War Commisars: A silly, yet fitting concept

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

Picture this: You've got two dozen marines, about 65% of these marines are the picture of health, but have no idea what they're doing, as they were conscripts from the USCM gulags off in space somewhere.
Another 25% of the two dozen are hardened veterans who are experts at their trade, but have such poorly made gear, they may as well be a conscript.
And the last few of this number are the cowards. These 10% are too afraid to fight because they don't want to spend an hour in deadchat waiting for the round the end.

This, is where you come in. Donning your pointy commissar hat, you grab your sabre and Mateba, blow a whistle, and yell at the American conscripts with you to "GET OFF YOUR ASSES AND GO KILL THEIR BOILERS DAMN IT". The 65% obey hesitantly, and ineffectively, and start unintentionally shooting each other in the back as they go. The 25% ignore you, because hey, all this is is just a LT with a funny hat, he can't make me do squat! And the last 10% say "Screw you, Boris, I'm staying here guarding Autismfort while getting flattened by boiler shells!

At this point, you decidedly point at one of the three groups, point your mateba at the nearest member of said group, and blow their head off like a tee ball. As the dust settles and the jaws undrop, you yell to your meatbags "DID I FUCKING STUTTER?".

Obviously, a round like this is the stuff of fiction. Command would NEVER be allowed to shoot marines for cowardice or insubordination, would they...?

Here's my proposition which I already know isn't going to work but is a interesting concept at the very least:

With, and ONLY WITH, admin/high command's permission, the marine command staff can activate a new order for the crew: "ACTIVATE COMMISARY" (Name is a WIP)

This allows command staff to:

A. Designate a Commisar from the pool of available command staff or Military Police.

B. Grant said Commisar permission to execute insubordination, murder, etc. Without having to be the Commander.

A Commisar is:

A player who has been given a unique uniform (with pointy hat) and has been charged with the maintenance of 'morale' within the general marine corp.

The Commisar is entrusted to:

Ensure orders are followed. VERY STRICTLY.

Ensure cowardice, dissent, and insubordination is crushed mercilessly.

Punish people who have commited crimes in Marine Law, but cannot be easily taken up to the Almayer to be punished properly. Note: this only applies to medium-high to high level crimes such as assault, armed assault, murder, manslaughter, insubordination etc.

Fight enemies sometimes. But mostly shooting stupid marines.

This is good because:

A. It adds to the authenticity that marines are cannon fodder.

B. It promotes more aggression and less camping in a half melted FOB for half an hour.

C. It gives those two extra LTs something to do.

D. It can add more drama and stuff to work with in the round, more internal conflict is always fun.

This is absolutely fucking stupid because:

A. It can lead to a magical spectrum of fuck ups, RDM, and FF

B. Marines could just kill the commisar or mutiny.

C. It puts too much trust in a non-whitelisted role.

D. It can be abused really easily.

As much as this concept is a bad idea, I can't help but think that something like this COULD and SHOULD exist to help break up camping in FOBs where boilers can just melt marines endlessly.

Feel free to discuss this concept or tell me how fat I am and stupid for thinking up this idea.

[coroneljones]

If you will not serve in the frontline.
You WILL serve in the firing line.

[taketheshot56]

As much as I like this idea it makes no sense. Commisars were there to ensure the communists parties ideals were represented. The USCM would never have commisars as it serves the constitution of the United Americas and not one particular party. also allowing a non whitelisted player to field execute, WHOA BOYO. Still one day I would like to see a platoon commander as an officer who is always on the ground.

[Heckenshutze]

Sadly, this idea has been suggested many times before. The closest thing we have is the Admiral event role.

I can only see this happening if Feweh decides to make a special round where instead of the USCM we're the UPP

[Hulkamania]

As it stands right now the only REAL reason anyone should be killed by another human is a Commander authorized field execution.

Sure, the integrity of most of the players on this server is just a smidge above "absolute anarchy" and many could fill the role fine, but I think it would lead to WAY too many complaints and investigations on if a kill was justified or not. This is particularly a problem because as you said, there is no whitelist in this proposal which is the only reason the Commander can get away with it in the first place.

[Sir Lordington]

As it stands right now the only REAL reason anyone should be killed by another human is a Commander authorized field execution.

Sure, the integrity of most of the players on this server is just a smidge above "absolute anarchy" and many could fill the role fine, but I think it would lead to WAY too many complaints and investigations on if a kill was justified or not. This is particularly a problem because as you said, there is no whitelist in this proposal which is the only reason the Commander can get away with it in the first place.

