Team Cap on Marines

[LightBeast]

So tonight, Thursday the 26th, the server has 108 players.
Alien team = 12 sisters.
That means marines have 96 freaking players. They won, obviously, and were all excited. *rolls eyes*

Why is there not a hard cap on the amount of marines available? I don't care if you're worried that it would drive people away because 100 baldies want to friendly-fire and throw their machetes as marine, you should MAKE people play Alien. Not only does it make for more balanced and fun matches, you can learn a lot more about the game if you play Alien and I know some of these "marine mains" never do.

I know the game is constantly changing and balance is a very difficult and very fluid thing, and right now the balance seems to favor marines, a bit heavily from my recent experience. But maybe an auto-balance feature would solve some of this? Does anybody really think that if you forced auto-balance it would drive away players? I know in past posts I've read, both devs and veteran players have talked about the difficulty of getting people to play Ayy's (which is an unbelievable travesty, imo) but with how popular this server and mode is, I think forced auto-balance could go over well. If it were even possible, an auto-balance system that allowed players to take a turn on the other team when they wanted would be exceptional-like if the marine team were full, you could queue up as a marine for the next game and it would force people over to ayy's so that players could rotate if they wanted too? I don't even know if that's feasible but just an idea.

Thoughts, folks??

[Weaselburg]

Look, it gets to the point where all the slots for anything is taken and you get a bunch of PFCs with rail-lights, a pistol, a mag or two, and a bayonet. I know what you are trying to say, and if you marine team hits say 80 people and benos have 6, then yes, a autobalance there would work. But nothing very extensive.

[Celestial_Moon]

How often does stuff like last round happen? Not very often i would imagine

[LightBeast]

It happens MOST rounds actually. I play this almost every day and the average amount of ayy players is 15. A mod or somebody will probably have more accurate information, but all you have to do is join xenos and click "hive status" and it shows you how many living aliens are playing. 15 is the average, and I've never seen more than maybe 22-25, ever in my history of playing. That's why the balance issue is so difficult to address and the balance swings a lot with them trying to get it right: alien player count has always been low so they need to buff the aliens to even the playing field.

And Weaselburg it doesn't matter if the special roles are taken-any baldie can join and grab a pulse rifle or better yet a shotgun and start ramboing ayy's all day. It's like the marines are the swarm and the aliens are playing all tactical trying to outwit the marines because there are only 14 of them. It's kind of absurd lol.

[Celestial_Moon]

If you play on low pop then I guess you would find that people prefer to play as marines, but when you get 170 people in the game then you do get filled xenos

[xXen0zS1ay3rXx]

Take a quick look at the top there. See the name? Colonial Marines. Not Colonial Aliens, or Benny's Benos, whatever. Its marines, and marines are the focus as it should be. Currently aliens exist to be killed and provide enjoyment to marine players like myself. Take a quick look through any dev's posting history and you'll see how that keeping the marines the most viable is the current way the server is best as.(spookydonut is a good example, very quickly nerfing hunters after one killed many on the almayer).

Xenos aren't meant to win, why else would they allow only a handful of xenos and 96 marines? It is just how the server is coded, and is meant to be.

[TheRedMenace]

So, my perspective.

While i do agree that curbstomping ayys is quite fun, i dislike the 1hr rounds. Played a few extremely fast CM rounds. If you are PFC, sure, it is fun. If you are command? It is fun. If you are anything beside CiC officer / flight pilot / groundside combatant? You seen maybe two wounded in medbay as a doctor, had no real chance to pester CiC as Liason etc.

I could see the balance tweak to it, but, to be honest i really suspect it would break the game to the level of - unable to enjoy for anyone.

What do i mean?

Add burrowed larva and active larva to the T1 count for purpose of counting slots for T2 and T3.

Then basically no xeno has to be stuck as runner while he can be hunter, there will be way more powerfull xenos in warzone.

