Lastest CLF vs Aliens vs USCM round + Admin railroading

[Mvp777]

A round earlier today was CLF vs competing alien hives vs Marines.

For background i was the CLF CO named Adam Lancer with my second in command being a Synthetic named Alexander; the only things the admin told me to do was survive which i interpreted as keeping as many of my troops alive as i can.
Everything's going fine at that point we've gathered some weaponry and medical supplies in body bags from medbay; we head to virology and i order Alexander to set up barricades using the 100 or so metal we got.
Not long after that the marines arrive and make contact, so i'm thinking that the only thing i was told to do was survive right? so i attempt a potential peace or atleast truce with the marines because i know IC and OOC that i'm badly outgunned outnumbered and under supplied + unknown wildlife killing people.

I get a 'voice in your head' message that basically tells me to kill the USCM; at this point i've already healed 2 marines with our autodoc system, i adminhelp for clarification and get told outright that if i don't its a gibbing for me.
Alrighty then... So i order my men to open fire on 2 maybe-wounded marines outside the barricades breaking the fledgling alliance we had despite the fact that they badly outnumber us in every aspect and i know it.

Round progresses further and we're surprisingly still alive and doing decent due to a mixture of barricades plus MAR-4O heavy rifle bullets and the medical synthetic/autodocs we have not many actual casualties due to us being fairly defensive;
At this point my second in command synthetic Alexander offers going to one of the alien hives and offering a truce due to the number of monkeys we have to potentially trade and synthetics are known to be both knowledgeable reasonable and logical + being my second in command so i trust their judgement, so i give the A-OK to that and he eventually comes to an agreement with the Alpha Xeno Hive.

We offer them monkeys and we become allies with each other, at this point we've spotted other Xeno hive attacking us from the cave system, outside of almost getting my head torn off we're doing fine yet still wary of the marines after us.

Eventually a carrier, runner and the alpha hive empress arrives and begins facehugging the monkeys and single captured prisoner we have, everythings good we actually have a damned chance of surviving this mess. I get an Admin message not long after they arrive and am told to break the alliance IE turn on them, So once again i'm forced to do something actively detrimental to my men and my owns health; we manage to kill both the carrier and Empress despite taking injuries when DING DING. Beta hive shows up, mixture of remnants of both the Alpha and Beta hive end up slaughtering the rest of us because the autodocs are useless due to the xenos destroyong the APC. we have absolutely no allies, we're taking accrued casualties, further undermanned and outgunned.

Just to note the ONLY thing i was told to do was Survive, so i attempted to do what would have the highest chance of keeping me and my fellow CLF alive before getting railroaded twice into actions actively detrimental to me and my team which resulted in people getting killed. just to note i would've been perfectly fine with all of this if i was just told that i couldn't ally with the other factions in the first place.

What i'm pointing out is the forced railroading the admins forced on both the USCM and CLF, with the diplomatic CO getting executed and myself being forced to backstab 2 factions that are both much stronger than my own or i risk being killed for it, what is your opinion on such a result? was the admin justified in forcing this? Should've just let the round play out as it was? attempt to influence the results with IC action instead of OOC?



Lastly this is NOT a complaint against any of the staff responsible for the event.

[JennerH]

I think events like this are best left with as little admin intervention as possible. if you were doing something griefy or lowRP thats one thing, but what you did or had in mind to do, if true, was the right decision, and admins should have left you to your own devices. either state that the CLF are gonna be dicks at the start, or let them do their thing. threatening to gib someone is almost adminbus levels in my opinion.

[DriedMilk]

CO here.

I got a HC message saying: "We don't cooperate with terrorists" after I messaged them about the minimal CLF presence when compared to the Xenos. Yes, it was ordered for me to label CLF KoS. I just wanted to try something new because I KNOW that these events just end up senseless murderboning and silly war crimes. My original plan was negotiating collaboration with the CLF since it seems that they were going to get murdered by the Xenos.

In the end, admins interferred and approved my perma a quarter through the round and my execution was approved after such.

All I wanted to do was try something new, but it seemed the Admins dicouraged it heavily even though a diplomatic approach has been done in previous events.

[Mvp777]

I think events like this are best left with as little admin intervention as possible. if you were doing something griefy or lowRP thats one thing, but what you did or had in mind to do, if true, was the right decision, and admins should have left you to your own devices. either state that the CLF are gonna be dicks at the start, or let them do their thing. threatening to gib someone is almost adminbus levels in my opinion.