The Commander has the power to perform battlefield executions. If he wants to execute someone in this fashion, he has to do it himself. A mod/admin can confirm, but I am certain that you cannot delegate this responsibility. So anyone else executing someone on orders from the commander would actually be illegal.

[solidfury7]

I can say with an almost certainty that this will never get approved.

Not to be a party popper but it's been suggested so many times.

[caleeb101]

I say screw making sense. We already have non-canon stuff and this would be hella fun. The only thing I'd change about it is it not being a whitelisted role. Marines are forced to turtle a lot by the xenos because staying out in the open exposes them to stupidly fast flanks and easy but slower grind downs at the front. At least this could end rounds earlier if marines are going to lose.

[spicemoron]

We already have this role,
it's called Squad Marine with AP.

[Renomaki]

This already has been tried and it failed considerably.

See, Commissars in real life are scary because dying in real life is scary. Fighting an enemy that wants you dead is bad enough, but having a man on YOUR SIDE who constantly barks orders at you and is eager to put a bullet in your head for almost any reason is even more distressing. Naturally, it would be better for your survival to charge at an entrenched MG nest then it would be to piss this guy off, because at least you have a slightly higher survival chance during the former.

However, this is SS13 CM, and as past attempts showed, people don't respect commissars as much as you think. In fact, there were many cases of marines murdering their commissar for "being a dick", despite the fact that their job IS to be a dick and order people to their deaths to further their objectives. Even ADMIRALS get attacked for putting a bullet in someone's head for disrespect. It got so bad that Apop had to update the rules to CLARIFY that they have the freedom to kill people that displease them, and even then there are still incidents where commanders/admirals are mobbed by their own marines for attempting to execute someone.

Commissars are destined to fail.

[Voldirs]

Commisars = Commy
No

[davidofmk771]

I really don't think commissars and lackadaisical executions fit the aesthetic theme of the USCM and W-Y, which I would best describe as "Space Reaganomics". In the late 22nd century the USCM is a socially diverse organization and W-Y is a cynical mega-corporation, they don't rely on gulags, penal platoons, and secret police, but rather debtors prisons, aggressive recruitment tactics, and PMC death squads.

The United Americas and the AvP universe as a whole should, in my mind, mirror the 80's in attitude and aesthetic, and i've seen quite a bit of that in my time on this server. Fax machines, filing cabinets, giant supercomputers. Executing scared marines for refusing to die is just a bit much in my mind, and I would be unsettled if a normal commander did that despite the marines being willing to surrender to MPs. For say, attempting to throw civilians out of escape pods, or going AWOL with expensive and dangerous equipment? Sure, thats an immediate danger to lives. But blowing people's heads off because they are terrified and don't want to run into a group of ravegers or a cloud of acid feels very OOC for the colonial marines in my eyes.

Maybe it would fit better with the UPP, but a role that allows human players to kill other human players tends to lead to OOC issues too...

[Wubs4Scrubs]

There's a lot here that either hasn't been thought out, or is just bad.

USCM gulags

I'm not sure if you realize this, but there is actual lore that goes into deciding what features are added or removed from the game. Making up USCM gulags seems pretty ridiculous in terms of the lore considering that there is already a soviet-like power in the universe (the UPP).

Donning your pointy commissar hat, you grab your sabre and Mateba, blow a whistle, and yell at the American conscripts

You again seem to be thinking that USCM=USSR which just isn't the case. In fact, I don't know 100% but I really doubt that the USCM even has a conscription service because of how pitiful their manpower is. Despite the vast sectors across the galaxy the USCM is tasked with protecting, they have a pitifully small force only ~150,000 strong. Given this number I'd personally assume that the USCM absolutely doesn't conscript soldiers. Each marine is probably very valued and well trained given that they are apparently not that expendable on a galactic scale.

A. Designate a Commisar from the pool of available command staff or Military Police.

Jesus with the amount of MP and command job bans I see appealed can you fathom the amount of mass murder that a change like this would make? The USCM can't afford to go around executing every single person that doesn't follow orders to a T so they have left the power only to the most competent and experienced person (ideally anyways) the commander. You addressed the fact that this position gives WAY too much power to a non-whiteliested position which is very true, however it not only fails in that respect but it also makes the commander useless because it takes away the only thing that makes him functionally unique.