But then on the other hand, if you miraculously get 15 players and 50-60 total count with larvas... 5 crusher stampede? 5 boiler bombsquad? 5 ravagers slaughterfest?
That would prove insanely difficult to balance. I found out the hard way what powerstacking of certain T2s and T3 can do to the flow of battle.

[Weaselburg]

Take a quick look at the top there. See the name? Colonial Marines. Not Colonial Aliens, or Benny's Benos, whatever. Its marines, and marines are the focus as it should be. Currently aliens exist to be killed and provide enjoyment to marine players like myself. Take a quick look through any dev's posting history and you'll see how that keeping the marines the most viable is the current way the server is best as.(spookydonut is a good example, very quickly nerfing hunters after one killed many on the almayer).

Xenos aren't meant to win, why else would they allow only a handful of xenos and 96 marines? It is just how the server is coded, and is meant to be.

I want you to consider what the Benos are and rethink this.

[spookydonut]

Xeno numbers scale based on the number of marines and we balance things around this.

[Casany]

If we add in a hard cap all it’s going to do is limit the amount of people who actually play rounds. Xenos aren’t gonna get a sudden influx of players when you force people to play them or else they can’t play. That isn’t what makes people switch. If the xenos side became a lot more fun and creative you’d see a switch. The way to fix the problem isn’t to limit the amount of fun someone can have playing a role they like, it’s to make other roles equally fun. Stop taking CM so fucking seriously it’s just a game.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

"The way to fix the problem isn’t to limit the amount of fun someone can have playing a role they like, it’s to make other roles equally fun."

"Stop taking CM so fucking seriously it’s just a game."

Maybe, some people get fun/enjoyment out of taking the game and its balances or lack of seriously, if looked at this way, then your a hypocrite between them two sentences.Nice.

The numbers dont add up.

[Potato Masher]

Take a quick look at the top there. See the name? Colonial Marines. Not Colonial Aliens, or Benny's Benos, whatever. Its marines, and marines are the focus as it should be. Currently aliens exist to be killed and provide enjoyment to marine players like myself. Take a quick look through any dev's posting history and you'll see how that keeping the marines the most viable is the current way the server is best as.(spookydonut is a good example, very quickly nerfing hunters after one killed many on the almayer).

Xenos aren't meant to win, why else would they allow only a handful of xenos and 96 marines? It is just how the server is coded, and is meant to be.

Looking at your name and past posting history, I can't tell if this is a joke or that you genuinely believe that Marines were fated to win every single round.

[Casany]

"The way to fix the problem isn’t to limit the amount of fun someone can have playing a role they like, it’s to make other roles equally fun."

"Stop taking CM so fucking seriously it’s just a game."

Maybe, some people get fun/enjoyment out of taking the game and its balances or lack of seriously, if looked at this way, then your a hypocrite between them two sentences.Nice.

The numbers dont add up.

Well, I wasn’t commenting on balance. I for one could care less who wins in looses. But if you look at my other recent posts you’d get what I mean.

I’m talking about taking away the linear-ization and adding back creativity to incentivize people to play the roles. People don’t like to be forced to play something they don’t enjoy, but if you add in things that’ll make them enjoy it they’ll play it. Many people who main marine have played xeno a few times and not enjoyed it. So why make those guys give up their time and fun because you care more about which side wins.

The majority of people who play CM don’t actually have a lot of time. I for one can usually get on for one or two rounds, and I wouldn’t want to miss those two rounds because some ‘hardcap’ had been reached forcing me to play a side I know I won’t have fun in because I’ve never had fun in it.

[kroack]

I feel like if more marine players were willing to come over to the dark side we'd have less ridiculous 15 on 90 matches. Less whining about xeno buffs too.

That being said, I can see why xeno is unappealing.

[LightBeast]

Take a quick look at the top there. See the name? Colonial Marines. Not Colonial Aliens, or Benny's Benos, whatever. Its marines, and marines are the focus as it should be. Currently aliens exist to be killed and provide enjoyment to marine players like myself. Take a quick look through any dev's posting history and you'll see how that keeping the marines the most viable is the current way the server is best as.(spookydonut is a good example, very quickly nerfing hunters after one killed many on the almayer).