To clarify again, the only thing i was told to do was SURVIVE. That's all he said, i came to the conclusion that allying with a faction stronger than my own would accomplish keeping me and my men alive, as you can see it got railroaded to nothing.

CO here.

I got a HC message saying: "We don't cooperate with terrorists" after I messaged them about the minimal CLF presence when compared to the Xenos. Yes, it was ordered for me to label CLF KoS. I just wanted to try something new because I KNOW that these events just end up senseless murderboning and silly war crimes. My original plan was negotiating collaboration with the CLF since it seems that they were going to get murdered by the Xenos.

In the end, admins interferred and approved my perma a quarter through the round and my execution was approved after such.

All I wanted to do was try something new, but it seemed the Admins dicouraged it heavily even though a diplomatic approach has been done in previous events.

Story wise me and the others agreed that we CLF went to the colony in answer to the distress signal, but found the aliens instead hence why i attempted negotiations with the USCM.

When THAT was forcibly ended or suffer gibbing my synth offered to attempt an alliance with one of the alien hives. Which i was once more forced to end and subsequently got the rest of us killed.

Felt like the only reason we CLF were there was to just get slaughtered, and we got forced into that.

[Sulaboy]

While CLF are meant to be an extremist group, I don't think high command would order the slaughter of these colonists. I feel like events like these have to speak more about the political side of things. It would have been better to get this small CLF encampment to slowly defect or have some soldiers desert rather then fighting to the death against not only a larger military force but the aliens as well. I feel like a better move would have been to let the CLF and USCM work together, but spawn in additional larva for the Xenos. The real best course of action would have been to give a better IC reason to fight each other, instead of a subtle message. It would have been better to have laid down this rule at the start with some event info about the CLF being truly diehard with the goal of killing as many USCM members as possible.

The event was fun. I enjoyed doing a grand rescue of some wounded and being picked up by the Normandy. I also really liked the feel of mortars raining down on our defenses. INCOMING! *boom* Medic!

[HKO20006]

Alpha hive Rav here. Similiar things happened on Xeno side too. Beta hive and Alpha hive negotiated peace. Beta Rav later came and requested help from Alpha hive, Alpha Rav, Hunter, Runner went to Research to help fight marines as the result. 10 min later Queen Mother messaged there can only be one hive survive, tension mounted and Alphas left as Beta Rav ask us to leave.

[AccointNaim]

While CLF are meant to be an extremist group, I don't think high command would order the slaughter of these colonists. I feel like events like these have to speak more about the political side of things. It would have been better to get this small CLF encampment to slowly defect or have some soldiers desert rather then fighting to the death against not only a larger military force but the aliens as well.

I feel like the Admins decided to launch the event train, only to derail it, crashing into fun town.

[Mvp777]

My biggest issue with all of this was just the horrible amount of railroading forcing everyone to act in a very specific way instead of letting it develop organically.

[Tigroon]

If all this is true, holy shit. I understand that events should have some structure to them. But said structure should allow for the organic evolution that is player choice. So, USCM and CLF are united, CLF has something of a treaty with one hive, and both hives are united as well for a time. Neat. That's some damn good chess play right there. All it would take is the USCM to possibly negotiate with the other hive that had only the other hive as friendlies, and you would have had a nice, organic web of murderboning going on. Each side didn't know who was treatied with who, except for their own partners they were treated with. Alpha hive could have attacked the Marines, who were partnered up with Beta and CLF. Then, Beta Hive and CLF would have had to help the USCM, but little did the USCM know, Beta Hive had a working peace with the Alpha hive, and the CLF had a working peace with the Beta Hive. So each of those two would have had to decide whether to break their truce with one side to double down with the other, cower and hide and hope things ended for the best, with both sides decimated, or even more nuts shit happening.

Instead, the admins jumped in, told everyone no one was allowed to work with one another, and just have a glorified killfest.

The web of intrigue was torn down before it could even be born.

This is the sort of stuff that made Tribes rounds so much fracking fun!

I'm sorry to say, but if this was allowed to play out organically, this could have been one of the coolest rounds in a long time. While its understandable that there needs to be a median of control to assure that things don't go extremely off the rails, with all sides singing ' Koombaya ', and shaking hands/claws/gun-barrels with eachother, this was going mayhap a tad too far in the attempt to keep that from occurring.

