From fun rounds to seeing rounds fade into the next

[Recounted]

It's been huge deal lately for me that each round I hop into just feels pretty boring and a waste of time to rp with people. Every round I go into it's everyone always just saying orders without other side chatter(or calling command shit but thats everyday so its normal). Maybe it's been the marines trying to keep the winning ratio up against the xenos or certain mechanics placed in to stop the meta bs going on, feels frustrating to force myself to do anything fun in the round if anyone else is just gonna do nothing and wait for some major fuckup to be done by anyone to get some sensational rp going on.

[taketheshot56]

I kinda have to agree, the rounds are very.....linear now and they go one of two ways

1. Marines drop
2. Marines move out to colony
3. Marines get into contact 1+ squad wiped
4. 20 or so minutes fighting in colony
5. Fallback to FOB
6. Evac
7. End round

OR

1. Marines drop
2. Marines move throughout Colony
3. Marines wipe Beno first wave
4. Marines dig in
5. Marines push Benos again
6. Benos routed
7. Spend twenty minutes hunting queen who sprints around map
8. End round


Everything is just so......linear now, there is no sense of surprise anymore, for whatever reason, like you said its just plain stale.

[xywenx00]

It's simple. become SL and change that. I like to use fun tactics as SL, you can too.

[Simo94]

I liked marine side better back when xenos stomped us 24/7, ppl didnt care about winning the round then, and just did whatever they felt like, but now that marines have a decent chance to win they get greedy and then thats all they focus on, and we all know that esport communities is as cancerous as gaming communities can possibly get.
Also that doesnt mean theres no fun atm either, u just gotta dig deeper thats all.

[Renomaki]

I liked marine side better back when xenos stomped us 24/7, ppl didnt care about winning the round then, and just did whatever they felt like, but now that marines have a decent chance to win they get greedy and then thats all they focus on, and we all know that esport communities is as cancerous as gaming communities can possibly get.
Also that doesnt mean theres no fun atm either, u just gotta dig deeper thats all.

You know what? This kinda feels about right.

Since marines developed this new "winning tactic", I noticed that rounds felt more empty and bland. Marine victories lost their luster when it became so common that you can't even be arsed to celebrate anymore, because it isn't special anymore.

I miss the days when marines were more based around heavy defenses and slow, steady advances, back when the fighting was more fierce and the battlefield was caked in blood and guts from intense fighting. Now it just consists of blitzkrieg after blitzkrieg the moment the fog drops, or recon teams "accidentally" stumbling into the xenos and charging them while every other squad is suddenly redeployed to engage the enemy in mass, no matter how little sense it might make.

Ironically, back then I liked this server because it was more predictable, making RP a tad easier when you know it isn't suddenly going to be a nuke ops round or a shadowling round or whathaveyou. But now I think it has gotten to the point where the enjoyment withered a tad.

Its why I decided to take a break to begin with, and hopefully by the time I come back, maybe things will be better. Dunno.

[taketheshot56]

You know what? This kinda feels about right.

Since marines developed this new "winning tactic", I noticed that rounds felt more empty and bland. Marine victories lost their luster when it became so common that you can't even be arsed to celebrate anymore, because it isn't special anymore.

I miss the days when marines were more based around heavy defenses and slow, steady advances, back when the fighting was more fierce and the battlefield was caked in blood and guts from intense fighting. Now it just consists of blitzkrieg after blitzkrieg the moment the fog drops, or recon teams "accidentally" stumbling into the xenos and charging them while every other squad is suddenly redeployed to engage the enemy in mass, no matter how little sense it might make.

Ironically, back then I liked this server because it was more predictable, making RP a tad easier when you know it isn't suddenly going to be a nuke ops round or a shadowling round or whathaveyou. But now I think it has gotten to the point where the enjoyment withered a tad.

Its why I decided to take a break to begin with, and hopefully by the time I come back, maybe things will be better. Dunno.

Yes! This is what I miss, Hour long battle fighting over the colony reducing it to rubble, nowadays marines cannot defend for more than 20 minutes. Id like to go back to where xenos can stomp almost any marine offensive but take time to beat through marine defenses.

