Orbitals vs Airstrikes

[Renomaki]

Lately, I been noticing something that is quite sad really...

You all remember orbitals, right? Little beacons that you can plop down to lay down some heavy artillery on a target location, which when used right can turn the tide of a battle in your favor, or at least scare off the xenos and buy more time to get reinforcements. A lot of people in my experience tended to just treat them like glorified grenades, not realizing their full potential when used more tactically instead of tossed in without any pre-planning. I myself had many memories of a well placed OB causing all kinds of panic in the ranks of the xenos, and one fond memory of a game on ICE that resulted in a major due to an OB halting a sudden xeno rush at engineering... Man, made me feel like a hero...

...Then CAS, or airstrikes, were added into the game.

Back then, despite their firepower, a lot of people (myself included I admit) tended to forget about using OBs at times. This was mostly due to most NCOs preferring to rush in and shoot guns rather than flex their strategic muscles. But then airstrikes came in, and suddenly those binoculars a large number of NCOs often ignored because of a lack of interest in tactics suddenly became useful to them. I don't go a round without at least one NCO constantly screaming for airstrikes 24/7, even if he has no xenos in sight. They just wanna keep dropping bombs constantly despite how often xenos tend to avoid said bombs. Sometimes it would get to the point where they end up neglecting everything else just to lay down the kabooms.

On the one hand, it gave NCOs more power and importance on the field, but on the other hand, the creation of CAS has resulted in people not even giving a shit about OBs anymore. They are still used, trust me.. Just more rarely now, which is a shame because they still have quite a few advantages over airstrikes:

The ups of Orbitals:
1: Able to be deployed both out in the open and inside most buildings, allowing for almost any area to get shelled
2: offsets can allow you to do a number of things to mess with xenos, from hiding the beacon behind a wall and firing over it, to tricking the xenos into thinking it'll fire to one offset, only to have them rush into the very shells they were trying to avoid
3: Once placed, you can have your overwatch fire it anytime you want, allowing you more control over when to let it rain, as well as to make adjustment to offsets as needed

Of course, it isn't without its downsides:
1: Once placed, there is no moving it, meaning that if you put it in a bad spot, you are either going to have to improvise or just accept that you have what amounts to a wasted OB.
2: Firing an OB REQUIRES someone to be running your overwatch. Depending on the person in question, you either have your OBs fire on time, fire too late, fire on the wrong offset, or even just not fire at all.
3: Most NCOs only get 1 OB, but should you get lucky and find another one, it'll still take 20-40 minutes before another OB can be fired.
4: An OB has to be tossed or placed by hand, making it's deployment range shorter and thus endangering NCOs in more hectic situations.

In the case of CAS, however:
1: Airstrikes can be marked with binoculars, keeping NCOs out of harm's way and allowing them to lay down the pain anywhere they have LoS of.
2: Airstrikes have a great deal of variety over OBs, who always fire the same 3 HE shells. With Airstikes, you can unleash a flurry of bullets, drop napalm, fire a swarm of mini-missles, etc. Keeps the xenos on their toes.
3: You can deploy airstrikes as quickly as a PO can rearm and refuel. The faster they can prepare, the more often you can call in for airstrikes.

But even CAS has issues that people won't admit to:
1: The laser tends to cause xenos to flee from it just as easily as an orbital beacon. While it may be useful for messing with xenos, it also means getting bombs to HIT is harder. You can't use offsets to drop bombs, you HAVE to have the beam directly where you want the bombs to land, and xenos know this.
2: You can't communicate with the PO as he is doing an airstrike, only before and after. This means that it all based on luck if that airstrike manages to deal some decent damage or not. More worrying if a PO is quick to drop his entire payload on nothing, wasting limited supplies.
3: If there is no one to even FLY CAS, then you are shit out of luck if you need airstrikes. While an OB can be fired by pretty much anyone with access to overwatch, airstrikes can only be done by trained pilots. And if none are available, then you are paddling up shit creek without a paddle.
4: CAS is much more limited than OBs, only being able to fire in outdoor areas. This means that getting airstrikes on maps where most combat is either underground or inside buildings is going to be hard and rare.