[Mvp777]

If all this is true, holy shit. I understand that events should have some structure to them. But said structure should allow for the organic evolution that is player choice. So, USCM and CLF are united, CLF has something of a treaty with one hive, and both hives are united as well for a time. Neat. That's some damn good chess play right there. All it would take is the USCM to possibly negotiate with the other hive that had only the other hive as friendlies, and you would have had a nice, organic web of murderboning going on. Each side didn't know who was treatied with who, except for their own partners they were treated with. Alpha hive could have attacked the Marines, who were partnered up with Beta and CLF. Then, Beta Hive and CLF would have had to help the USCM, but little did the USCM know, Beta Hive had a working peace with the Alpha hive, and the CLF had a working peace with the Beta Hive. So each of those two would have had to decide whether to break their truce with one side to double down with the other, cower and hide and hope things ended for the best, with both sides decimated, or even more nuts shit happening.

Instead, the admins jumped in, told everyone no one was allowed to work with one another, and just have a glorified killfest.

The web of intrigue was torn down before it could even be born.

This is the sort of stuff that made Tribes rounds so much fracking fun!

I'm sorry to say, but if this was allowed to play out organically, this could have been one of the coolest rounds in a long time. While its understandable that there needs to be a median of control to assure that things don't go extremely off the rails, with all sides singing ' Koombaya ', and shaking hands/claws/gun-barrels with eachother, this was going mayhap a tad too far in the attempt to keep that from occurring.

I as CLF CO was forced to make actions actively detrimental to my entire team. I knew IC i was the weakest faction and i still got ordered to damn me and my men to being slaughtered.

Sadly it appears EVERY faction got railroaded, from executing the CO who tried to make peace to breaking up the alien hive alliances.

[AccointNaim]

Well, atleast this event got followed up with the Soyman Commander, Jones the best.

[HKO20006]

When I was helping Beta hive, I was wondering when the fight will break out between the two hives (there were only a few of Alphas but being in Beta hive, so I was worried). I thought of being bodyblocked by Beta (hopefully didn't happened) and how Alpha could profit from helping Beta hive fight marines (have runner capture hosts back to Alpha hive but also didn't happen).

In fact, the peace between the two hives almost didn't happen when both hives found the 10 monkeys at Viro (Beta got there first though), Alpha Queen wanted to share them eqaully while Beta Hunter (I believe the one became Beta Rav) said their Queen was generious and gave us 3 monkeys. Tension mounted of course and at this moment, CLF with guns arrived and broke the situation, the two Alpha Hunter got into the vent while the Beta Hunter stayed at the monkey room.

You don't get these kinds of encounters when everyone is KOS on everyone.

[Mvp777]

When I was helping Beta hive, I was wondering when the fight will break out between the two hives (there were only a few of Alphas but being in Beta hive, so I was worried). I thought of being bodyblocked by Beta (hopefully didn't help) and how Alpha could profit from helping Beta hive fight marines (have runner capture hosts back to Alpha hive but also didn't happen).

In fact, the peace between the two hives almost didn't happen when both hives found the 10 monkeys at Viro (Beta got there first though), Alpha Queen wanted to share them eqaully while Beta Hunter (I believe the one became Beta Rav) said their Queen was generious and gave us 3 monkeys. Tension mounted of course and at this moment, CLF with guns arrived and broke the situation, the two Alpha Hunter got into the vent while the Beta Hunter stayed at the monkey room.

You don't get these kinds of encounters when everyone is KOS on everyone.

I remember that, outside of maybe 1-2 attempted tackles aliens left us alone and left virology pretty quickly.

[Tigroon]

You don't get these kinds of encounters when everyone is KOS on everyone.

I remember once watching a video where, for a round, the admins made it so that the planet was inhabited by Colonists, and there was no threat. That was one of the greatest rounds I have ever seen.

You want to make truly memorable rounds, Admins n' mods? While they take time to set up, rounds like that. Rounds where sides work together against a common foe. Rounds where one sides works with the common foe against the uncommon one. Rounds where the marines land, and EVERYTHING is fine.

Just please. Let people choose. As long as they are not breaking marine law, or shitting things up for everyone, let them lead the story along, and allow it to develop through player input, rather than forceful admin guidance. A nudge here n' there is fine. But nothing like this round again. Please.

[x31stOverlord]

I think the problem with "peaceful rounds" where you team up etc. Is that it might be fun for you if youre involved in the RP. If you aren't and you're just sitting in a building is that well. You're doing just that. Nothing. Whilst it's good and nice for those who like RP, it doesn't benefit half of the playerbase.