[thatguyfromlife]

I liked marine side better back when xenos stomped us 24/7, ppl didnt care about winning the round then, and just did whatever they felt like, but now that marines have a decent chance to win they get greedy and then thats all they focus on, and we all know that esport communities is as cancerous as gaming communities can possibly get.

The only answer is to make CM a full on esports game, championship this summer.

I think I remember the exact time marines found the winning formula, sometime after the Ovi update, and the MOMENT that happened, you stopped seeing CO's trying new tactics and stuff. It went from "lets try sending a squad here this time" to "FOB, Comms, Scout, QRF, unga dunga lets go". I miss getting torn apart on first contact, I miss slowly being ground down to a few ragged survivors after finding xenos. Without that feeling of impending doom, winning or even doing well as a marine lost a lot that "fun" element for me. Marines either stomp the hive on first contact, or xenos tear apart the marines an hour in to round. Both sides are too strong with good leadership.

[Sneakyr]

It was inevitable that the push for a streamlined experience with the cutting out of many small features that either didn't make 100% sense or unbalanced the game and the various balance changes that eventually the streamline would turn into a linearization.
It is also important to mention that in the removal or nerf of some things the devs often wished to retain balance, but sometimes overlooked the fact that they were removing something incredibly overpowered but only able to be made by a select few and replacing it with something not as powerful but easier to use by more people.

The second sentence didn't quite get the point I want across, but it's as close as I'll get right now and so I'll leave it in.

[Sulaboy]

I think the real way to play cm is to make a friend and chat with them about stuff. Getting to speak with people makes them a part of your story. It makes it much more meaningful when you see that dead marine. I find it easier to talk to people in smaller groups, because you can usually find time to stop running around for a word or two. I've been thinking about making some key binds for stuff like screaming "Get it off me!" if I'm pounced or huggered. I feel like my favorite deaths are the ones that other people get to watch, like this time I missed the elevator on ice and got ripped to shreds infront of a small group of marines while "screaming" bloody murder. I don't know if the game is like that for you guys, but I like to see if I can set a scene for others if I get the chance. If you are getting bored or running out of ideas look at some of the aliens stuff, maybe watch the movie or read some lore.

[DrPng]

I agree here, it's probably why I play alien most of the time. I try my best to create side chatter and random situations when I play marine or civilian but it ends up being for not. Maybe it's because I'm not good at RP or maybe it's because people are focused on game play. Before I went on a long hiatus from CM, roleplay was at a higher standard. The commanders would be interesting and have their characteristics ( I think I remember RPing as liason who received a space bear after misspelling beer in a fax because the CO was a drunkard who spoke in old english and wanted high quality beer ) shit like that is memorable and what made me stayed. Then there'd be the occasional chit chatter in the drop ships and briefing and the unga dunga attachment.

[WinterClould]

Mannnnnn this thread depressed me. I guess, while I've been having fun lately... I guess it has been really generic, repetative, and just... dull. A boring kind of fun.

Marines are winning to often. It's just like back when we had that time when marines were never winning and it felt pointless.

And what sucks, instead of giving the xenos more tools to defeat the marines, instead the devs just buff the stats of the xenos and remove or heavily nerf things for the marines. Everyone got that hair in their ass over AP but here we are, AP and cargo nerfed, marines still just steam rolling, now just with less cool stuff floating around spicing the round up.

I also feel like, for some reason, somehow, there's been a massive braindrain on the xeno side. Like at some point a large amount of xeno mains or just people who played xeno sometimes and are robust just up and stopped playing. This has cause a big problem of just waves of stupid xenos existing and draining the hives larva supply. And it's not like you can idiot proof the xenos much more then they already are especially when half of them are incredibly cheesy strong as is and any buff would also just serve to make the robust xenos even stronger as well. So I've got no clue how to fix that one.

Honestly I don't know how to fix any of this really. I just know how to complain.

[SolarMacharius]

The issue with slowing down the meta is that marines cannot sustain long operations now. The Req change, while necessary, makes it so the game regards marines who push fast and hard, and punishes those who are slow. You cannot build massive fortifications anymore for long drawn out battles, there is not enough metal and points. There is barely enough material for a basic FOB and some forward outposts. Sentries are still terrible so you cannot hold areas as easily anymore. If you arent pushing, you are dead as a marine. If you are on the defensive, most likely the round will stretch to three plus hours and end with a marine loss. It also seems really difficult to activate the SD these days (As in trigger the evac and SD device), making last stand more dull.

