Arresting Marines For Having SMG AP Ammo

[Steelpoint]

I wish to discuss the in game legal application of marines acquiring access to SMG Armor Piercing magazines via a engineer hacking a Marine Vending Machine.

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What spurred this thread was a recent round where a SADAR Specialist was arrested by the MPs for having gotten a Engineer to hack the Marine Prep Room Vendors to distribute SMG AP ammo and then taking the SMG AP ammo for their sidearm.

According to marine law, and I quote, " To retain possession of, distribute, or use contraband items, including drugs and non-standard issued equipment" breaks the law. Technically the SMG AP magazines are contraband since they are non-standard and can only be acquired via hacking a Vending Machine.

After the round ended we had a lot of heated debates in OOC chat about MPs arresting Marines for having non-standard items like this.


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What I want to discuss are the implications of having MPs be able to arrest Marines for having access to AP SMG magazines, especially when marines have access to M41A AP Magazines, or HE/AP/WP SADAR rockets, Sniper rounds or flamethrowers, yet having a AP SMG magazine is illegal.

I want to propose that having access to AP SMG Magazines be considered legal under Marine Law, but I simply want to present this issue for discussion.

Thank you.

[Melonmancer]

Well unless there's a lore-reason for the equipment to be considered contraband (or even be IN the vendor) in the first place I don't think owning it should be against protocol.

[Daman453]

Look at suggestions, i already want this changed so something like this doesn't happen, but if they don't change it, then it is contraband.

[Steelpoint]

I think if the magazine is considered contraband then it should be removed from the vendor, I find it illogical that a vending machine would be stocked with illegal or contraband items that could end up in marine hands.

Since there is no system to authorise anyone to access the AP SMG magazines, there is no reason for it to stock them if it is illegal.

[misto]

sounds dumb as shit. who's stocking these vendors that they get to put contraband in them and hide it in a secret menu. why aren't the MPs laying siege to the prep rooms and confiscating every vending machine they see at the start of every round. stupid

[Rhicora]

I like that there are things that are IC illegal (but obtainable). The outcry over this indicates that they do give an edge, at the risk of being arrested. As intended.

[Steelpoint]

People were more complaining about the MPs arresting the sole SADAR Specialist for having AP rounds for their SMG, and the criticism of comparing marines access to deadlier ordnance yet arresting for SMG AP rounds. The discussion then went into everyone showcasing their dislike for MP's in general, myself included.

SMGs are notorious for being underwhelming and the few people who 'need' to take a SMG oft say to take AP rounds to make the SMG actually viable as a weapon. Hence why this may be a issue if more MP's pick up on the idea of arresting Marines for access to AP ammo.

Also to be fair, the Specialist was apparently arrested because the Engineer informed the MP's of him hacking the vendor to give the Spec AP ammo.

[Daman453]

I like that there are things that are IC illegal (but obtainable). The outcry over this indicates that they do give an edge, at the risk of being arrested. As intended.

No, they don't. AP pens aliens more but does a little less damage. That's what i'm to believe, AP=more damage is false, it just hits into crushers more. And it isn't a outcry more so because you can have a SADAR that can blow everything up, that's fine sir but DAMN DID I SEE SMG AP MAGS? FUCK ME MAN! NO WAY NO WAY ARREST KILL!!!

[Steelpoint]

Off topic but I believe that AP rounds now work by negating some of the inherent armour all Aliens have by default.

I don't know the numbers (and if I did I would not disclose) but higher ranking Aliens, terms of Tier and Upgrade (Young v Elite) can have more armour depending on their role. This armour would decrease damage from a weapon by a set percentage. AP works by negating some of the armour a Alien has. I imagine that makes AP rounds slightly more effective on higher ranked Aliens with more armor, but far less effective on lower ranked aliens or ones with little armor.

[Telegnats]

If there were ever an example of "Scraping the barrel for reasons to arrest", then this would be it.

[Szunti]

Didn't know it's contraband. More like the vendors are a bad construction and can't hold enough items without some hacky modifications. I hope the spec didn't tell the name of engineer.

No, they don't. AP pens aliens more but does a little less damage. That's what i'm to believe, AP=more damage is false, it just hits into crushers more.

Sadly normal ammo is weaker than AP except for young T1s. Even elite T1s are damaged much more from AP. I don't know how warding pheromones work, maybe it makes AP better for even the young ones. Not if it would matter though, noone really prepares for young T1s. They are weak and can't do much harm, you should have a magazine loaded for the tougher girls.

I don't think normal vs AP ammo is balanced at all.

[Symbiosis]

A quick way to get this addressed is to have the MP's confiscate every terminal due to them having contraband. Only release weapons/ammo from the RO/Supply requests. The resulting chaos from the MP's following Marine Law and deployment happening at 13:30 would be earth shattering.

[Swagile]

Terminals cannot be moved or deconstructed, hence it is impossible.

One could only hope.

[kroack]

Mature and Elite T3s can practically ignore SMG bullets, AP or otherwise.

[Fritigern]

This whole situation was hilarious to me. It made me realize just how useless MPs are on the server, given how far removed they are from meaningful gameplay. They exist solely to fuck with other players, and in doing so it keeps them from shooting themselves in the head out of boredom during the middle of every round.

[Terminutter]

A quick way to get this addressed is to have the MP's confiscate every terminal due to them having contraband. Only release weapons/ammo from the RO/Supply requests. The resulting chaos from the MP's following Marine Law and deployment happening at 13:30 would be earth shattering.

What about the requisition forms, signed by SL, SO and the individual requesting, copied, stamped by the RO, and then finally dispensed by a CT?

[misto]

implement actual traitors aboard ship during regular rounds so mps have a purpose

[Mook476]

SMG Ammo should be open to marines in the first place it shouldn't be illegal since it's coming from the vendor that directly supplies marines. I think it's pretty dumb, and costs the marines when a spec, smartgunner, etc gets locked up for trying to grab AP ammo it weakens the marine. I would assume atleast SMG AP ammo would be open to marines, and by making them legal it would just speed things up either way marines will get their SMG AP ammo.

[ExGame]

MPs should be dictated to use their common sense and actually help the mission.
At this point you can't be surprised when MPs always get shat on by Marines at every possible opportunity if things like this happen, as someome already said "scraping the barrel just to arrsst someone", it feels like MPs aren't even part of the crew but rather that third party on the ship you don't really want and always have to look after so they don't fuck up anything.

The constant buffing of MPs amplifies this, with the recent addition of a CMP. The MP just get more independent from everyone, as far as going against Command Staff. MPs shown themselves round after roumd that they can't be trusted with any wiggle room as they'll just abuse it, you have to dictate them every word, sad.

[Tidomann]

This is bullshit. It's people taking an ambiguous law and bending it to be a dick, or prove a point.

The fact that this exists in orders of armour piercing ammo, and surplus ammo, similarly to m41a ap ammunition shouldn't distinguish seperately as contraband. Are you going to arrest RO for ordering these crates?

In fact, in the wiki it's listed under standard marine equipment.

wiki/Marine_Equipment#Submachine_Gun_Ammo

I really hope people aren't this asinine when interpreting marine law. Wiggle room should exist. It's a shame that people can't handle that miniscule responsibility and need it spelt out for them.

[Nick123q23]

You can arrest people for hacking vending machines because they might fuck up and accidently shock everyone who uses it.

But if you arrest people for having AP SMG ammo when you can also have AP PULSE RIFLE ammo, then you're a shitler who doesn't understand the meaning of restraint when it comes to marine law.