Which brings me to the main topic of discussion... What do you prefer, and WHY?

As much as I like airstrikes, I prefer the old OB more, if only because I have more control over it and it a more skill-based weapon than a luck-based weapon. With forward planning, it can do a number on xenos, at the very least spooking them hard when they get hit and barely survive the orbital, buying marines much needed time to regroup and slowing the swarm down.

Airstrikes, meanwhile, I feel are only useful on LV due to the vast, open nature of it. Anywhere else and it just feels pointless to try and bother.

[Pat Sajak]

You know, I think people might be using CAS a lot more often then OB is probably the fact it is new. I like how CAS gives pilots another job apart from purely transportation. I really don't like one over the other if it manages to get the job done. I also really like that we still have OB after CAS was put in, so we have more firepower to work with then before.

[Chuckachu]

Now that SO's have cams on each helmet having one on the OB would be like the CAS pilot getting the laser detector. That way you could have a stealth spec set one up at a choke point and the SO get to dial its offset to be just right and wait for the optimum moment to strike.

My only problem with the CAS now is how quickly you can fail as by the time the camera notes the laser existing tends to be a to late to get anything under the CAS's AoE so folks still just spam and hope for the best.

[lcass123]

CAS honestly needs a rework as its very rare to ever get a single hit and even then its usually completely ineffective. The removal of the initial laser would really fix a lot of issues and instead make the green laser flash when munitions have launched (long enough for any smart xeno to get out of the way + a bit)

[Casany]

I sometimes will just put a CAS beacon in a choke point just to force the xenos to either brave it or retreat.

Honestly, I mainly use OBs to cover a retreat or defense. They rarely work on the offensive since it's to unpredictable whether or no marines will advance or fall back.

I had a round where two beacons were placed in hydro during an assault right as the xenos retreated, and everyone thought they were wasted until a smart marine covered them up and the xenos advanced and took over hydro. Then both beacons were launched and it caused devastation on the xenos causing a retreat.

Another time the xenos were attempting to flank hydro via the bridge where no one was covering, so as a delta spec I called in CAS on the main xenos force forcing them to fall back from the flank attempt and the marines were able to build some defenses and halt the xeno offensive.

They both have their uses, but CAS is mainly used to keep xenos away while a hidden OB can kill them outright on defense

[TheGreatPazuzu]

How does CAS actually work? I played my first game in about a year yesterday and got Squad Leader because I didn't change my preferences. Still did pretty well although I couldn't remember how to turn on my light which was embarrassing. But when I was using CAS I would radio the PO, he'd launch and then I would just keep my laser on something for like 1 minute. At that point the now empty space would get hit, and maybe it'd take down an annoying resin wall or something.

So how does it work? Does it take a minute just for the dropship to get into position to be able to fire? Can I lase multiple targets if the PO doesn't use up all his ammo on the first run through? Also can you not target weeds with the binoculars? I had several boilers within range that I was trying to lase but I couldn't get it to work, just a message that I think said you need to target grass or sand. I don't understand why that's a feature if it's true. As long as the target is in the open why does it matter what material I'm targeting.

But I love the new features nonetheless. The new ship and fog details are great.

[Pat Sajak]

I sometimes will just put a CAS beacon in a choke point just to force the xenos to either brave it or retreat.

That is a pretty neat idea you got there! I never had a chance to use CAS myself yet since I am mostly in the command room.

[Renomaki]

How does CAS actually work? I played my first game in about a year yesterday and got Squad Leader because I didn't change my preferences. Still did pretty well although I couldn't remember how to turn on my light which was embarrassing. But when I was using CAS I would radio the PO, he'd launch and then I would just keep my laser on something for like 1 minute. At that point the now empty space would get hit, and maybe it'd take down an annoying resin wall or something.

So how does it work? Does it take a minute just for the dropship to get into position to be able to fire? Can I lase multiple targets if the PO doesn't use up all his ammo on the first run through? Also can you not target weeds with the binoculars? I had several boilers within range that I was trying to lase but I couldn't get it to work, just a message that I think said you need to target grass or sand. I don't understand why that's a feature if it's true. As long as the target is in the open why does it matter what material I'm targeting.

