Actual Balanced Marine Comm Nerf Discussion

[Monoo]

Hiya.

Since once again people can't make non-salt update discussion threads, I'm going to try to do so here.

Devs, with all due respect, we the community feel that this is a major misstep. Communication is at the heart of SS13 and any of its variants; perhaps moreso for Colonial Marines. With the nerf as it stands, marine comms on the ship are almost completely silent and if anything major were to occur aboard the Almayer - say, a freshly bursted larva escaped into the vents - they would be informed either far past the occurrence of the event or not at all. This eviscerates the flow of information from the top of the chain of command to the bottom; if the game is in lowpop and there is no commander or XO, updates on the status of the ship and the operation on the ground will be minimal at best.

Not to mention, it doesn't make sense from an IC perspective. Why would the headsets of a battalion of soldiers not be tuned to the frequency of their headquarters?

I'd ask that you provide your reasons for this nerf, and in return hope you listen to our concerns. Thanks.

[getfreur]

I nave never ser low rank soldiers have direct comunication with high rank officers in the middle of a operation.

[Bronimin]

How how about we defer this conversation for one week and wait to see what happens.

[Rikman]

Yeah I literally cannot see anyone else giving other squads info, and it makes communication really hard for us now.

[Sulaboy]

I don't think this change will effect much. From an IC perspective it's a big mistake to let every private access the ships intercom through their headsets. I'm glad to have this gone. General coms is usually just spam in my chat boxes. It is either ship side roles communicating, random conversations I'm listening in on, or sometimes when an alien is onboard a location is given. When on the ground there's no use for this, and when on the alamayer this channel can still be listened into with the intercoms, you don't even need to toggle the microphone on if you use :i while standing next to an intercom. If orders are being sent through General coms there's a problem. One change that is probably needed is to allow POs and maybe some others the ability to send a message to all squads. The only thing that relied on general chat was the PO, and if we just find a way around that then everything would be perfect. It might even get engineers and medics to convey more information through the medical and engineering channels as that allows all other medics and engineers to hear them.

[Liptick]

Personaly i think this is welcome. I MIGHT miss something important as opposed to non stop irrelevant info. I hated being forced to listen to rp taking place on the ship when i was on the ground trying to weed out info meant for me. Theres still all the battle logs ill have to sift through but at least there will be less clutter.

[Monoo]

How how about we defer this conversation for one week and wait to see what happens.

May I ask why? I think the sooner we get the discussion ball rolling here, the better. People are upset.

[apophis775]

Let me explain how radio comms works IRL


EVERYONE had their "Squad" radio, sometimes Platoon as well (though, frequently Platoons will use a different radio to communicate between HMMWVs, called a SINCGARS). Normally, this is handled with something called an AN/PRC-148. One person in the squad, usually has a radio that connects to Company level for talking between platoons and their company. For this, they use a SINCGARS radios, as does everyone above Squad level. The HQ element of each Company has a SINGLE Battalion radio. The Battalion had a Brigade Radio. Brigade has a Divsion Radio. Above that we use satellite phones.

Here's the thing, higher ranking radios can always transfer themselves DOWN if they want. However, lower ranking radios can NEVER transfer themselves up.

[Trench007]

Let me explain how radio comms works IRL


EVERYONE had their "Squad" radio, sometimes Platoon as well (though, frequently Platoons will use a different radio to communicate between HMMWVs, called a SINCGARS). Normally, this is handled with something called an AN/PRC-148. One person in the squad, usually has a radio that connects to Company level for talking between platoons and their company. For this, they use a SINCGARS radios, as does everyone above Squad level. The HQ element of each Company has a SINGLE Battalion radio. The Battalion had a Brigade Radio. Brigade has a Divsion Radio. Above that we use satellite phones.

Here's the thing, higher ranking radios can always transfer themselves DOWN if they want. However, lower ranking radios can NEVER transfer themselves up.

