Complaint Against Staff Member

[Hippie629]

Your Byond Key:Hippie629

Your Character Name: Fenix Ramsy

Their Byond key:z a n e b o t

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central Us Time for best results): 11:30

Which Staff Protocols (viewtopic.php?f=57&t=5647) were broken:
Do not abuse your power.
Enforcement of the rules.

Description of the incident: I was Playing a Charlie Engineer. I was with the rest of Charlie, in the Canteen eating with the squad after Evacing the planet. Then I lost my connection, so I closed and reopened my sever screen. The game loads back and a doctor is stripping me, I try to talk to him but he starts running with some of my gear.
I didn't get his name so I sent a message to the admins, they told me it was an IC Problem and to take care of it myself IC.
So I tried to call the SL he was busy, and I couldn't find an MP. So I headed to medbay to try to get my stuff back. I looked around couldn't find it, saw a doctor that might have been him. Thinking that this doctor was going to run again, I tried to weld him in, Saying(Approximately) "I welding this door until you give me my stuff back".
Then a Researcher without saying anything to me IC or LOOC, injected me with an Anesthetic and threw me into a cryo tube.
I couldn't contact the Admins, so I just waited until I regain consciousness. When I did I tried to get away yelling "Researcher drugged me and the doctor stole my stuff" and I grabbed my gun one-handed, a Researcher was there trying to grab me. So I assume it the same one, and I try to hit him with my active hand which was my gun hand by mistake.
whoops.
Well before I could say anything, he pulled out a SMG and started to fire at me. And on reflex I shot back, and he continued shooting.
Well thinking that the medical staff was corrupt and was trying to get away with stealing my gear.
That and the other medstaff wouldn't heal me, If he shot me unconscious (if I hadn't shoot back) because they would only be able to hear the Researchers side of the story. So I shot back, trying to defend myself IC. He was next to two other players who he shuffled moved into my fire.I couldn't tell him apart from the MT standing next to him as I still had my welding goggles down and shot him by mistake.

The Researcher then ran off. when I found out that I hit the other players, I said sorry IC and told them what happened.
The Alamo was coming up and I received a message from Zanebot asking why I was shooting people in medbay I told him in a rushed manner I got kidnapped by the researcher.
Then I told him what happened and he then asked me "do you know about our escalation rules?" I said "no not really" trying to figure out what he was talking about, because I don't know of any "escalation rules". Then he said not knowing the rules wasn't an excuse and was giving me a 3 hour ban for "improper escalation". I asked him which rule it was and he said it was Marine rule #1, which is not called escalation it is called Lethal Force, nor does it have the word escalation in its description. So figuring out it was Lethal Force he was talking about, I try to give a him my RP reason for breaking it, in that my character thought he was being kidnapped. He then told me that the medstaff said I was NOT being kidnapped and was I just shooting the medical staff. He then said if you think I abused my powers then report me, I said ok then.
Then the prompt for the ban popped up, saying I tried to weld medical doors shut because "no one would listen to him." Doctors gave him an anestic to knock him out. After waking up he then took out his SMG and shot up medbay hitting 3 people...
Welding medical bay doors was only done because I tried to resolve the problem IC which was what I was told to do and I couldn't get any help in IC or out. If me welding them was not ok because "no one would listen to me" then it should not be ok for the Researchers to inject me, when apparently "no one would listen to them" nor should the doctor try and steal my characters gear. The researcher had the SMG I had a rifle, and I was only trying to shoot the researcher NOT the other two players.

Zanebot seemed to have banned me based only on the fact I broke Marine rule #1 Lethal Force, Even though the rule says you can attack other humans if you have an RP reason, which I did.
I was following Marines rule #3 by contacting the admins when there was no MPs, and was told to handle the problem IC. which I was doing.
I was trying to follow rule #7 No Griefing
by trying to RP with the medstaff by talking to them IC, (instead of just walking in and shooting them) who were not RPing with me.
any attempt at talking with the medstaff had no response.
I could not get in contact with the Admins as the Admin help option was not working.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):https://imgur.com/a/nZYGnpL

How you would punish the accused: What ever would be suitable for a staff member using the wrong terms for rules while telling the player to learn the rules and for telling a player who was told to take care of things IC, then banning him for trying to.

[Jerkface00]

Hello. I don't know the details of your story and I'm not all that inclined to comment on how valid your supposed excuse is, except to point out that you shot the shit out of me and I was uninvolved with whatever beef you had with the researcher or whoever else. In fact, prior to your attempting to kill me the only interaction we had was me healing you. I pulled you out of cryo, removed all the ailments you had, woke you up and said "you're good to go". You then screamed "Help medbay is trying to kidnap me", whipped out your gun and started shooting at me, breaking my arm and head/giving me brain/eye damage, then started firing wildly in the middle of medbay full of assorted wounded people, and I assume the researcher as well.

That you attempted to kill me - which you did, because I ran into the medical storage room, and you tried to enter and were firing into the room containing ~only~ me - suggests to me that you genuinely had no idea who it was you were shooting at if you were doing as you say and "defending yourself". The only reason you failed to kill me was someone else started shooting at you and you were forced to either eat their rounds or move.