Coordination among the Xenos seems at an all time low. When I play xeno, they just bleed off hunters and runners like crazy, oftentimes in areas of the map not on the frontlines. This lack of coordination, coupled with marines flanking more and being highly aggressive has lead to xenos basically being on the defensive immediately and getting tossed around. There is really no easy way to fix this, since this is down to the players who are playing the aliens being bad at adapting to any tactic that isn't "Send and isolated squad in to go die on the far end of the map". That is basically it.

[Slywater]

Playing MP is pretty variable. One day you have a mutiny, the next you have people flying down corridors on fire-extinguisher powered chairs. Changing jobs keeps the game fresh for me.

[WinterClould]

There's basically no point in having a FOB squad most of the time now unless you as CO start implementing arbitrary restrictions on your marines in order to weaken the steamroll, but if you do that it just pissses off the vets that know the meta and notice when you're fucking with it.

God I'm a little conflicted. We've been saying forever that all marines had to do to win was push. But now all they're doing is pushing and they're winning and we've realized that wasn't what we wanted.

Building FOBs that are never used sucks, but maybe not building a FOB and just stream rolling is even worse.

The lack of last stands sucks.

Why are we still here? Just to suffer..?

Oh wait no I know why were still here!

Because while every normal round is a shitty slog not worth your time to suffer though...

EVENT ROUNDS ARE FUCKING LITTTTTT.
That's it, I've realized it all. I've cracked the code. That's what's still been keeping me going. If It wasn't for the badass event rounds admins and devs run I'd prolly not be staff and not be so active. Those things are legit and actually make the game fun.

HvH once sucked ass but not I've been having a hella good time with it. Little things in HvA rounds really had some spice that makes it not so shit. (Corrupted benos and what not) Preds while minor are still like minievents! Fighting those guys is GREAT lotta fun. Zombies is real nifty if ya late join to dodge the first hour of dull nothing. That shits all what's been keeping me going.

[Simo94]

The issue with slowing down the meta is that marines cannot sustain long operations now. The Req change, while necessary, makes it so the game regards marines who push fast and hard, and punishes those who are slow. You cannot build massive fortifications anymore for long drawn out battles, there is not enough metal and points. There is barely enough material for a basic FOB and some forward outposts. Sentries are still terrible so you cannot hold areas as easily anymore. If you arent pushing, you are dead as a marine. If you are on the defensive, most likely the round will stretch to three plus hours and end with a marine loss. It also seems really difficult to activate the SD these days (As in trigger the evac and SD device), making last stand more dull.

Coordination among the Xenos seems at an all time low. When I play xeno, they just bleed off hunters and runners like crazy, oftentimes in areas of the map not on the frontlines. This lack of coordination, coupled with marines flanking more and being highly aggressive has lead to xenos basically being on the defensive immediately and getting tossed around. There is really no easy way to fix this, since this is down to the players who are playing the aliens being bad at adapting to any tactic that isn't "Send and isolated squad in to go die on the far end of the map". That is basically it.

Its a matter of balance changes by the dev team, not players of either sides, stupid xenos, just like marines, have and will always exist, also the same for vets, its just when xenos fight on an equal footing you start to notice it, you think back in the days of Crusher's AoE stomps there weren't stupid runners burning through the larva stock? I think not. Ever since devs lowered late join larva and nearly halved round start xenos people started to notice the deaths, cuz the numbers are lower, you wont notice 1 dying in a group of 50 more than you will notice 1 dying in a group of 25. Devs just need to wait it out after the last few changes to req and such to collect data and get feedback, then they'll give it another kick and see how far it rolls, thats how it works.

Also marines victories feel a bit bittersweet because beating an overdog as an underdog feels much much better than beating an equal opponent.

[jalen earl]

Simple be SL/SO and change the direction.

1)put in a request for a research mission to infect a monkey, take a whole squad as an escort.

2) actually take proper flanking manouvers, not bottleneck rushing like everyone does

3) set a recovery task e.x located bravos SL and retrieve his equipment and body for burial.

4) use scouting equipment to take biology notes and record xeno behavior. Dedicate a pfc as a researchers assistant

5) field hospital construction.

