T3 Explosion Resistant Discussion

[Evan Stelf]

Recently the staff have updated the game that aliens that are "bigger" which probably means T3 aliens, do not get stunned by any sort of explosions anymore. I've seen a lot of hate toward it and a lot of praise toward it so I thought I might as well host a forum discussion about what people would like to say about it and whether they feel like it should be removed or kept. Post below what you think about the new changes toward explosion stuns for aliens.

In note:

This probably will affect underslug grenades, SADAR, mines, heavy demolitionist, frag grenades, and probably other things that I can't think of.

The amount of damage that each explosion is probably the same, just doesn't stun

[Gentlefood]

While I'd love to see stuns removed from the game there is nothing in place to replace it currently. And removing stuns for just one side in a heavily stun based game is hilariously poor balancing. So much so that I don't even really have words for it and I'm just genuinely curious as to who exactly thought it'd be a good idea and why.

That's not even counting that with the new pheromones xenos on LV will go from T3 Mature to T3 Elite and T2 Elite to T2 Ancient before the fog even lifts so...

[immaspaceninja]

Lets just remove this update and pretend it never existed

[Challenger]

A quote I saw in looc perfectly summarizes why I'm pretty dismissive to criticisms of T3 xenos being stun resistant:

"Grenades used to be the only way to solo a T3"

... this game isn't about soloing T3s. Hopefully we get marine QOL changes to make it easier for them to develop and carry out tactics that kill T3s, but yeah.

[KeyWii]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSCiMbMVDLI

This has to be a dream, I can't fathom how something like this goes through

[Feweh]

I can taste the salt already

[Gentlefood]

A quote I saw in looc perfectly summarizes why I'm pretty dismissive to criticisms of T3 xenos being stun resistant:

"Grenades used to be the only way to solo a T3"

... this game isn't about soloing T3s. Hopefully we get marine QOL changes to make it easier for them to develop and carry out tactics that kill T3s, but yeah.

Explosions(stuns) are the only way to kill a T3 at all outside of them playing badly. Xenos have more get out of jail free cards(charges, disarm stun, pounces, thermal vision, etc) than anything else on the server. That's not even counting LoS issues and FF due to 2D space. Since we can't aim above a marine to shoot something that's apparently 15ft tall.

Edit: In regards to Feweh. Do you even really care what goes into the updates or do you just like stirring the pot? At this point I can't even really tell what your opinions on things are outside of you like stirring shit.

[Ikmalmn]

With how fast of a response this discussion got in a mere 20 minutes....this is going to be very salty.

Well for one thing, I haven't played or have a feel on the new update just yet. So I can't make any genuine opinions to this.

This update features a heavy "xeno buff" that I'm going to be very interested on how it is played out...more upraded xeno, more higher tier aliens, making T3 already even scarier as such.

However, this update is great for actually making the hivelord viable after being in the ditch of a useless expensive waste of T3 slot cunt ass caste. So aliens now have to invest in their firepower for more sustain.

[Challenger]

Explosions(stuns) are the only way to kill a T3 at all outside of them playing badly. Xenos have more get out of jail free cards(charges, disarm stun, pounces, thermal vision, etc) than anything else on the server. That's not even counting LoS issues and FF due to 2D space. Since we can't aim above a marine to shoot something that's apparently 15ft tall.

Literally just shoot it lmao

[Jroinc1]

Edit: In regards to Feweh. Do you even really care what goes into the updates or do you just like stirring the pot? At this point I can't even really tell what your opinions on things are outside of you like stirring shit.

All feweh does is stir shit, it's his job.

As for the update, I'm seeing it in the light of other updates. And honestly, it's pretty bad. You used to be able to run 4 SADAR deployments where one of them could hit something and the surrounding standards could swarm it...

Now I'm seeing one-SADAR drops, where IF you hit something, it'll walk it off and heal. That's entirely discounting the GL, which is still so bad as to be non-existent... yeah. Another gift from staff.

[Gentlefood]

Literally just shoot it lmao

Well lets look at 'just shoot it' from a mechanics standpoint.

Xenos effectively have three layers of health that improve overtime.

Armor (Deflection Chance)
Dodge (Miss Chance)
Health (Their actual HP)

So the first can be somewhat mitigated with special rounds/ammo. Alright then lets go to the second. Now while you can make your GUN more accurate you can't make a xeno less dodgy. So no real counter here. And the final stat which increases with the other two over time as they age up, health. Which seems to be given buffs from time to time as evidenced by how tanky crushers were prior to the most recent change.

Lets also look at some of the options xenos have to evade interaction entirely.

