Should we have some kind of sub-whitelist mechanisms for baldies?

[Lukey111]

Came up to my head in another post, should we do something where they have to under go like... maybe for SO, you have to make a small application to show you know how to play it in order to actually 'play' the role. And if you are not and you select it, you would be some kind of apprentice. You would have a low rank and power, but able to witness how to play the job. We could do this for a few important jobs and not make it that hard to apply, I have no clue how that would happen though. Any thoughts?

[Weaselburg]

I think we should have a ¨tutorial¨ server, where baldies can learn the ropes of each job.

[Sneakyr]

This has been suggested and suggested again. The golden argument that always rallies against these is:
"Whitelisting it will make it harder to learn, and even if it doesn't there will just end up being less of (role) anyway." We can actually see the validity of this argument with Commanders - XO basically became the new commander, and I believe that the "junior (role)" will just end up becoming the new (role). While many, many moons after the CO whitelist was implemented we have a fair enough amount of them so that we at least see them semi-regularly, there was a long, LONG period of time where a CO was incredibly rare. Even still, many rounds go by without one. Before you go any further with this, probably ought to think up a good counter to that.
As for a tutorial server, this has also been suggested time and time again - and never seems to come to fruition. I can't remember the stance on it, but I believe it was well received if too difficult to do. Note: my memory on that one's foggy, so it may be incorrect.
I'm not expressing any opinions in here.

[Gnorse]

Maybe some sort of timelock ?
Playing at least two rounds before being able to play SL, for example ?

[Weaselburg]

Maybe some sort of timelock ?
Playing at least two rounds before being able to play SL, for example ?

Yeah, a lot of other servers has that on. You should have to play marine/cargo tech/maint tech for a hour before all the other roles opening up.

[Lukey111]

Yeah, the tutorial server would probably be a lot of work, and all kinds of griefing and stuff.

We should have either a new set of jobs that are apart from the other jobs (Junior SO, Junior CMP).
Or, we could make 1 new role called apprentice. They would then get a PDA where they select the job for it and they have to help doctors or MPs (whatever role they chose). The person they are helping/head would have to give them a point if they genuinely helped out in that branch. And they might have to get 5 or 10 points to be able to be MT and MP, then the current head would have to select a person that did the best to get promoted to the head (they would have to get a number of points too). maybe you could only have 5 apprentices in a round?

[ThePiachu]

An "apprentice" role might not be too bad, or at least some sort of indicator of "hey, I'm new to this and I DO want to learn". I, for one, would use that so people would rage a bit less on me for not doing my job like a pro .

You'd definitely want to limit the amount of people playing this role though, otherwise you might have some grey tide.

In a perfect world we could perhaps have some sort of experience indicator next to character, like little XP markings in RTS for units. Those indicators would be bound to the account and specific to a given role / type of role (MP and CMP, medic and CMD, cargo tech and RO, etc.). The more you play that role the more XP you get and it shows on your character. Perhaps you would see it if you'd toggle your headset HUD or something...

[Aestel]

Trial by fire is the best way to learn. If you are doctor, just have a tab with the surgery/chem guide. Do doctor first, then medic as there will be less pressure to perform. Same with SO>XO, or MT>Engineer. The wiki on the server is actually quite well filled out, and only very little is left out.

Battlefield strats for SL can be picked up by doing any combat role as the "meta" tends to be close enough each round. I could get behind a timelock of a few hours played for SL/Command roles though as a few hours is only a few rounds typically.

[Mann handle]

Trial by fire with the wiki open is the only way to play. Play doctor? have surgery, medical and maybe chemist if you're feeling brave. Playing MT? Play with the wiki open on engineering and construction.

