On Xenos and names

[ThePiachu]

After playing a few rounds as Xenos, I think the current ways xenos are named could be improved.

Numbered names are somewhat okay, although it might be nice of the low-digit names got higher priority. Say, the starting xenos could have digits 1-9 to distinguish them as the eldest. Then the two digit numbers could be used - most rounds probably won't have 100 xenos in them, so it will save a bit of typing and remembering the extra digit. And yeah, once the two digit numbers run out, roll back into three digits.

I understand why in general we don't want to have players choosing their own Xeno names - the individuality is not really a thing for xenos and you would inevitably get some stupid names after 5 minutes ("I'm Fluffy the Drone"). At the same time, I think the game would benefit from some sort of carried reputation through names that carry over - "Oh yeah, Scar held off a squad of marines as a drone with only facehuggers, he's the xeno", or "I know Slash, he plays a good Ravager, let him".

From what I've seen so far the game for xenos hinges on good players taking T3 roles. It's hard to know who's good or not if you get a different name each time. Similarly, another topic mentioned it's hard to get players to want to play xenos - perhaps it would be more appealing if xeno players could leave some legacy as predator or marine characters do.

So perhaps we could have xeno names be on a whitelist basis? Players would request to be on a whitelist with a short, primal name, something a xeno would understand - Scar, Slash, Rush, etc. If approved, they would get the name to persist in their games, otherwise - they would get the random numbered names per usual.

[Kesserline]

On the gameplay side :
Have you ever been metatargeted/metafocused as a marine ? (Like legitly, not the shit that you were on the frontline and got pounced, I mean, the good shit, the shit that you know that it was you, you all along, the high priority target)

I fear for the xeno wanting a name. Because damn, I'll metafocus the shit out of him, and most of the USCM playerbase will. Even if the guys is a drone, he'll get pursued from LZ1 to Lambda Labs, just to be sure he is killed.


On the RP side :
The only thing I could be cool with is the name is only shown Hive-Side, and not from seenable from Marine-Side. Because, seriously, the poor player will regret the decision of having a customized name. But even if he got a customized name, that would make no sense that the Marine doesn't see it.

Why ? Because it's the Marines that are giving names to Xenos. The marine would name the Xeno, because he is memorable. The Xeno won't name itself, he has no individuality, he is part of hivemind. He has no desire of having a car, founding a family, taking a credit to buy a house, graduating from Xeno University. He has a bond to his queen and must respect it. He just has the little autonomy to do things, but no individuality.

[Dolth]

I like how people talk about possible game tweaks while devs barely give a fuck.

[ThePiachu]

Makes sense that names would only be visible to their respective race.

Marines giving Xenos a name is one thing, but sometimes you have Xenos that shine far away from the frontlines. The drone that works like a hard busy bee, the hivelord that builds epic mazes, or the runner that scouts from the tunnels.

Having names would make it easier to talk about the games as well. If you don't double-check who played a given xeno quickly, you might never know. "Who was that hivelord that facehuggered 5 marines by himself?" asks the marine "Beats me, 234? 634? I'm bad with numer-names", replies the xeno, vs replying "Oh yeah, it was Brute, I remember that guy".

[Dolth]

Honestly when an alien shine as much as you describe, people don't have troubles remembering a dumb 3 digit number. Hence moments we have OOC quoting them or just paying F's.

[AverageSpitter]

I fear for the xeno wanting a name. Because damn, I'll metafocus the shit out of him, and most of the USCM playerbase will. Even if the guys is a drone, he'll get pursued from LZ1 to Lambda Labs, just to be sure he is killed.

Well, It would makes us even, Because seriously, Anyone who has been playing xeno for like a week, already knows people like John Murry or Lisa Taylor are pretty fucked up, And quickly become high priority targets when one sees them. Would be fun to see people like, focus *that* hunter that has fucked them up 4 rounds straight or something.