Xenos aren't meant to win, why else would they allow only a handful of xenos and 96 marines? It is just how the server is coded, and is meant to be.

Lol this is completely absurd and hilariously wrong. Devs have said many times that in most iterations of the game balance and meta, the marines are on the disadvantage and require teamwork to win. The FOB and last-stand type scenarios were the norm in many prior versions of this game, and I'd say that most of the marine players still enjoyed it. There's a real sense of desperation and ultimately accomplishment to winning as the marines, as it should be from all of the films and lore. When you treat the Xenomorphs as you've said in your absurd post, you get gems like the Colonial Marines game that had idiot aliens running at you in single file and dying by the hundreds. That game went over real well, btw. They're Xenomorphs, perfect alien killing machines, not zombies for you to headshot and high-five your buddy. Plenty of other games for that wish-fulfillment.

To the other posts, I can see the argument that if Aliens were more interesting, you'd get more players. I think they're very interesting already and it's really a matter of preference and what people want to play, but there is a conversation to be had about the variety of tasks on either team.
Aliens have queens, drones that build, then ranged, melee, and tank classes. Marines have normal marines that can carry a variety of weapons, changing a bit the style of play, then engineers, smartgunners, medics, doctors, MP's, supply guys, etc.. I know this alone accounts for some of the higher numbers on the marine team and that's something I forgot to mention in my original post.

Maybe a cap on actual squad marines so that the numbers are comparable to the amount of aliens? I know special roles are limited already anyway.

Perhaps it's an idea that wouldn't work and would drive people away, but it's worth the conversation here. Maybe pushing people to play Aliens more, maybe every other round or every few rounds, or definitely try it at least once is all you can do to support more balanced games?

[Gnorse]

The reason I very RARELY play as xeno is because it's shallow as shit.
Most tactics come down to pounce/neuro, tackle, drag, slash.
and if you SOMEHOW get shot, pounce, run, powernap/ask for queenheal, repeat.
See what I mean ? The marine side is much more complex, that's why people want to play it.

[Casany]

The reason I very RARELY play as xeno is because it's shallow as shit.
Most tactics come down to pounce/neuro, tackle, drag, slash.
and if you SOMEHOW get shot, pounce, run, powernap/ask for queenheal, repeat.
See what I mean ? The marine side is much more complex, that's why people want to play it.

This.

Every marine main I’ve ever talked to has said the same thing. They tried once and got bored so they left.

You’ll rarely find a marine main who has never played xeno even once.

[LightBeast]

Good posts Gnorse and Casany--I cannot argue that point lol.
I think the mechanics of the xeno and the very sneaky, tactical way you have to play is intriguing, but with so many shotgun marines that will OHK you if you so much as approach, and now benos feeling weaker in general, the interaction seems quite limited.

It makes me wonder what they could do to make Xeno play more interesting. The recent cool additions of the medevac and the whole 'ceiling' concept get my imagination going, like maybe if the xenos could enter the ceiling in certain areas then drop down in ambush like they did in Aliens, but I'm not sure how that would or even could work.
I'm sure lots of discussions have been had here on xeno play in general.

[DriedMilk]

I was the Commander in this 'rush' round, I only sent 2 squads to the front, Charlie and Delta. I was going to send Alpha but they spreaded out as soon as I gave the order to move out. The push could've been stopped rather easily via flaking as the Marines were only in High-Sec Monitoring or by simply retreating to somewhere else rather than getting stuck inside East Civ Residences, both the North and Sound entrances where left unprotected.

TL;DR: The hive was wiped by 2 squads and failed to retreat and relocate accordingly.

[zoboomafoo]

If aliens are boring for you challenge yourself. Take on groups. Try tactics on groups. Yeah, 1v1ing a marine is a boring spamfest as an alien and is much more fun for the marine until he gets downed.