Time locks don't work because time is not a substitute for actual experience with a role, all you do is push the problem further down the line.
White lists don't work because people will NEVER learn the roles, not to mention how much of a contest it is right now with our current white lists apps and the time it takes to process them.
A tutorial server requires setting up and is NOT a good way to learn the actual game. With the tutorial most likely passing on only the bare basics in a game that is never the same twice in a row (so to speak) and rapidly changing during rounds.
Apprentice roles are the prerequisites to the heads of a department, we already have them. IF they don't know something in their area of choice, we have mentors and a mostly helpful player base who can assist via PMs or LOOC, heck I've done it IC before.
Also the points system for apprentices could mean that some people will get left out as a round spirals out of control or the one handing out points forgets to do so. (Not to mention that some people are extremely strict or lax meaning that the points will have no real value at the end)

[Tetrino]

I could see a timelock alleviating the problem because it would force people to witness how the roles work from the eyes of a marine for at least the single round before they try hopping into it themselves. The most egregious examples of cluelessness you see are people who are probably literally first-time players who may think 'oh Staff Officer must be like the Head of Personnel' and so forth.

One round as a Squad Marine is all anyone needs to see how a round usually unfolds, the basic controls, and what most of the roles do. A Junior apprentice tag on roles would just promote lower standards and be redundant in a number of cases. Junior CMP? That might as well be a regular MP.

[NethIafins]

Jobbans? Appeals?

[Fcanau]

I feel like any sort of tutorial server with relaxed rules would just end up as a place for the cool kids to meme and be shitters on.

I dont see how people being bald is a problem unless you are looking at the game with a minmaxing attitude where winrates are all that matters and it always baffles me when people with that mindset choose to play ss13 of all games

In the Aliens movie the marines had a bald SO, bald PO's, were themselves generally unrobust and died to a man while we had fun watching. And then when the occasional flawless marine win happens its actually fun instead of boring.

[Cooliecan]

How about having actual ranks other then pfc for the standard marines to help differentiate between the more experienced and newer players. Then SL's know what they're working with. If you wanted to keep the system simple you could base the ranks of playtime. And if you wanted to take it next level base the rank off kills, constructions, weapons proficiency at missions completed.

[Lukey111]

I feel like anything like this could go extremely wrong, or could be extremely beneficial. Also, anything like this would take a lot of work...

[Heckenshutze]

Trial by fire is good enough to shape up the baldies.

Either do your job right or get roasted IC and OOC. Wiki is sufficient enough to do any job properly, command roles are for people who has been playing for some time already, even if you made a tutorial about it a new guy couldn't properly command.

[Gnorse]

While I do somewhat support the whole "earning rank by playtime", It would mess up some parts of the game.
Imagine a LCPL Squad leader leading a full on SSGT/MSGT Squad. It just wouldn't work out.

[ComradeCorbyn]

While I know this won't really ever work due to the devs not going to do it, but perhaps apprenticeship roles could work. For instance, in Almayer medbay, you could have a Medical Resident who assists and observe the Doctors and CMO, possibly help cleaning up medbay lobby and that stuff. For MP's, have a Security Cadet role where they can watch and help, and do jobs like manning the checkpoints. For command, we could use Junior officers or Officer Cadets, who would help Lieutenant's and the Lieutenant Commander, aswell as the Commander.

It's an interesting idea, but it would require a lot of work by the devs and alot of work by the Community to help teach these roles how to play the role. Not one general "assistant/cadet" role, since that will inevitably end up with greytiding and makes no sense lore-wise, other then crewmen I guess. Thanks!

[Loco52]

Trial by fire is good enough to shape up the baldies.

Either do your job right or get roasted IC and OOC. Wiki is sufficient enough to do any job properly, command roles are for people who has been playing for some time already, even if you made a tutorial about it a new guy couldn't properly command.

+1

[Lukey111]

While I know this won't really ever work due to the devs not going to do it, but perhaps apprenticeship roles could work. For instance, in Almayer medbay, you could have a Medical Resident who assists and observe the Doctors and CMO, possibly help cleaning up medbay lobby and that stuff. For MP's, have a Security Cadet role where they can watch and help, and do jobs like manning the checkpoints. For command, we could use Junior officers or Officer Cadets, who would help Lieutenant's and the Lieutenant Commander, aswell as the Commander.

It's an interesting idea, but it would require a lot of work by the devs and alot of work by the Community to help teach these roles how to play the role. Not one general "assistant/cadet" role, since that will inevitably end up with greytiding and makes no sense lore-wise, other then crewmen I guess. Thanks!

Yeah, this is basically what I am talking about