competent crusher can still be good but crushers have been nerfed bad

[Simo94]

I like it, my only complaint is that CARRIERS ARE OP AS SHIT WTF?

One competent carrier can take out a squad of 6 marines, I dunno if that's intended. They also count as t2s, which is also VERY Over Powered.

Also, crushers are weak. A competent crusher can still be good but crushers have been nerfed bad

yeah I tried crusher, I did the tackle+stomp while on top combo, its ehhhh, they need to either increase the stomp damage greatly, or give crusher his stun back but lower it to 1tile only around the crusher maybe? idk

oh also the deflection removal affected Crusher too, they are squishier now

[Casany]

oh also the deflection removal affected Crusher too, they are squishier now

I thought that Crushers weren't affected by that nerf. I even saw pictures where they deflected. But what do I know

[Simo94]

I thought that Crushers weren't affected by that nerf. I even saw pictures where they deflected. But what do I know

they do deflect from the front but the occasional times where u do get hit in the front are more frequent now I find, also crusher used to deflect from the sides too before


idk maybe its just me......

[Renomaki]

Hugger combat forces aliens to be a lot more tactical now, it isn't as mindless as rushing up with huggers and dropping them like before. You need to have a plan if you are going to do some lasting damage on marines.

In the case of Marines, I think a lot of them might be a tad on the cocky side now that most aliens can't just toss huggers at em (well, besides one), which probably hurts them more than not. I managed to witness a round where the aliens managed to reach 40 members and steamrolled the marines in under an hour, it was horrifying. Marine players need to remember that just because most aliens don't have huggers now doesn't mean ramboing is more effective. Coordination is more important than ever.

I also agree that carriers need to be readjusted, because now that huggers bypass helmets, carriers are going to be a huge burden to deal with. Back then it wasn't a big deal if you could take the hugger off, but now every toss a hugger makes is most certainly going to kill a marine in the future, or at the very least take him out of action long enough for xenos to take ground. Maybe they should be made into a tier 3 xeno, with hivelord retaining their tier 2 status and linking the drone and carrier together from the middle.. But that is just me.

[Karmac]

Honestly the only differences I saw from the changelog between the first test and this one were:
- Xenos are faster
- Bullets are faster
- They actually warned you that helmets are literally useless

And it sounds like the same key problem occurred this time around, Carriers are too strong. They've got more than enough health to get away with making mistakes and if you've got one assaulting the FOB they have enough health to tank multiple turret bursts should you need someone to distract the sentry. Not to mention the above noted 'helmets are useless' business.

And in regards to the Crusher change, I believe forcing the crusher into being a battering ram and literally nothing else detracts from gameplay and makes it a less interesting T3 choice, because your gameplay would literally boil down to "stand infront of xeno that is important or run face first into that barricade till someone shoots you in the side and you die because armor is fair now".

[Steelpoint]

Crushers seem their best in tight corridors.

Their ability to ram through multiple Marines in a line is very devastating, and I witnessed firsthand how much damage it deals. Getting smashed in usually causes a minimum of two fractures and immobilizes you due to pain.

[Toroic]

This is a good example of how quickly misinformation can spread.

Carriers have taken up a T3 spot for a long time, and I would be extremely surprised if that changed.

Crushers are going to be terrible because their stomp was a critical part of their kit and am quite sure that no crusher players were consulted about the changes. Losing huggers hurts crushers quite a bit more than other offensive castes because they don't have a pounce/charge to get out after they engage marines in combat, and their weak armor from the sides and back leave them vulnerable to being swarmed.

I'll be testing the speed changes and their impact, but otherwise my feedback is the same as it was before: crushers without stomp are not tanks capable of protecting other xenos, they're an unagile unevenly armored offensive class with weak melee damage and the ability to break down walls and rock. Stomp let them initiate fights against marines, let them get away without being swarmed, and let them stall an advance with the threat of a stomp.

Carriers' value has gone up enormously with the hugger buffs, and crusher goes from balanced to praetorian tier with the removal of stomp. (The change to stomp even at a low cooldown isn't good, because if a marine is lying down in a way you can get on top of them, they're already dead). Stomp's stun allowed a lot of playmaking and ballsy moves to work for crushers, and now they're going to be only able to passively block for boilers. Actually trying to box with marines will just get them killed.

Crushers seem their best in tight corridors.