The same thing happens in most rounds where adminis try setting up something more "quiet" and slow-paced. Take the UPP infiltrators round. Marines immediately set up fortified positions over the ship with no reason and even had marines shooting MPs when the command staff and admins sent out messages to dismantle fortifications.

Whilst I'd like to see more unusual events and more strategic decisions. Whenever the server has "extended" we have huge in fluxes of people and the newer playerbase/non rpers will just shoot first and ask questions later.

[Tigroon]

I think the problem with "peaceful rounds" where you team up etc. Is that it might be fun for you if youre involved in the RP. If you aren't and you're just sitting in a building is that well. You're doing just that. Nothing. Whilst it's good and nice for those who like RP, it doesn't benefit half of the playerbase.

The same thing happens in most rounds where adminis try setting up something more "quiet" and slow-paced. Take the UPP infiltrators round. Marines immediately set up fortified positions over the ship with no reason and even had marines shooting MPs when the command staff and admins sent out messages to dismantle fortifications.

Whilst I'd like to see more unusual events and more strategic decisions. Whenever the server has "extended" we have huge in fluxes of people and the newer playerbase/non rpers will just shoot first and ask questions later.

On your first point, the majority of rounds that occur is ' Bang Bang, Shoot the Lizards, Oh no we are over ran, run away! '. It would be a rather nice change of pace to actually HAVE a roleplay round once n' a blue moon. Again, the recent round that has occured would have been perfect for it, tensions brewing, sides trying to decide who they draw the battle lines with or against, intrigue as all sides probe the others, trying to get a feeling for intentions.

As for the UPP Inf round, that should lead to a crackdown on the infractors, not a punishment to the players who obeyed in the form of ' Others can't treat thing nice, so you yourself can't have nice thing '. Although, you can't handle half the server at once, so understood on that note. People freaking out that they can't shoot something IS an issue when it comes to CM. Just watch the Req line when High Command denies attachments, tells you everything you need to know.

All I got to say is that things are starting to sorta stagnate. People are starting to notice trends, and with SS13, that is not always a good thing. That is the trouble with CM. It is, in fact, the same sort of round, over and over, with people just in different positions and sides. It's a long-term issue which SHOULD be worked on. And that may indeed include adding in Roleplay rounds to spice things up, alongside Infection and Tribes. But the big thing here is that organic choice via the players still needs to be accounted for, as long as they are obeying server rules, and not being complete shitters about the matter. And admittably, that was skipped over for the round in question. Mayhap, when a round is progressing nicely, no one is biting at the bit terribly much so, perhaps something along the lines of what was forming should just be allowed to form.

[x31stOverlord]

Maybe so. I was not present for the round in question so I can't say much in way of what went on/why the mins got involved.

I was merely airing my opinions on events in general and why they don't always happen. It takes a great deal of effort from the admins involved to run an event and if they had a desired outcome for a round but it was being subverted not for the greater good. They may get involved. We are here to preserve fun for the server in general, if that is only happening for a few whilst everyone else is lost and confused they need to step in then.

[Mvp777]

I think the problem with "peaceful rounds" where you team up etc. Is that it might be fun for you if youre involved in the RP. If you aren't and you're just sitting in a building is that well. You're doing just that. Nothing. Whilst it's good and nice for those who like RP, it doesn't benefit half of the playerbase.

The same thing happens in most rounds where adminis try setting up something more "quiet" and slow-paced. Take the UPP infiltrators round. Marines immediately set up fortified positions over the ship with no reason and even had marines shooting MPs when the command staff and admins sent out messages to dismantle fortifications.

Whilst I'd like to see more unusual events and more strategic decisions. Whenever the server has "extended" we have huge in fluxes of people and the newer playerbase/non rpers will just shoot first and ask questions later.

It's not like everyone was teaming up with everyone else, it would've been CLF + USCM vs Allied Xeno Hives/CLF + Alpha hive vs everyone else including tensions between the allied factions. As i've stated above my only real issue is how their desired result was achieved which in this case was as subtle as being punched in the face by the hulk. It would've been more engaging if we didn't get forced into a certain outcome turning the round it TDM by outright going 'NOPE' and shutting down any attempts at anything not 'SHOOT EM IN DA FACE. The round still would've been fairly action packed but with the additional tension and distrust from teaming with one of the other factions.