6) set tasks to repair the facility as you move

7) actually splitting up with fire teams for pincer movements.

[DrPng]

Simple be SL/SO and change the direction.

1)put in a request for a research mission to infect a monkey, take a whole squad as an escort.

2) actually take proper flanking manouvers, not bottleneck rushing like everyone does

3) set a recovery task e.x located bravos SL and retrieve his equipment and body for burial.

4) use scouting equipment to take biology notes and record xeno behavior. Dedicate a pfc as a researchers assistant

5) field hospital construction.

6) set tasks to repair the facility as you move

7) actually splitting up with fire teams for pincer movements.

Things like this would make the rounds a lot more wholesome. It'd add to the environment and make things less random then genociding aliens just because you can.

[WinterClould]

Simple be SL/SO and change the direction.

1)put in a request for a research mission to infect a monkey, take a whole squad as an escort.

2) actually take proper flanking manouvers, not bottleneck rushing like everyone does

3) set a recovery task e.x located bravos SL and retrieve his equipment and body for burial.

4) use scouting equipment to take biology notes and record xeno behavior. Dedicate a pfc as a researchers assistant

5) field hospital construction.

6) set tasks to repair the facility as you move

7) actually splitting up with fire teams for pincer movements.

Problem with that is, when you aren't like, an admin, (and even there it takes stupid amounts of work to do often) you can't force people to try and do any of that so most people will ignore you to rambo. As an SL or SO you at best have the power of very very limited suggestion. You can "tell" marines, set up a field hospital, but then your relaying on everyone else to ACTUALLY LISTEN and even then the CMO or CO could refuse to go along with it and ruin your effort. One chink in the chain of command and no one will go along with your ultimately pointless plan when there are more important things to go do in these players minds. Like shoot xenos in a steamrolling push, or if everyone is already getting slashed to death just die.

Few FEW people will take the time to do something almost pointless like try and take research notes and scout the xenos when trying to coordinate something like that would require either a lot of pre round planning, meta comms, or just a ton of wasted time trying to to something that's not likely to work when inevitably a robust xeno notices your trying to do something original and fun for RP and just straight mercs your asses.

Admins get away with it because they can force it though spawning specific people and roles to do it, (W-Y OKC most the time.) or HQ annoncements/faxing the CL that its something he needs to get done, which, only helps a little. CO's announcements won't work since they arent listened to the same as HQ is because people dont fear or respect a CO. They know they're safe from him on the colony while HQ could bannu a bitch from anywhere.

Basically we can't have RP goals because most people are rambos, anything that doesn't lead to a marine major they hate. Just look at Carson, tried orignial crearive strats with uncommon goals back in the day, now everyone either likes him a lot or hates him a lot.

[Heckenshutze]

People must remember this is still a Side vs Side game. Regardless of the RP or anything else in the game, the round ends with one side crushed.

If heavier RP and less "linear" rounds is what you desire you'll have to stick to vanilla ss13. Since the only way to have those here is with admin intervention.


Also, you must realize as well, that, the forums doesn't represent our whole playerbase; And we have players (lots of them) that come here just for that, to shoot and fight.

[WinterClould]

And we have players (lots of them) that come here just for that, to shoot and fight.

Fuck those nerds. /s

[Mann handle]

This is a PvP game with two well defined sides. The amount of RP you can fit in that is rather limited when you're having to run away from a xeno who has thoughts of molesting yourself with very sharp armor piercing claws and a tail that can brain you in a single hit. It's also limited as well when you have jobs to do that need to be done ASAP.

Still as it stands marines really are winning too many rounds that they in theory should have lost, as much as it's ironic of me to say that, it is completely true. So that drains the whole winning side of things when you're playing marine.

Thing is that req nerf? I've not noticed a damn thing, I've only had a couple of rounds where points were an issue. Also that AP stock count? bah means jack shit, as of now marines have been barred from AP and they still win. Marines have had rounds where they haven't ordered a single thing to be dropped in and they still win on top of that. I do notice however that some attachments may need looking into seeing as they are extremely popular; (Barrel chargers (no shit), Quickfires).