Their ability to ram through multiple Marines in a line is very devastating, and I witnessed firsthand how much damage it deals. Getting smashed in usually causes a minimum of two fractures and immobilizes you due to pain.

Unless crushers no longer lose their momentum when hitting a marine, something not listed in the changelog and contrary to their operation since they were introduced, ramming through multiple marines in a line isn't possible. They've been able to trample downed marines by charging over them for a long time, and doing so does about the same damage as ramming them at similar momentum.

[Steelpoint]

I've seen Crushers ram through three + Marines in a row, while I can't tell since I was a Marine to the side but it did not seem the Crusher lost much momentum.

The new Crusher stomp is more something I've seen Crushers do as they withdraw after knocking someone on their ass from their charge. As the stomp causes an extreme amount of further damage that all but ensures either a half hour trip to medbay or a ticket to needing a Defib.

[ZDashe]

Unless crushers no longer lose their momentum when hitting a marine, something not listed in the changelog and contrary to their operation since they were introduced, ramming through multiple marines in a line isn't possible.

This has changed. You maintain most of your momentum now when you ram a marine, so crushers are insane in a 1 tile wide corridor just barreling though a line of marines with ease, breaking their bones and making them regret life.

Stomp is great for breaking their bones too, so a ram + stomp takes that marine out of action instantly, turning him into a liability.

[caleeb101]

I saw a crusher kill at least 15 marines yesterday and it decapped 3 of the ones I saw. Praetorian tier is a lie, Toroic.

[TJ3003]

Ive found a few things to be prevlent with a few Xeno games, Carriers are obviously quite great now, something I've noticed that if a queen is properly supporting them there the best Xeno on the board, but keeping in mind that eggs are 500 Plasma now, a Queen that both insiates in combat and lacks a battery, will result in carriers suffering allot when it comes to how many huggies he can throw recklessly..

Crushers, ive found to be a very odd change, getting rid of their stun changes how Marines attack drastically, the Aliens now rely on the queen heavily to head assaults due to her stun, in open combat really none can insiate combat save for boilers, which personally I feel is fine. The stomp does enough damege on a person that it cripples them, and within the Ship crushers well, crush Marines. They are now CQC experts, becoming reliant on their charge has made them difficult to play on the open sections of Big Red, generally resulting in ALLOT of misses with a charge then many hits, but when you do hit it is DEVASTATING(I even decapped a marine with a full momentum charge) I feel that if crushers could carry momtem to 1 tile over to surprise dodging marines might be a neat change..But ill leave that for a suggestion.

Runners & Hunters, now they both follow a very odd in these new changes, and rely on allot of pack work, which is fine. Their speed now actually allows them to dodge bullets which is very fun to do to a budding group of marines spraying at you..Runners are now definitely hit and run, they pounce, hit, run. Runners, their pounce is very forgiving now even if they hit a marine, but for hunters it would seem that their pounce stays the same in terms of stun time, both runners and hunters now have a harder time of catching hosts, it is very hard for a runner or hunter even in packs to drag marines away after a successful tackle without being punished with a hail of gunfire(This is generally due to the large speed debuff said hunter gains)

[Symbiosis]

I played two rounds last night. We lost the first one faster than I've seen a round lost before. It was a slaughter. We had more dead/delimbed marines than ever before. We went through medical supplies very fast, and the FOB was literally a plaything for Runners. (One ran through our defenses early on and Merced Tcomms APC)

Second round we won, but I think it was due to the Xenos just murdering Marines rather than trying to find hosts. It was a long round, and we were forced to have two Doctors planetside to deal with the wounded.

I will say, even if we had lost the 2nd round it was very fun not constantly having Huggers dropped on top of you. If Xenos eventually need a "ninja buff" on extra monkeys floating around, so be it! The only potential combat issue I see is all the delimbing putting medical in a REALLY rough spot. May need to consider one of those Whiskey Outpost magic healing pods if medbay becomes super backed up and they're not able to keep up. (It's no fun waiting in medbay for an hour!)

[Steelpoint]

Lack of Doctors, dead Doctors or incompetent Doctors is a major Marine issue I've noticed.

In one round the situation got so bad we had so many Marines simply having to patch themselves with bandages and waddle off half dead back to the frontline due to the Doctors all being KIA or MIA. I even saw some people suffering from literal wound infection that could not be treated.