Even in spite of everything that happened it was still a really enjoyable event so i'd like to thank the 'mins for it.

[Elcheba]

CO here.

I got a HC message saying: "We don't cooperate with terrorists" after I messaged them about the minimal CLF presence when compared to the Xenos. Yes, it was ordered for me to label CLF KoS. I just wanted to try something new because I KNOW that these events just end up senseless murderboning and silly war crimes. My original plan was negotiating collaboration with the CLF since it seems that they were going to get murdered by the Xenos.

In the end, admins interferred and approved my perma a quarter through the round and my execution was approved after such.

All I wanted to do was try something new, but it seemed the Admins dicouraged it heavily even though a diplomatic approach has been done in previous events.

i was the CLF that went shipside with the synth and that peace meeting was just fucking awkward.

-high command said we dont cooperate with terrorists, but-
-k thats it lol bye

i suppose the synth got a message like the CLF CO, that he was going to get gibbed if he negotiated peace with the marines, but man, it felt forced.

[HKO20006]

On the other hand, I think marines should not truly be peace with CLF but a plot tricking CLF. Marines made peace because they were getting their asses kicked at Research/Engineering and Xeno became the priority and CLF second. Maybe command could have explained to HC that the Xeno threat was extraordinary and the peace was a plot all along.

Much like Xeno to hosts, to them, everyone is just another hosts so Xeno should also eventually break peace when the opportunities arise.

CFL was the wild card here, since they have truces with both sides, they could choose who to fight. The round could have gone:
CLF and Xeno drove marines out the planet then Xeno turn on CLF, either CLF win or lose the planet.
CLF and marines eliminated Xeno threats, marines turn on CLF, reclaiming the planet OR USCM realizes the new threat of Xeno and shift their focus on Xeno, essentially gave CLF a breathing room/unofficial truce.

Imagine the headlines of these space news, a pipe dreams though. CM's endings are always "the struggle of the crews on USS Almayer" but it's not necessarily needed to be last faction standing.

-------

On admin intervening, maybe it's better to ask the stronger faction (marines/hive) to turn on the weaker one, instead of asking CLF. Even though it was the truces were initiated by CLF. CLF proposed truce exactly because they are weak, why would the weakest provoke the strong (just like I immediately went to vent when CLF came to Viro with guns). And give time for both parties to pull out (like the Beta Rav asked us to leave) instead of instant turn on.

[apophis775]

Here's my view on this:

1. You're the god damn colonial marines. You do not negotiate with terrorists or insurgents. Ground forces MIGHT ignore shooting at CLF when engaging Xenos, but not for longer after. Remember, the CLF are TERRORISTS who have been killing the Colonial Marines for years. You wouldn't expect a group of Army soldiers to suddenly negotiate with Al Queda and forget about all the past murdering, kidnapping, and bombings. Not gonna happen. The commander was executed as a traitor (at the request of several of the Almayer's command staff via Fax).

2. You're the CLF. You are literally against EVERYTHING the USCM stands for. They are such an oppressive force that you TOOK UP ARMS against them. You wouldn't just throw them down immediately because there's another enemy nearby. That would be like Hezbolla allying with Israel because Russia was nearby. It might happen for an individual battle, but not on any major scale, and definitely not command authorized. Same with the Aliens. These aliens killed your friends, family, and all the colonists on the planet. You do not want to negotiate with them.

3. There was a non-whitelisted synth in the CLF synth, which was the source of the issues. They abused their ability to global-speak to negotiate with the aliens which is normally frowned upon and unrealistic, especially for a radical terrorist Synth.

4. The aliens have 1 primary goal: EXPAND OR DIE. They don't negotiate. Lucky for them, I was not on because a Xeno Queen agreeing to work with/truce with humans is making a grievous error on their part and something I would have probably Queen-banned them for.


What I expect happened, is that the staff running the event probably did not expect a Synth to abuse their language mechanic in the way they did (it is intended to translate human languages but because of how SS13 works, it unrealistically does Xenos as well), and they probably didn't expect the aliens to go along with it. As a result, they tried to return the situation to the intended path of the event and it wasn't as successful as it should have been.

You might ask as well "If that stuff is how it's supposed to be, why aren't there rules". Bottom line is: We can't make rules for EVERY possible situation, people need to use COMMON SENSE and follow the existing rules and Guidelines.