So, yeah. You attacked at least me with lethal forced unprovoked, either due to negligence, mistake, or malice. Normally I wouldn't think any of those justify you, but as I'm technically involved in the incident my thoughts should not be considered and I won't speak as to the validity or otherwise to the rest of your complaint.

[Bancrose]

I ran by the medbay and saw this live.

"You're good to go man!"

"HELP PLS MEDBAY KIDNAPPING ME!"

*Unsheathes his M39*

Unload said m39 into Xiphos Volund.

Bro what did you was stupid. Reporting the staff member for shooting a doctor that is literal griefing, The entirety of Deadchat at the end of the round was confused at why you even opened fire on a doctor that just finished fixing you up. Literally woke you up, didn't take or steal any of your stuff, And he tells you that your 100% good to go and you can keep playing the game. You just decide hmm "I'm just going to shoot this doctor because I was kidnapped". You should just say sorry now man.

[Hippie629]

I apologize to any one I accidently shoot.
I was the one being griefed and I had a rifle, the researcher had the SMG.

[Jerkface00]

I apologize to any one I accidently shoot.

Shooting at someone who is part of the USCM as a member of the USCM who is not actively shooting at you is not a valid target.

An accident is when you're aiming for a valid target and shoot an invalid target by mistake due to you or your target or your mistaken target moving in an unexpected way.
An accident is when you're priming a grenade to throw at a xeno, and you get stunned dropping the grenade at your feet blowing up your friends instead.
An accident is when you pick up a weapon and then misclick on your screen and fire it off then go "holy fuck my bad dudes".

Not an accident is when you scream "Halp X is doing Y" then pull your weapon out and grab with both hands before firing.
Not an accident is when you fire at the same target repeatedly striking that target multiple times when there is no valid target for you to shoot at.
Not an accident is when your target flees, you pursue* the target, and then fire some more at it.

To accidentally shoot someone, you'd have to not intend to fire, or to fire at the target in question.

I don't accept that you didn't intend to fire in general, and I don't accept that you didn't intend to shoot at me in particluar.
I would accept that you MISTAKENLY shot at me.
I would accept that you NEGLIGENTLY shot at me.

I don't think that mistake or negligence would support your argument against the staff member who applied your ban however.

Anyway I'll leave this topic at that because once again, I was technically involved in this and my opinion should not have bearing on whether or not the complaint against zane is valid or otherwise.

[awan]

You got a very short ban because of behavior we do not want.
We do not want people shooting up players on the same team for an improper reason.

Using lethal force against someone without proper ic reasoning is against marine specific rule #1.
Is that the part you disagree on?
Because a staff report is to be used when a staff member violated procedure/abusing their power not because you disagree with you breaking the rules.

So if it is counted as a rule break.
The punishment for that can be a 3 hour ban that is 100% justified here.
And then zanebot did nothing wrong.

[Blitz Muller]

If this is the round I think it was, I was an MP and we had like 3 other MPs that round. We were pretty busy, but coulda have easily dealt with a theft case. Did you even bother to radio for MPs? or swing by the brig?

Also the rules are pretty clear about using lethals when shooting fellow humans. When you got pinged you should just apologised. I've escalated improperly before and gotten into trouble for it, and I ate the temp ban. You shoulda just apologised and left it at that.

[TheMusician321]

Awan summed it up, if it were up to me I would have banned you for a full day, you whipped out your gun and unloaded it into a doctor who was trying to help you and you got off lightly for it.

[Karmac]

The other issue here is the guy stated he hasn't read the rules.

So I don't know how this could ever have been a valid report if he didn't understand what was and was not acceptable behaviour.

[awan]

Well, Ill write down my full opinion on what to do with this.
1. Do not punish Z.A.N.E.B.O.T.
They did not abuse their powers. And were enforcing the rules imo.
And they did follow the 6 steps outlined as procedure.
2. Urge the player who made the report to read the rules again.
They did break them and should be aware of them. I do not think another punishment should be applies because the case got handled and people should be able to voice their opinion/appeal choices made by staff.

[z a n e b o t]

So I'll just go ahead and give my side of the situation.
It was a very hectic round, infact there was a full on mutiny going on and I was the only moderator left on after stripe got off. I received an Ahelp that someone was shooting in the medbay followed by multiple attack logs. I asked you if you knew the rules and you replied that you did not. Big red flag. So, I explained the situation on my part, the rules you broke and you decided to try and argue with me. I had a lot of other ahelps to deal with, so I made it quick. I applied a light ban. In the future, if you don't know the rules don't try and argue about it, just listen to what the staff has to say. I even gave you a very light ban when it could have been a lot longer.

The main thing here is you still don't understand the rule you broke. The ONLY reason you should be shooting at someone else with lethal force, especially in medbay of all places, is if you are being met with lethal force. Of course there are different situations where it could be acceptable like events or through RP, although this was not an acceptable reason.

[slc97]

I'm going to go ahead and mark this as resolved.

I don't see any discrepancies in how Zane handled the situation. You, however, preformed unacceptable RP. Jumping out of a cryo tube guns blazing is not a proper response to almost anything that I can think of.

We are not going to be imposing any extra punishment on you at this time, but you need to go read our rules very carefully. Your punishment this time was very lenient, but it likely won't be next time.