should queens have a hard counter?

[Reuben Owen]

A thread got me thinking earlier about queens, and how they currently have no counterplay and whatnot.
Do you find this true? Is there no "guide" to queen killing?

I notice Marines have been winning a lot lately. Is this unrelated to the so called "power" of the Queen, or are Queens balanced? Or are a bunch of new players just playing Queen and using her poorly?

[Simo94]

They should nerf queen and buff all the other castes instead.

[Heckenshutze]

Queens do have a counter:

Sustained gunfire.


Even a lone marine can kill the Queen if the circunstances favor him

[Imperator_Titan]

Queens do have a counter:

Sustained gunfire.

[Dolth]

Queens do have a counter:

Sustained gunfire.


Even a lone marine can kill the Queen if the circunstances favor him

Denied to both of you. Sustained gunfire is the counter of ANY BAD XENO, regardless of their caste.

The Queen do not have any counter currently, and it should not. In my very opinion a Queen only dies to outnumbering.
On another hand, you can not disagree the Queen holding every alien perk is completely bullshit, regarding either RP or gameplay limits.

Now even if aliens are supposed to be stronger, individually, than marines. In my opinion the Queen perks should not include NEUROSPIT, and charge.

[Thatnewguy1]

Just give queens the ability to destroy doors they open and have them take up two tiles instead of one.

[Kenner_Alien_Kaste]

Denied to both of you. Sustained gunfire is the counter of ANY BAD XENO, regardless of their caste.

The Queen do not have any counter currently, and it should not. In my very opinion a Queen only dies to outnumbering.
On another hand, you can not disagree the Queen holding every alien perk is completely bullshit, regarding either RP or gameplay limits.

Now even if aliens are supposed to be stronger, individually, than marines. In my opinion the Queen perks should not include NEUROSPIT, and charge.

I gotta slightly disagree with Thatnewguy1 here, though I'll admit it kinda goes without saying that pretty much any living thing (or in the case of Synths, 'nonliving') is pretty allergic to a shit ton of bullets.

Also, the Queen is mostly just an egg dispenser who barks her kids around to not let her die in the first place. While she IS capable of standing on her own two feet and can be pretty OP, I honestly don't think a Queen should be in the middle of a brawl where a counter would be needed in the first place-because if she's in the middle of a brawl with a whole squad of Marines, she's going to be filled with more holes than Alien: Covenant's logic (I don't hate the movie, in fact I actually like it but, DAMN the characters do some brainless stuff. Some of it is understandable in the circumstances, but, still man.)

[solidfury7]

I quite like the Queen how she is.

If you removed the spit, I'd be happy as Larry.

Ive been playing a lot of xeno recently and I'd argue they don't really need a buff.

[Symbiosis]

Queen has a hard counter. It'll drop an Elite Empress relatively quickly, one or two Marines could chase her down and end her quickly.

What is it?

AP Rifle rounds.

[Dolth]

I quite like the Queen how she is.

If you removed the spit, I'd be happy as Larry.

Ive been playing a lot of xeno recently and I'd argue they don't really need a buff.

Either spit, either charge. Both of those abilities are both aggressive/defensive and VERY effective. Queen already have the screech, that makes 2 VERY effective controls and 1 engage/escape in addition of all the buff she already have.
But again, regarding any hard counter. It's a heavy no from me, Queen is meant to be a final boss, and boss are meant to be final, not pushing across you while you're just starting the round.

In other words, yes to an OP Queen, no to a Queen with heavy offensive abilitieS.

EDIT: Chubs, jesus, throw your ego away. Even two of you dies to a regular queen. Just get screeched and slashed to death, and if any of you manage to stand up just get neurotox spitted. It's all about the player.

[Symbiosis]

Either spit, either charge. Both of those abilities are both aggressive/defensive and VERY effective. Queen already have the screech, that makes 2 VERY effective controls and 1 engage/escape in addition of all the buff she already have.
But again, regarding any hard counter. It's a heavy no from me, Queen is meant to be a final boss, and boss are meant to be final, not pushing across you while you're just starting the round.

In other words, yes to an OP Queen, no to a Queen with heavy offensive abilitieS.

EDIT: Chubs, jesus, throw your ego away. Even two of you dies to a regular queen. Just get screeched and slashed to death, and if any of you manage to stand up just get neurotox spitted. It's all about the player.

Ego? What are you talking about? AP shreds the Queen is all I said, fam. I agree the Queen is extremely strong, but that's tied to the fact the role has such a large role to play in any given round.