[Mvp777]

Here's my view on this:

1. You're the god damn colonial marines. You do not negotiate with terrorists or insurgents. Ground forces MIGHT ignore shooting at CLF when engaging Xenos, but not for longer after. Remember, the CLF are TERRORISTS who have been killing the Colonial Marines for years. You wouldn't expect a group of Army soldiers to suddenly negotiate with Al Queda and forget about all the past murdering, kidnapping, and bombings. Not gonna happen. The commander was executed as a traitor (at the request of several of the Almayer's command staff via Fax).

2. You're the CLF. You are literally against EVERYTHING the USCM stands for. They are such an oppressive force that you TOOK UP ARMS against them. You wouldn't just throw them down immediately because there's another enemy nearby. That would be like Hezbolla allying with Israel because Russia was nearby. It might happen for an individual battle, but not on any major scale, and definitely not command authorized. Same with the Aliens. These aliens killed your friends, family, and all the colonists on the planet. You do not want to negotiate with them.

3. There was a non-whitelisted synth in the CLF synth, which was the source of the issues. They abused their ability to global-speak to negotiate with the aliens which is normally frowned upon and unrealistic, especially for a radical terrorist Synth.

4. The aliens have 1 primary goal: EXPAND OR DIE. They don't negotiate. Lucky for them, I was not on because a Xeno Queen agreeing to work with/truce with humans is making a grievous error on their part and something I would have probably Queen-banned them for.


What I expect happened, is that the staff running the event probably did not expect a Synth to abuse their language mechanic in the way they did (it is intended to translate human languages but because of how SS13 works, it unrealistically does Xenos as well), and they probably didn't expect the aliens to go along with it. As a result, they tried to return the situation to the intended path of the event and it wasn't as successful as it should have been.

You might ask as well "If that stuff is how it's supposed to be, why aren't there rules". Bottom line is: We can't make rules for EVERY possible situation, people need to use COMMON SENSE and follow the existing rules and Guidelines.

My intention of a peace was more along the lines of 'We ignore you, you ignore us because giant murder-fuck lizards are killing everything and we have bigger things to worry about and when this blows over we quietly leave and forget this ever happened'

Once more my only issue is how completely non-negotiable it was. If i was told at round start that i couldn't ally with anyone or if i did i would eventually have to turn on them the moment it turned favorable to do so i would've been fine with that.

As i said before the only thing i was told to do was survive, which i took to be my objective; i did actually face some dissent from my own side when i tried to make 'peace' with the USCM.

[Casany]

>add in an underpowered side with the pbjectove to survive.
>have them fight both marines and death lizards on a two front war of attrition
>they wanna survive so they make peace
>’No kill yourselves’.
Marine side
>land and encounter CLF and fight
>realize there is a hive of wasp like lizards which are twice a humans size and take half a clip of explosive tipped M4 ammo to bring down.
>they can also almost instantly kill with huge claws and grow over time to be stronger
>try and team up to face this much bigger threat because it could destroy worlds
>’no fuck you no negotiating with terrorists’.

Look, people have always said nothing unites a population like a common enemy. Look at WWII for example. Roosevelt worked with Stalin even though he hated the guy and Stalin was the antithesis of democracy. But they worked together to destroy a common threat.

It’s unrealistic in any point of view. People aren’t idiots.

[WinterClould]

I gotta agree with the others here. Murder lizards come knocking at my door and I'll team up with my fellow humans no matter our political differences if that's what it takes to survive. It's not unrealistic, it just makes sence.

Who wouldn't turn a blind eye to a small band of terrorists if they help you kill a swarm of murder lizards.
Who wouldn't make a temporary alliance with your sworn oppressors if it means avoiding getting impregnated and murdered by the scariest fucking monsters humanity has ever seen.

I think people forget just how scary xenos are. Our 2d sprites don't do them justice, they just look like angry lizards. In the movies and comics though? PURE NIGHTMARE FUEL. The smallest interactions with xenos leaves a person with ptsd at the least. Most the time though? Endless nightmares. So really no one should be doing anything but shooting xenos, so I can't disagree with the ruling that CLF shouldn't be making deals with them.

USCM and CLF though? Bigger fish to fuckin fry man, they could be able to work out a plan to murder lizards first, subdue or escape second.

[HKO20006]

Reminds me of Aliens' Ripley meeting the Queen scene. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPkMd2nLRzQ
Neither of them talked but they understood each other and went along, until an egg opend, it was a plot all along.
Much like my first encounter with CLF, I take the monkeys, you don't bother me, I don't bother you, for now.