Trying to pick off a group of 4-6 people is very doable as a hunter or runner, just not all at once. Gotta use them tactics, take it slow, and outsmart the marines. Kinda like what you do as a marine, no?

These are just my thoughts, I know people disagree with me and I do not expect anyone to change how they play or even agree with me. I know that in the end it just boils down to who can click on the other dude better and the marines have a more interactive way of doing that, but I feel like there can be more to it than just click until dead as an alien.

[Bronimin]

That 96 figure includes the dozen that are observing to be latejoin xeno/ moderating and the shipside crew which will always be around 2-3 CIC staff, 1-2 MP staff, 1-2 Engineer staff, 1-2 Cargo staff, 3-4 medical and 3-4 pilot staff.

So more like 75 marines or so boots on the ground higher bound, 69 lower and if you discount the ~2 engineers and ~2 medics from each squad which won't be fighting as much then you have ~57 marines rifles ready split over four squads averaging 14 marines in each. These aren't exactly impossible odds, especially since one squad will almost always be tied down at FOB.

[Szunti]

When I played, xenos were boring except T3, because:
- Melee is totally unreliable, if the target was moving I could never click it. I guess it's because if I move between the press and release of the mouse button it's not registered, if I don't move the target will be away from me by the time I click. I tried a lot of time to train it, but almost no benefit, so I just gave up on melee.
- Runners are hard to control, I could never stop reliably at the tile I wanted.
- Drones are boring imo, I can build walls and sticky resin and some nests for marines. It gets pretty repetitive, nothing creative to do.
- As sentinel/spitter I was most of the time the only one around the nests. Guarding is the most boring task in the game. Devs never cared about sentinels' fun.
- Generally I felt I contributed nothing. If marines were attacking, we either died or T3s killed them. Against defending marines I was mostly useless and just blocking. Sentry, or mines and I can't even get close to the marines. Wouldn't be that much a problem if I could do anything fun else than fighting with marines.
- There was almost no teamwork at all, I could rarely talk to anyone.

I didn't play many times as T3, but they didn't look that interesting either. Ravs spam pounce, boilers spam clouds.

[Jonesome]

When you treat the Xenomorphs as you've said in your absurd post, you get gems like the Colonial Marines game that had idiot aliens running at you in single file and dying by the hundreds. That game went over real well, btw. They're Xenomorphs, perfect alien killing machines, not zombies for you to headshot and high-five your buddy. Plenty of other games for that wish-fulfillment.

The Aliens in the movie were actually portrayed exactly like that: mindless bugs that ran at the marines and were easily mowed down by superior firepower. The only advantage they had was larger numbers. So that’s the one thing the Colonial Marines game did right.

In a way, this game has the exact inverse of the movie. The aliens are heavily outnumbered by mindless ungas who run at them and are easily mowed down, while the xenos have the advantage of superior weaponry. It’s rather ironic.

I think this game would be more enjoyable if there was a cap on the Marine side, say 60 or 70 Marine players max. Xenos would then not be so overpowered, and could be more interesting to play. Players would also take the Marine role much more seriously if it was harder to get, and wouldn’t act like suicidal inbreds. Just a thought.

[Hastati]

Unless CM goes heavily lore breaking, it's impossible for xenos to be as interesting as Marines. Marines can combat and shoot the shit on downtime, play a character, communicate beyond screeching about the tactical situation etc. You also get a sense of cohesion and comraderie that is absent when it's your and Spitter 472.

Taking that away and telling people to play in the side that only has one focus, kill the other team, will not cause people to switch to xeno, it will cause then to go elsewhere. Many people, myself included, have no interest in playing CM as purely a action game, which is pretty much the sole extent of what xeno gameplay is.

[awan]

I would like to see rewards based on teamplay for both sides. So aliens who's abilities compliment eachother instead of each alien being unique. Same for the marines. Working together should be rewarded.