[Toroic]

On the gameplay side :
Have you ever been metatargeted/metafocused as a marine ? (Like legitly, not the shit that you were on the frontline and got pounced, I mean, the good shit, the shit that you know that it was you, you all along, the high priority target)

I fear for the xeno wanting a name. Because damn, I'll metafocus the shit out of him, and most of the USCM playerbase will. Even if the guys is a drone, he'll get pursued from LZ1 to Lambda Labs, just to be sure he is killed.


On the RP side :
The only thing I could be cool with is the name is only shown Hive-Side, and not from seenable from Marine-Side. Because, seriously, the poor player will regret the decision of having a customized name. But even if he got a customized name, that would make no sense that the Marine doesn't see it.

Why ? Because it's the Marines that are giving names to Xenos. The marine would name the Xeno, because he is memorable. The Xeno won't name itself, he has no individuality, he is part of hivemind. He has no desire of having a car, founding a family, taking a credit to buy a house, graduating from Xeno University. He has a bond to his queen and must respect it. He just has the little autonomy to do things, but no individuality.

Let’s pretend for a moment that names for xenos would ever be implemented in any fashion. The xenos that would take on names are exactly the kind of xenos that aren’t worried about being metatargeted because they already stand out as signficant threats.

Xenos themselves actually are individuals with distinct personalities and varying characteristics like intelligence, but they’re mind-slaved to the queen.

The actual solution would be to let xenos see ckeys via hive status panel so they can see which other players are on in which xeno. This wouldn’t impact what marines see at all.

[Kesserline]

The RP side :

Xenos are just the product of bio-weaponry from the Engineers (or whatever the name of the big lads that are not nice in Prometheus).

The principle of hive-mind deletes all traces of individuality. It's a sci-fi subject of many books and many authors. You can't say hivemind if you accept the principle of individuality among the hivemind entities.

It's like an ant hive. Ants have no individuality, they all act for the Hive, for the Queen. You don't see an ant trying to get a car, or going on a stroll on the beach with his girlfriend, or trying to do some gym to flirt with the princess.

They are controled by chemicals/pheromons. They have a bit of autonomy, but that's it. Autonomy =/= Individuality. Individuality is what makes you the PERSON you are (personality, character traits, freewill, free speech, and so on).

That's still non-compatible.

________________________

On the OOC side, I understand that players want to be recognized, because it's fun, because it's for the ego and such.

I would support xeno names ONLY if they are not shown to marines. Because seriously, you don't fear metatarget ? Hehe. You'll see, days after days, weeks after weeks.

A marine can banzai charge to ensure a xeno kill today ? He'll strap himself with C4 and drag a fuel tank with a gyro shotgun attached to each limb, and naked, to kill a named xeno tomorrow.

On the positive side : Metatargeting is not EVERYWHERE. Because players don't have the time to metafocus a particular player in the heat of battle on the frontline. But it's especially on the skirmishes that you can notice a bit of metafocus. When the killer has the time to see who he is facing and that he enjoys every part of the killing.

______________________

After a few discussions with several players, I accept the metatargeting of marines. As other players said : it's the price for glory. Being recognized/known allows a famed player to have priority triage, having some good shits from RO and such, at the price of, sometimes, getting his ass handed.

That's okay.

But what is the good side for Xenos named ? Just the pride ? The ego ? You don't get extra attachments, maybe priority on being listened to as a xeno leader, but what about the mouthy Xeno that thinks he is the Queen while he is not ? (Same problem that was with the general comms on marine side where PFCs insulted the CO when he gave a single order).

[KingPhilipIII]

The presence of a hivemind doesn't inherently mean no individuality. That really depends on which source you're consulting and how the hivemind operates. Is it one entity with many puppets, or is the Queen the puppet, the manifestation of a collective consciousness?

Closer to termites than to ants, for the record.

I like the idea of notoriety. Don't like the idea of being a High Priority target round after round.