A. It adds to the authenticity that marines are cannon fodder.

As I touched on, in the grand scale marines really aren't cannon fodder. Given their limited numbers lore wise a job like this makes no sense because it's essentially shooting yourself in the foot when your other leg was already in a cast. They are the lowest rank but by no means should that qualify them as cannon fodder.

B. It promotes more aggression and less camping in a half melted FOB for half an hour.

Let me break down how this would actually play out in a round. The CO gives an order to attack across the river, the marines attack across the river, since xenos are powerful they cannot actually push across the river. "UNGA DUNGA, FOLLOW ORDERS" and then the commisar starts executing people who aren't suicide rushing in like morons. There's a difference between cowardice and competence and the commisar would punish marines for not getting themselves killed.

C. It gives those two extra LTs something to do.

This is not a good thing. Both because you said that MPs can be given the position, and also because you are giving the power to a non-whitelisted role. If people find playing LT boring, then don't play LT. They have plenty to do given that they are supposed to be monitoring the squads at all times to make sure coordination is happening. A great way to ensure that coordination doesn't happen is to send one of them off to go murder some of the marines that they're supposed to be monitoring.

D. It can add more drama and stuff to work with in the round, more internal conflict is always fun.

More drama isn't a good thing. Drama that isn't nonsensical is good. Forcing drama into the game will feel just like that, forced. More internal conflict isn't always fun. Most scenarios will play out with the commisar shooting maybe one or two people before getting gunned down himself (What a fun and interesting mechanic right?). This would lead to the squad or squads hating command, which would lead to them not following orders. So ironically, your proposed way to get a role that makes people follow orders more will ensure that people don't follow orders.

tl;dr This change makes zero sense lore wise, and zero sense gameplay wise.

[davidofmk771]

You again seem to be thinking that USCM=USSR which just isn't the case. In fact, I don't know 100% but I really doubt that the USCM even has a conscription service because of how pitiful their manpower is. Despite the vast sectors across the galaxy the USCM is tasked with protecting, they have a pitifully small force only ~150,000 strong. Given this number I'd personally assume that the USCM absolutely doesn't conscript soldiers. Each marine is probably very valued and well trained given that they are apparently not that expendable on a galactic scale.

As I touched on, in the grand scale marines really aren't cannon fodder. Given their limited numbers lore wise a job like this makes no sense because it's essentially shooting yourself in the foot when your other leg was already in a cast. They are the lowest rank but by no means should that qualify them as cannon fodder.

I have to echo these points especially. Based on what iv'e gathered, the USCM, outside of xenomorph-encounters, mostly deal with CLF insurgency and "bug hunts", the extermination of hostile/destructive wildlife on colonized worlds. They rely mostly on overwhelming technological superiority and rigorous training, much like the US military in real life. The USCM essentially amounting to a penal battalion doesn't seem to fit the setting very well, and the expendability of standard marines isn't supposed to be a given, its supposed to be a testament to the raw killing ability of xenomorphs. I'd imagine in most CLF and bug hunt operations marines would rarely die simply because of how advanced medical technology is in the present setting.

[GoliathTheDespoiler]

tl;dr This change makes zero sense lore wise, and zero sense gameplay wise.

Yeah. The main purpose of this post was to start a discussion on the topic. I can see clearly WHY a commisar would suck majorly, but I had felt is might've been something of interest to discuss.

I'll argue your points tomorrow, is like 10 o'clock at night.

[Desolane900]

Never forget the day we had a Vice Admiral come and chop people's hands off for incompetence. So glad I was on the ground that day instead of on the Sulaco since Saul would be a stubbed mess.

[Kesserline]

Yesterday night, because Delta squad refused to suicide in Central Nexus and decided to fall back on the Alamo, the CDR ordered that the MPs arrest EVERY single members of the Delta Squad, including those wounded or injured before the actions.

About 8 Delta marines and their SO marched on the CIC to ask, weapons in hand, to erase the charges against them. While the battle was raging onboard the Almayer because Xenos appeared to know how to fly a space shuttle, but not how to park correctly on a spaceship.

After the CDR tried to execute the SO, one MP two MPs were roasted (with a flamethrower), and one died.

The CDR tried again and headshotted a Marine with his Mateba, before seing another MP burning alive, and him too.


If the CDR and his MPs can't arrest an entire squad and not survive. How can you expect a filthy commissar, who has to be a dick by his job, to survive only 5 minutes after the Xenos start pushing ?