Then we need to have a Radio Operator added to each squad, so they can communicate with the other squads on the Company Level.

[Monoo]

Let me explain how radio comms works IRL


EVERYONE had their "Squad" radio, sometimes Platoon as well (though, frequently Platoons will use a different radio to communicate between HMMWVs, called a SINCGARS). Normally, this is handled with something called an AN/PRC-148. One person in the squad, usually has a radio that connects to Company level for talking between platoons and their company. For this, they use a SINCGARS radios, as does everyone above Squad level. The HQ element of each Company has a SINGLE Battalion radio. The Battalion had a Brigade Radio. Brigade has a Divsion Radio. Above that we use satellite phones.

Here's the thing, higher ranking radios can always transfer themselves DOWN if they want. However, lower ranking radios can NEVER transfer themselves up.

I'm not sure this is a case where realism translates well to game mechanics, Apop. Maybe add a designated radio operator to each squad, for organization's sake? As it stands, going from total awareness of everything happening on the Almayer to almost complete silence is jarring. It would be nice if we had someone other than the Squad Lead that could relay information from general comms to squad comms.

[nekcy]

Can't we have a common channel that works only in the colony in our headsets?

[Monoo]

Can't we have a common channel that works only in the colony in our headsets?

Aye, that'd also be nice. Considering that squad organization typically breaks down about an hour and a half into the round (if the marines last that long) and groups of marines of different squads are roaming around together, a way for them to all communicate while on the ground would be nice.

[thatguyfromlife]

May I ask why? I think the sooner we get the discussion ball rolling here, the better. People are upset.

Usually in a week we'll get another update that balances this out.

Like the great nerf of PFC medics, week later, more medic slots.

[Monoo]

Usually in a week we'll get another update that balances this out.

Like the great nerf of PFC medics, week later, more medic slots.

That's usually a product of community discussion, not the other way around. If there's a change sometime in the coming weeks, we can adjust the conversation to fit.

[getfreur]

Then we need to have a Radio Operator added to each squad, so they can communicate with the other squads on the Company Level.

We already have!! It's called squad leader!

[nekcy]

We already have!! It's called squad leader!

Most of the time marines don't listen and don't respect the SL's orders, they go rambo, SSD or are crewies.

[Crab_Spider]

I'm quite glad we have this. Now I have a reason to carry a station bounced radio.

[RobBrown4PM]

Let me explain how radio comms works IRL


EVERYONE had their "Squad" radio, sometimes Platoon as well (though, frequently Platoons will use a different radio to communicate between HMMWVs, called a SINCGARS). Normally, this is handled with something called an AN/PRC-148. One person in the squad, usually has a radio that connects to Company level for talking between platoons and their company. For this, they use a SINCGARS radios, as does everyone above Squad level. The HQ element of each Company has a SINGLE Battalion radio. The Battalion had a Brigade Radio. Brigade has a Divsion Radio. Above that we use satellite phones.

Here's the thing, higher ranking radios can always transfer themselves DOWN if they want. However, lower ranking radios can NEVER transfer themselves up.

Right, however, this is a game. I get what you guys are trying to with this change, but I think it translates over poorly on this platform.

I enjoy this type of communication in a game like Arma, but I don't think I'll like it in SS13 where general coms helps to bring the player base together, and helps to stoke the fear, paranoia and mistrust that the players create for them selves.

[getfreur]

This game os more advanced then arma, because you have support roles that are necessary and Fun and about mistrust, patanoia and fear in a alien game? This is part of the core in combating aliens and make It more realist.

[Monoo]

I'm quite glad we have this. Now I have a reason to carry a station bounced radio.

A good idea, might be considered powergaming in the future though if things keep heading in a more squad-oriented direction.

Also, another problem with the nerf: general comms is vital to marines figuring out where to defend on the Almayer and learning where the dropship crash lands. This'll just keep the marines permanently confused and directionless after the ship is boarded, and make the endgame that much more of a one sided curbstomp.