[Simo94]

If its a defensive boxed Queen then sure it is counter-able by AP rounds, shotguns, snipers, AT rockets and w.e, but if its an offensive Queen that runs in, screeches, slashes away, then immediately runs out before marines get up, then no there is no counter to that unless the Queen herself makes a mistake.

[Dolth]

Easy bud, just throwing banter on you. And yeah AP just shred anything down but that's not what I call a hard counter, if you can land enough AP to kill a Queen then regular would of fit aswell. Though again, two marines, regardless of how good they are, can NOT kill a Queen when played by someone good with that caste. It's just prevented by the Queen's ability/mechanisms and that's what I personally denonciate. Imo it should not have any hard counter, but it should not be an offensive tool at all.

PS: I love you, no offense with that 'Ego' thing, I'll ERT pizza for you next round we meet.

And yeah I totally agree with that Simo94.

[Symbiosis]

Easy bud, just throwing banter on you. And yeah AP just shred anything down but that's not what I call a hard counter, if you can land enough AP to kill a Queen then regular would of fit aswell. Though again, two marines, regardless of how good they are, can NOT kill a Queen when played by someone good with that caste. It's just prevented by the Queen's ability/mechanisms and that's what I personally denonciate. Imo it should not have any hard counter, but it should not be an offensive tool at all.

PS: I love you, no offense with that 'Ego' thing, I'll ERT pizza for you next round we meet.

And yeah I totally agree with that Simo94.

Little bit quirky, but s'all good.

Best way I can reduce CM down to simplistic terms is it's a game of chess. Certain pieces are strong. Except in CM one side has 40 pawns where the other side has 6 bishops, 3 rooks, and a Queen.

Most castes played by competent players do not have a hard set counter. There's things that are stronger against castes and then specific weapons that are sometimes even slam dunks against specific castes. (RPG vs Prae/T2 when flanked by backup)

If you're TWO marines you're going to die to an Elite or Ancient T2, let alone the Queen. My number of 2 marines chasing down the Queen is a post-screech scenario and that they're alive and well.

The only way CM could exist where 2 marines can locate, chase down, and kill the Queen is one where Marines are outnumbered 4 to 1 rather than the other way around. Which would be significant limits on starting Marines.

[Dolth]

Most castes played by competent players do not have a hard set counter.

Pretty sure explosive to stunlock T1-T-2 and praetorian is a hard counter.
Pretty sure pyro blue flames to crusher is a hard counter.
Pretty sure runner low HP in exange of agility is a hard counter (crit from mines, crit from CqC BC cuckshot).

Pretty sure the Queen has none of those.
Pretty sure the term 'hard counter' stands regardless the player skill, which is way it IS a hard counter and not just a weakness.

[Symbiosis]

Pretty sure explosive to stunlock T1-T-2 and praetorian is a hard counter.
Pretty sure pyro blue flames to crusher is a hard counter.
Pretty sure runner low HP in exange of agility is a hard counter (crit from mines, crit from CqC BC cuckshot).

Pretty sure the Queen has none of those.
Pretty sure the term 'hard counter' stands regardless the player skill, which is way it IS a hard counter and not just a weakness.

AP. You're seriously overestimating the Queens durability. One player has the RPG; just one. B18 is relatively easy to avoid getting caught by. If the Praetorian is smart and corner spits or chooses their fighting area they can easily locate the RPG. Walking into an open area is prettt dumb AF. Finding the Pyro is also easy, Sprite is recognizable.

Did you not see, specifically, why the balance of individual power is always going to be tilted against Marines due to sheer numbers and the idea that playing Xeno is tied solely to baddies and is easy to do. Killing Xenos isn't hard, they're immobile and squishy. If you remain with a group of Marines it's not difficult to nab double digit Xeno scalps as long as you have the right weapon - and ammo.

[Dolth]

Alright you don't seem to understand. Let's make it easy : Boom + T1-T2-Prae = Stun and death . Pyro blue flames on crusher = Pretty much ded . BC Cuck (or just normal cuck for young) at CQC on runner = crit then ded .
That's a hard counter, you get hit, you crit.

Now if you're good enough to dodge RPG, stay away from nades, spot pyro and stay strictly out of his blue flames. Then congratulation, you're hereby a robusto alien. But here, not even pointing every alien isn't as good; it just does NOT make you immune to those events that would, if hit, kill you straight out.

And again, it's not the case of the Queen. The only way kill her is then the same absolute way to kill anyTHING* on SS13, AKA lot of firepower, duh. That's not what I call a hard counter, that's what I call just... Obviousness?