[Kesserline]

hive mind
or hivemind

Examples

noun
1. the property of apparent sentience in a colony of social insects acting as a single organism, each insect performing a specific role for the good of the group.
2. Psychology, Sociology.
A collective consciousness, analogous to the behavior of social insects, in which a group of people become aware of their commonality and think and act as a community, sharing their knowledge, thoughts, and resources:

• the global hive mind that has emerged with sites like Twitter and Facebook.

• such a group mentality characterized by uncritical conformity and loss of a sense of individuality and personal accountability.

The principle of hivemind refers first to a certain part of the biological world, including ant colonies first (and not thermites).
It went after to be used in psychology and sociology, all definitions do not emphasize any individuality, but instead, commonality and/or lack of individuality at the profit of the Collective.

Hive means STRICTLY what does that mean. It's literally the nest of insects, the realm of those insects where no individuality appears and only collective behavior emerges.

___________________________

To link it to the RP-Lore thingy, Xenos are a by-product of bio-weapon-engineering shit. Only 2 desires rule their specie : DEVOUR/EXPAND.

Those two desires exclude, fondamentally, any kind of social institutions, morales, intellectual constructions. Therefore, those elements being fouding elements of our human individualities, giving us landmarks to base ourselves as PERSONS (I decide to be a cunt, or I decide to be a nice dude. I decide to exclude myself from society, or I decide to be more common to fuse with the mass, and so on. The words "I DECIDE" is proper to each individuals, which do not appear in the hivemind concept).

The hivemind concept is : THE HIVE NEEDS. And the entity adapts to the hive needs to fulfill it.

___________________________

The fact that xenos PLAYERS would want notoriety is purely human-motivated (hehe, logical eh ?).

But yep, the price to pay would be the metatargeting (especially in skirmishes contexts) IF the marines are aware of the names. But, I have to admit that it would give HUGE persistence to xeno players, which is actually lacking.

Marines, for example, have the right to pretend they went on previous deployments with other marines, so as to keep the bond between marines.

Xenos can't. And that's probably one of the needs in the xenos playerbase.

[Toroic]

hive mind
or hivemind

Examples

noun
1. the property of apparent sentience in a colony of social insects acting as a single organism, each insect performing a specific role for the good of the group.
2. Psychology, Sociology.
A collective consciousness, analogous to the behavior of social insects, in which a group of people become aware of their commonality and think and act as a community, sharing their knowledge, thoughts, and resources:

• the global hive mind that has emerged with sites like Twitter and Facebook.

• such a group mentality characterized by uncritical conformity and loss of a sense of individuality and personal accountability.

The principle of hivemind refers first to a certain part of the biological world, including ant colonies first (and not thermites).
It went after to be used in psychology and sociology, all definitions do not emphasize any individuality, but instead, commonality and/or lack of individuality at the profit of the Collective.

Hive means STRICTLY what does that mean. It's literally the nest of insects, the realm of those insects where no individuality appears and only collective behavior emerges.

___________________________

To link it to the RP-Lore thingy, Xenos are a by-product of bio-weapon-engineering shit. Only 2 desires rule their specie : DEVOUR/EXPAND.

Those two desires exclude, fondamentally, any kind of social institutions, morales, intellectual constructions. Therefore, those elements being fouding elements of our human individualities, giving us landmarks to base ourselves as PERSONS (I decide to be a cunt, or I decide to be a nice dude. I decide to exclude myself from society, or I decide to be more common to fuse with the mass, and so on. The words "I DECIDE" is proper to each individuals, which do not appear in the hivemind concept).

The hivemind concept is : THE HIVE NEEDS. And the entity adapts to the hive needs to fulfill it.

___________________________

The fact that xenos PLAYERS would want notoriety is purely human-motivated (hehe, logical eh ?).

But yep, the price to pay would be the metatargeting (especially in skirmishes contexts) IF the marines are aware of the names. But, I have to admit that it would give HUGE persistence to xeno players, which is actually lacking.

Marines, for example, have the right to pretend they went on previous deployments with other marines, so as to keep the bond between marines.

Xenos can't. And that's probably one of the needs in the xenos playerbase.