Charges/Pouncing (Lets xenos move really far away quickly)
Base movement speed higher than marines
Caste Specific Options to move away (Crusher momentum, Queen Screech/Eggs, Drone/Hivelord/Praetorian/Queen Frenzy Pheromones, Hivelord Resin Walker, etc. etc)
Weed Slowdown (For marines)
Sticky Resin (for marines)
Thermal Vision + NVG (Meaning they can avoid combat entirely by just moving out of vision range and knowing the map okay-ish)
Immunity to all Stuns (nothing will keep them from moving)

Lets take a look at marines then;

Marine Weapons: Single Shot or Burst fire have a chance to just not shoot where you aim it. I don't know the actual numbers but lets say its 1/4 shots for a base weapon to go off target.
Marine Numbers: These are both an advantage AND a disadvantage. Unlike xenos marines CAN FF and with very deadly consequences or at the very least take a marine out of the fight. While it does help in terms of giving marines more numbers to look around and fight with; There is the limitation of simply the number of possible mobs on the screen who all have a clear LoS to a xeno in question.
Marines Natural Defensive Nature: Marines are currently designed to be defensive, so they have some decent defensive options: Plasteel, Sentry, MG, etc. But these options are all immobile, so the xeno can simply ignore it or walk away if needed. Not to mention they can interfere with hunting down a wounded xeno as it takes time to move around or over them.

I'm sure there's quite a bit more I could say but at this point I don't even know why I'm bothering since your response to my comment was "lol just shoot it".

[Challenger]

So just shoot it some more.

[Renomaki]

Well, uh.. On the bright side, aliens still get blinded by explosions, so there is that at least.

Plus most other aliens still get stunned by kabooms, so grenades and rockets aren't completely worthless. It's just you can't get a lucky grenade on a queen and kill them sanic-fast anymore.

But yeah, it is sad that we can't just aliens with kabooms anymore, but at least now ravagers will be more viable and queens will be more daring.

... Just trying to find the bright side of things...

[Gentlefood]

So just shoot it some more.

Thank you for contributing much to this discussion and your amazing analysis of how the game works. You have truly opened my eyes as I had just been playing the video game incorrectly. Thank god I didn't let things get in the way such as 'facts' or 'balance' to warp my viewpoint. Or god forbid I try to have fun in a game.

[Wolf_Dood]

They will start caring when people stop playing.

[Challenger]

Close the door behind you on the way out, glad all the people who really need to win are leaving.

[Feweh]

They will start caring when people stop playing.

lol

[Gentlefood]

Close the door behind you on the way out, glad all the people who really need to win are leaving.

You really are on a one track mind aren't you? Who even are you anyways? How long have you been around? Because I sure as hell have never seen you before this thread.

This isn't about winning, its about making the game playable and fun. But until you can stop jerking yourself off over that one track thought I don't think we have anything more to discuss.

[DrPng]

I think the whole may point is for xenos to be stronger in almost everyway. Maybe the marines will have to use more tactics rather than going berserk, guns blazing and hoping it repeals the xenomorphs. I think strategy is a large component to proper balancing.

[Renomaki]

They will start caring when people stop playing.

Ironicly, considering the massive population lately, I think they'd LIKE the population to die down a bit, get back to under 100 again.

Because 130 players every day is hard on the poor server.

[Telegnats]

I think the whole may point is for xenos to be stronger in almost everyway. Maybe the marines will have to use more tactics rather than going berserk, guns blazing and hoping it repeals the xenomorphs. I think strategy is a large component to proper balancing.

You're literally asking for squad based tactics and organization in a 2d Spacemans atmospherics simulator.

[Wolf_Dood]

Ironicly, considering the massive population lately, I think they'd LIKE the population to die down a bit, get back to under 100 again.

Because 130 players every day is hard on the poor server.

Hah, yeah, agreed. If they really want to buff something it should be the lag from the potato server.

[TheDonkified]

Yep, this update is pretty bad. The evolution pheromones promotes xenos hiding in hive until they are T3 or a major upgrade level. Warding pheromones seem to provide insane amounts of protection, based on what I've heard in OOC. A crusher + warding pheromones could feasibly be impossible to kill. The explosion update is just...

A scenario that I see being problematic is one push by a queen completely wiping out a squad because A. queen can't be stunned by explosions and B. warding pheromones. She'll just screech without any significant risk, and then RIP that squad due to xenos just swarming. This wouldn't be a problem if marines had a chance to escape or deter the queen from screeching like they did before, but now, it seems to be a situation where you have to pray that there is no queen nearby or else you'll be absolutely steamrolled without any serious way to really react.

[Casany]

Guys, I really think that the devs don't really care much about what we say in this thread. I mean, they haven't taken notice yet.

They might care and it might be reverted, but updates are rarely changed. It's usually just another buff or nerf in place

[Crab_Spider]

Hm... does this mean I'll be a God as a Prae?