[apophis775]

That's usually a product of community discussion, not the other way around. If there's a change sometime in the coming weeks, we can adjust the conversation to fit.

Nope.

Before the adjustments we had already decided to increase medic slots. But we wanted to determine HOW MANY based on how the game was played.

[RobBrown4PM]

This game os more advanced then arma, because you have support roles that are necessary and Fun and about mistrust, patanoia and fear in a alien game? This is part of the core in combating aliens and make It more realist.

What I'm saying is Arma is a true mil-sim. If I'm right, I believe the Devs are trying to shift the game heavily away from SS13 and create their own thing. This isn't a bad thing, in fact I'm all for it, however, at the core of the game there is still the SS13 fundamentals that make CM the game we all love and adore. I think it would be wrong to mess with some of these fundamentals.

[Cupcakes_n_Hacksaws]

Let me explain how radio comms works IRL


EVERYONE had their "Squad" radio, sometimes Platoon as well (though, frequently Platoons will use a different radio to communicate between HMMWVs, called a SINCGARS). Normally, this is handled with something called an AN/PRC-148. One person in the squad, usually has a radio that connects to Company level for talking between platoons and their company. For this, they use a SINCGARS radios, as does everyone above Squad level. The HQ element of each Company has a SINGLE Battalion radio. The Battalion had a Brigade Radio. Brigade has a Divsion Radio. Above that we use satellite phones.

Here's the thing, higher ranking radios can always transfer themselves DOWN if they want. However, lower ranking radios can NEVER transfer themselves up.

I'm completely 100% fine with this lack of, uh, realism, if it means we can get our comms back. It's a spessman game, we're all hear to have some fun shooting xeno scum or slice limbs off baldies, I don't see why we have neuter our communication all in the name of RP when this is a gameplay driven server. It's your guys' server, I understand that, and I love this server; it's the only ss13 I even play anymore, the RP focus in those servers just don't do it for me. But the hair raising tension in holding out against a xeno onslaught? Running out into enemy territory to grab your SL and haul him back, hoping to god you don't get pounced on your way back in? Those are the moments that I play on this server for; the gameplay and the experiences it brings.

That's not to say I don't like the RP, I get into it every once in a while. But I, personally, feel like this just neuters our coordination, especially when it's late into the round and your squad is composed of nothing but remnants of messed up survivors, or trying to hunt down that dangerous lone ancient hunter roaming about. Yeah, I can call for help over squad comms, my SL/SO relays that to the other SOs/CO, and hopefully they believe it necessary to relay it back to their squads... but at that point it's just a game of telephone, and the delay in response time is now huge, as well as multiple chances of miscommunication all from a single request.

You've all made it quite clear that this is NOT being reverted NO MATTER WHAT, so I don't really know what I'm expecting out of this post, but I figured I should at least give my 2 cents. I appreciate what you guys are all doing for this server, but I happen to disagree with the aim of this particular update is all.

[Lumi Pharon]

Lots of things in real life don't translate well into games, let alone 2d spessmen. Communication and situational awareness are the big two. Considering realism goes out the window in almost all aspects of the game in favour of somewhat sensible gameplay, I don't like when it's used to selectively justify things that are BAD gameplay.

The ability to communicate is already severely restricted in the sense that it relies purely on typing and reading, which both slow down the ability to communicate with others, and this is a game that relies heavily on communication and co-ordination. While I personally see no benefit to severely hampering the marines ability to actually have any useful communication (good luck late game when most of the squads are packing heavy casualties/scattered into mixed groups of whatever they can scrounge up), any discussion on the pros and cons/justification for the change should be based on balance and gameplay, bringing up realism serves zero purpose and is a weak crutch instead of an actual argument (for or against).

[DeLineFortune]

Let me explain how radio comms works IRL

>IRL

>Marines cant even open pill bottles or dont know about first aid medicine