[Mvp777]

One pseudo counter to Queen screeches is the mounted smartgun, as you can still fire the smartgun as long as you are still standing; Even if you got stunned by the screech itself. Although the mounted smartgun is pretty situational.

During that melee event one of my lives was as a CLF with a MP27 SMG with burst fire, managed to bring the queen to around half health before i got caught, thing is with queens is that they screech, scratch a bit then run away before any major amount of damage can really be done to them. Screeching is the do all end all press 1 to win button for ayyz.

[dylanstrategie]

Queen should have no specific counter, because otherwise it's gonna be used to the extreme to instantly shut down a Queen. There is absolutely no way to balance it. Rare items will be stored for that event. Expensive items will get RO priority. Hard to use items will find skilled users. Situational items will be set up.

Explosives, especially nade carpetting, used to be the hard counter to frontline Queens. If you could sneak in after a screech and double nade her, she'd be down long enough for her screech victims to get back up and blow her apart.

The death of a Queen literally paralyzes the Hive for a dozen minutes, undos well-needed upgrades for supporting hard pushes, and can end a round if it happens at an inopportune time, even if the Xenos were in an upswing. So we're not gonna allow Baldie McBaldieface to suddenly pull a can of kryptonite on the Queen and total her out of nowhere.

[Sargeantmuffinman]

Bullets, frag grenades and a lot of bullets.

Good old bullets.
AP if you have any.

Rockets do well but, it's risk and reward.


And no, the queen shouldn't have a hard counter. They're hulking beasts that shouldn't be killed easily. It'd offset balance tipping it in favour of the marines.

[Dolth]

Bullets, frag grenades and a lot of bullets.

Good old bullets.
AP if you have any.

Rockets do well but, it's risk and reward.


And no, the queen shouldn't have a hard counter. They're hulking beasts that shouldn't be killed easily. It'd offset balance tipping it in favour of the marines.

You kind of forgot frag grenades doesn't damage neither stun her, same for rockets, same for flames. Have a good day.

Queen should have no specific counter, because otherwise it's gonna be used to the extreme to instantly shut down a Queen. There is absolutely no way to balance it. Rare items will be stored for that event. Expensive items will get RO priority. Hard to use items will find skilled users. Situational items will be set up.

Explosives, especially nade carpetting, used to be the hard counter to frontline Queens. If you could sneak in after a screech and double nade her, she'd be down long enough for her screech victims to get back up and blow her apart.

The death of a Queen literally paralyzes the Hive for a dozen minutes, undos well-needed upgrades for supporting hard pushes, and can end a round if it happens at an inopportune time, even if the Xenos were in an upswing. So we're not gonna allow Baldie McBaldieface to suddenly pull a can of kryptonite on the Queen and total her out of nowhere.

Right, Queen's shouldn't have any counters, that's a fact. Now was that realy necessary to give her the ability to sprint, crush walls, neurotoxin spit, immortal to fire, explosions, stun-proof?*
The Queen is currently used as a strong ass frontliner nowaday. And that IS an issue. Because you cannot do anything against a Queen that paralyzes everyone, neurotox, flank herself, etc. Play the game more often, you might figure it out yourself.

[Sargeantmuffinman]

You kind of forgot frag grenades doesn't damage neither stun her, same for rockets, same for flames. Have a good day.

I didn't specify flames. Rockets on the other hand with AP were designed to target heavily armoured enemies.

I know that heavily armoured xenos like the crusher and queen are quite resistant to explosive damage, that's what the M5 RPG with AP was for, taking them out.
Yet I haven't used the RPG spec in a while so the rockets are based on assumption.

The grenades would blind the queen, unless she has immunity to that, which I am unaware of.

[Gnorse]

No, Queens don't need a hard counter.
I do agree that her having both charge AND neuro is bad, So I'd love it if one of them got removed.
Another suggestion is that since queen is meant to be a 'final boss' as others put it, is to extend the 'mourn' time from 5(?) minutes to 15 or so.
ANOTHER suggestion would be to weaken/increase the queen's abilities (Neuro, Armor, Charge speed, Screech power) depending on her upgrade level.

[Vampmare]

The Queen should be very strong and the toughest xeno to take on alone, but being agaisnt an invincible Queen is never fun. I would prefer her to be highly resistant agaisnt everything but one type or just decent resistants across the board. Right now she is decent across the board and very strong against fire and explosives. This causes robust players to go combat Queen and carry games by themselves, instead of focusing on the hive.

[TrollerNoob]

I agree with the Queen not having a hard counter, but some of her abilities should be toned down. For example, she shouldn't have neuro-spit. Charge already allows her to blitz onto a screen, screech, then turn around and blitz away when under gun-fire.