But I love the new features nonetheless. The new ship and fog details are great.

The thing about CAS is that the PO can't do anything until he enters proper flight. Then he can start shootin, but even then it still takes a few seconds to select a weapon and fire.

A lot of NCOs tend to lase first and ask for airstrike later, rather than ask for airstrike and then lase shortly afterwards in an area of interest. Even then, you can only last on dirt and grass. Weeds tend to cover turf up, which makes it harder to tell which is dirt and which it metal tile that, despite not having a roof over them, still deny airstrikes.

Maps like LV are the best for it, but maps like ICE (where combat is mostly underground and there is a lot of airstrike unfriendly tiles) and BIG RED (where there is a lot of indoor combat) tend to struggle due to how there is more turf that denies airstrikes than allows it.

And moreso, get used to airstrikes missing. Like an OB, sometimes the best you can do is suppress, the Gatling guns and bombs that sprinkle the area making it difficult for xenos to travel as freely. Still worth trying to hit xenos with it though.. Just takes some effort and thought.

[Recounted]

making the laser pointer show up when the PO's lock on to it will probably be a better approach to counter meta knowledge of the CAS. On the OB's though, they could have a bit recharge reduction by mt's or whatever the devs choose or make the explosive radius bigger

[Hulkamania]

I agree that I've very rarely seen CAS actually cause any real significant damage. Playing as a xeno amounts to "Oh wow a red dot, going to move away from that." You literally never get hit by the things. True the PO coordination with the SL matters, you can close the window up with a little efficiency, but with four SL's all asking for airstrikes at the same time you don't even know if your laser will be chosen.

[lcass123]

I agree that I've very rarely seen CAS actually cause any real significant damage. Playing as a xeno amounts to "Oh wow a red dot, going to move away from that." You literally never get hit by the things. True the PO coordination with the SL matters, you can close the window up with a little efficiency, but with four SL's all asking for airstrikes at the same time you don't even know if your laser will be chosen.

The only time i've ever seen CAS work effectively was against boilers who were too busy looking at bombardments which is just a bit dull, the glaring bid red laser just scares everyone away so nobody gets hit by it. Remove the red dot entirely and make the green dot appear when a weapon is fired and have the green dot flash until the munitions arrive, like a solid 5-7 seconds (easily long enough for every single alien unit to move away from it.)

[Challenger]

Actually firing OBs > Lasing but not firing CAS > Firing CAS > Not firing OBs

With OBs you know exactly what and where it's going to land, can position the beacon to hide it under something, don't need to be actively within the area standing still, and know exactly when the bombardment will start and that it'll end after three explosions.

With CAS the POs will never tell you what they're actually going to fire, and marines will always push into the path of the bombardment, or the POs will use the wrong ordinance for effect, or the worst of all, they'll actually get good hits in and THEN fire some extra bullshit that stops marines from following up. Once on big red I had STELLAR CAS that downed a bunch of T3s, ordered the marines to push forward, then the next rocket that came in was a napalm rocket that covered the entire area in flame, letting the xenos who just got up escape, while stopping the marines from pushing.

Which is why I try to ask the POs what ordinance they have beforehand, and micromanage what they should send before asking for CAS. Still, downsides are there.

[Heckenshutze]

Use both for maximum xeno salt.

A good SL can't retreat to almayer with his OB still on his backpack.

[Steelpoint]

I think the CAS laser should have its firing restrictions slightly relaxed, not being able to fire on Table Fort for example is really weird yet you can fire onto dirt tiles surrounding Table Fort?

In the rare times I'm SL, and I'm on Ice or Big Red, the command channel is usually filled with the lamentations of the CAS pilots since its very hard to use CAS when half the map is underground and a quarter are inside buildings.

[Sneakyr]

OB doesn't do enough damage or, alternatively, have a large enough explosive radius with each explosive to be as useful as I want, plus I rarely use my OB since I only get one.
In my heart, I love the OB so much more, but logically CAS is significantly more useful in almost every regard on LV. When it comes to BR and Ice, CAS is the one that becomes almost completely useless.