Even if we were sticking purely to the xenomorph lore (which is fractured and contradictory to begin with) and *pretending* that it had some bearing on what CM would do, you are wrong.

In the very first movie that spawned the franchise we have numerous examples of a lone non-queen xenomorph utilizing steath and observation, disarming humans by specifically targeting their weapons and eventually stowing away on an escape pod. All of these demonstrate higher level thinking.

There is nothing about a hivemind that prevents the ability to have individual thought and action, it's effectively a telepathic mesh and could suppress individuality, or retain it for the unique advantages it brings.

More specific to CM, there would be no need for a xenomorph evolution tier based heirarchy as seen here: wiki/Xeno_Quickstart_Guide

if xenomorphs weren't individuals, because if they didn't have varying competence, intelligence, and personality.

Your argument is weak and your inability to grasp the concept has no bearing on whether it exists or not. So please spare me the opinion-based pseudo-psychology.

[Kesserline]

Bro, you start being condescending.

For that, I'll just stop talking to you. I thought we were exchanging ideas and arguments, like normal persons, trying to have fun and constructing a better vision of what would be this subject.

Finally, it looks like you were just growing your ego and you e-penis on a forum discussion, on a 2D space-game community, based on Alien Universe.

[Toroic]

Bro, you start being condescending.

For that, I'll just stop talking to you. I thought we were exchanging ideas and arguments, like normal persons, trying to have fun and constructing a better vision of what would be this subject.

Finally, it looks like you were just growing your ego and you e-penis on a forum discussion, on a 2D space-game community, based on Alien Universe.

We stopped talking about such pointless and relevant things like a 2D fart simulator when you argued that morality, social institutions, and "intellectual constructions" (I'm not sure what you meant by this) are inherent building blocks of an individual.

At best, morality is a noble luxury we try to impose on the impulsive and hormone driven animals we are. It's a skill we can learn, and not everyone does, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the capacity for someone to be an individual.

Xenomorphs in every movie are in hostile territory and struggling to survive. Humans in those situations, particularly soldiers, work together and follow orders. From an outside perspective they look alike, think alike, and act alike. One could think that they have lost their ability to think and function as an individual but it really isn't something you lose. It's a capacity you have if you're intelligent enough, and there's a lot of evidence that xenomorphs are.

We know that xenomorphs are capable of thinking and acting independently, and we know that they can communicate telepathically and are willing to sacrifice their lives to defend the hive and their territory, none of which excludes their ability to act or think as an individual. Humans demonstrate sacrifice and altruism to defend their families every day.

The xenomorphs we have on CM have even more reason to be individual parts of a greater whole as while we can simulate a telepathic link via a global chat channel, we don't know if xenomorphs have an empathetic link that also allows them to share emotions, which is something we aren't simulating at all.

If you're experiencing a particular brand of condescension from me it's because the concept of the xenomorph team as "faceless expendable drones" has been an attitude that has long plagued CM, and it's why while there's a community of marine players who know each other and regularly play together, nothing similar exists on the xeno side.

To perhaps put it in perspective, playing marine is like playing a pvp game with premade teams, and playing xeno is like playing with a bunch of randoms every time. It's not hard to understand in that context why so few people find playing xeno appealing at all.

[AverageSpitter]

Well, Actually, would be cool to have names only other xenos can see, So at least you can develop bonds with other xeno mains and would give xeno players more persistence and encourage more people to play, because the low amount of xeno players has ALWAYS been a problem. I see more pros on xenos having names than cons.

[Toroic]

Well, Actually, would be cool to have names only other xenos can see, So at least you can develop bonds with other xeno mains and would give xeno players more persistence and encourage more people to play, because the low amount of xeno players has ALWAYS been a problem. I see more pros on xenos having names than cons.

Not to mention you could easily just display xeno names or ckeys or whatever exclusively in the hive status which marines wouldn't be able to see, but would allow you to easily not just identify but locate xenos you knew.