It's just my opinion, but this game is so much funnier when serving under friendly officers than dicks. Officers teach baldies how to play, how to fight. Dicks will just make a player ragequit, or ragekill the said dick. If you want some RP, like Commissar RP, you'll have to change many things on this game, including enforcing Serious RP instead of Medium RP.

[Heckenshutze]

you'll have to change many things on this game, including enforcing Serious RP instead of Medium RP.

Imagine if we actually enforced heavy RP to marines.. they would just win everytime.

[Kesserline]

That's why it's just impossible. If meme aliens, low RP aliens or even NoRP aliens are allowed, then, you can't enforce Serious RP for marines. The serious you want the RP to be, the slow the game is. It's not worse, it's just like that.

[Renomaki]

Yesterday night, because Delta squad refused to suicide in Central Nexus and decided to fall back on the Alamo, the CDR ordered that the MPs arrest EVERY single members of the Delta Squad, including those wounded or injured before the actions.

About 8 Delta marines and their SO marched on the CIC to ask, weapons in hand, to erase the charges against them. While the battle was raging onboard the Almayer because Xenos appeared to know how to fly a space shuttle, but not how to park correctly on a spaceship.

After the CDR tried to execute the SO, one MP two MPs were roasted (with a flamethrower), and one died.

The CDR tried again and headshotted a Marine with his Mateba, before seing another MP burning alive, and him too.


If the CDR and his MPs can't arrest an entire squad and not survive. How can you expect a filthy commissar, who has to be a dick by his job, to survive only 5 minutes after the Xenos start pushing ?

It's just my opinion, but this game is so much funnier when serving under friendly officers than dicks. Officers teach baldies how to play, how to fight. Dicks will just make a player ragequit, or ragekill the said dick. If you want some RP, like Commissar RP, you'll have to change many things on this game, including enforcing Serious RP instead of Medium RP.

I was the CMP of that very round, the one that didn't WANT to arrest all of Delta (mainly due to how IMPOSSIBLE it would be to contain an entire squad with only a handful of MPs and myself), but had no choice but to obey the CO's orders... Only for a mutiny to suddenly happen and drag me in the middle of it.

During the mutiny, I tried to be the peace-maker, not trusting the Deltas to keep their hands off the CO, so I pretty much acted as a human shield for him while I tried to calm down everyone and get their focus towards more important matters. Through it all, however, the CO was constantly ITCHING to kill them, whispering plots into my ears, and the moment I got out of his way, he started SHOOTING UP THE PLACE with his mataba, getting a number of innocents killed and spilling so much needless blood.

This shows that, if given such power, some people might get a little TOO eager to start shit over the slightest thing. Hell, Carson one executed about 8 men for simply calling him bad names... And he was a CO. Imagine if he was a commissar?

You could have a game of LV and half the marine force would be dead before the fog even drops, and that is another reason why they wouldn't work. Give a player too much power, and... You know...

[HR171]

Pretty bad idea as this is based in the AvP universe not the Warhamer 40k universe.

[OatzAndHoes]

Meh I don't really like this. Although I try my best to follow orders, this game is based off of a movie which was based off of the Vietnam War. In that war there were a lot of situations where junior officers and NCOs would be very detached from their commanders. It was not uncommon for a squad or platoon to be ordered to patrol an area a certain distance, then the patrol would go less than halfway and report they did the whole thing. This is a war where drug use became rampant and officers would sometimes be fragged by their enlisted. Discipline was not very high in this war because it was a drafted army. War Commisars just don't fit with the setting whatsoever, this isn't the Soviet Union or 40k.

[Mobius_None]

A War Commisar for the UPP would make lots of sense though. Anyone caught sympathizing with the "capitalist pigs" would be shot on the spot.

[puglife]

A commissar with a free pass to kill marines would be a bad fit for this server. However, I think there's room for a Sergeant Major that could motivate marines and teach baldies about marine rules and regulations.

A War Commisar for the UPP would make lots of sense though. Anyone caught sympathizing with the "capitalist pigs" would be shot on the spot.

+1 if they get to spawn with an Obrez. Why execute one unpatriotic coward when you can wipe out his whole squad as an example?

[Mobius_None]

A commissar with a free pass to kill marines would be a bad fit for this server. However, I think there's room for a Sergeant Major that could motivate marines and teach baldies about marine rules and regulations.

Yes a SGM would be awesome, they would be responsible for IC discipline and mentoring of all the enlisted troops while the CO and XO focus on strategy.