What about the comm nerf? Well in the end that turned into a buff that squad leaders are enjoying, in-fact I think most people would agree that touching comms was a marine buff in the end. Sure I still miss the fact that I can't rely on other squads to feed me some info as a PFC but on the whole I don't really miss it in terms of gameplay. The RP from general comms however means that people lost that enjoyment factor.

Right now it's the complete opposite to when hugger combat existed. Now it's marines who keep winning rather than xenos. Thing is I really think the xeno side of things are mostly to blame, I've noticed that there are more really really bad queens. Extremely bad xenos who will run in and die at the first chance they get, almost intentionally at some times (whether that's due to being completely new or not I don't know). The queen herself can escape some things that would normally ruin a queen from last year meaning they just get more cocky.

[Casany]

The only outcome on either side anymore is steamroll. Either Xenos destroy and snowball or Marines destroy and snowball. My favorite part of the games used to be the desperate fighting, the uphill battle. But now it’s based on whoever wins the first battle.

And people say you can play as a command role to change it, but you really can’t. People will do what they want. You can’t control people, the only person you can control is yourself. I went XO recently to test this and gave different orders to each squad. And heck they listened for the first 10 minutes. But then Delta ramboed and no one listened to a single order I gave for the entire rest of the opp.

There’s just no creativity left. People have been saying this ever since 2015 when they did the first major FOB nerf. They took all the chance for creativity out of the game, and any left you get punished for trying. It’s no wonder no one wants to do anything outside the meta. If they do they just get their round ended, or get the entire player sad nerfed.

[Recounted]

It's simple. become SL and change that. I like to use fun tactics as SL, you can too.

Late as hell replying, long story short been there done that and like I mentioned it's not fun being the only one trying to do something fun in a certain role

[Heckenshutze]

In order to improve the RP and to add a "random" effect into the game, old mechanics would need to be re-added. Or add mechanics and stuff from vanilla ss13.

[Kesserline]

I have to admit that when I discovered this game, I was all about the challenge stuff, the rogue-like aspect of it, the RP, the immersion, the feeling of discovering a new universe (Alien universe, was not fond of movies because it's spooky and I don't like spooky things..)

I enjoyed victory as it was rare, tasty, and well deserved for bravery and smart tactics.

Now, victories are waaaaaay more commons. I just take half the squad and flank like a hammer into the Hive, dying or winning. On the RP side : you cannot RP while fighting, that's impossible. You can use small breaks for RP, but it's easier when you're not SL. If you leave too much time to your guys, they are nearly impossible to recover their cohesions and try to make a push when your boys are sniffing glue non-stop for 5 minutes.

I discovered, I mean, re-discovered claymores recently, and I use them like an Engineer would make autism-forts : a way to escape from the linear rounds and playing on my own to not follow the current meta.

I used to wait hours, on deadspec after dying, just to wait the next round. Now, I just switch to another game, I know how it'll end, or it won't surprise me anymore.

For me, the decisive points of the disenjoyment was the Queen overbuffs (just with her charge). The USCM side responded with ultra-try-hardness against it. Either your are stomped by the Hive, either you defeat it swiftly. Remove the Charge, add like 50 to 100% of health pool for the Queen. Make it her like a fucking tank, not like a lightning blitzkrieg-dragster-waaaaagh. (Or make it that her charge consumes 5% plasma per tile charged, or a thing like that).

I'm pretty sure some xenos mains were a bit disappointed by the importance of the Queen. Why would you try your best for the Hive, while the Queen can do twice better than you, at any caste you are in, with still being bald as fuck ?

This game need a Xeno Buff, but not just a simple "BUFF ALL STATS", a true revamp of the key roles. The ovipositor update beginning was awesome, it was the thing needed. Then, it got utterly ruined and spoiled by the overbuffs of the Queen. There is the lore-RP side, and there is the gameplay-side.

_______________________________

Also :

Why not systematically adding a third party on med/highpop round ?

A fireteam of 6 to a full squad of CLF/UPP deploying just 5 minutes before the marines, at 1220. (Mostly on Ice and BR, as those are quite bigmaps)

They can be troublesome for both sides Xenos and USCM and acts as a wild card. Getting rekted, doing great flank, being a good trigger for admin intervention (Objective fulfilled like sabotage or espionage, resulting in additional reinforcements).