Job Slot Scaling Feedback thread

[spookydonut]

Please post any constructive feedback you have about the new jobslot scaling.

This includes SO, PO, MP, CT, MT, Doctor, Researcher, Squad Engineer and Squad Medic scaling.

As of now the lower and upper limits for these jobs are;
SO 2-5
PO 2-4
MP 4-8
CT 1-3
MT 2-4
Doctor 3-6
Research 1-2
Squad Engineer 2-3 per squad
Squad Medic 2-4 per squad

I won't reveal the formula for how they scale, I'm mostly interested in where you feel there are not enough slots or when you feel there are too many slots and players have nothing to do.

[taketheshot56]

Last round, Its very annoying to not have four SOs and full squads. Id like to see it bumped up to 4 minimum and scaled from there.
CT is also a hassle, should be minimum capped at 2

[BluntForce420]

SO limit should be 4 at the least, solely so the XO can concentrate on the operation as a whole instead of having to manage a squad on the side. PO should have 3 at the minimum, so that 2 POs can be on CAS to operate medevacs/fire CAS optimally. CT should just be at 2, so that the RO can manage orders (aka bitch at the tank crewmen for wanting everything + the kitchen sink) and the backroom while the CTs handle the front end.

[DriedMilk]

CTs should start with 2 by default, due to the mass needs of Unga the marines always have, also eases the RO from doing tasks that CTs should be doing such as gathering ammo/crates.

SO could also be raised to 3, meaning that if a CO where to join, and there was a XO, all consoles could be manned respectively assuming the XO mans one.

[Bancrose]

4 Minimum for PO's for 2 per Dropship would be nice.
4 Minimum for SO's so that I don't have to force myself or the XO onto a console if I only get two.
2 Minimum CT's so that XO and CO don't have to waste the early time in a round giving out attachments if we only have one RO or one CT.

You should not force the players to play something else if its lowpop.

The rest are not that big of a deal tbh.

[spookydonut]

So the threshold for getting 4 SOs is too high? Alright.

Minimum reqs will have is 2 (1 CT, 1 RO) at low pop.

4 pilots in lowpop is a huge meme and generally causes issues from what I observed.

[Retrokinesis]

SO: this is the biggest issue I've seen so far and the one that needs to change. There should definitely be four at minimum. While the XO can technically run overwatch for a squad, they're about as likely to actually do it as the CE so three SOs means a squad goes without overwatch. Especially since the XO is usually expected to have all squad comms on and so the squad they're overwatching could easily get drowned-out. And I've never seen a CO do full overwatch. Losing the ability to send the fifth SO down also hurts.

PO: I'm actually sort of fine with there being two of these. Neither dropship really needs a copilot to function, though it does mean they're severely impaired by one of the POs being new or bad. Three is probably a safer number.

MP: totally fine. It seems to be pretty rare that all roundstart MPs are filled regardless, except in highpop.

CT: there really should be two of these minimum. The RO having to run one of the lines happens sometimes at lowpop but it makes getting tank parts and such ordered a living nightmare, and gives them very little time to get common things like webbing and machetes out for the CTs, which makes everything take even longer than it should.

MT: I need to watch this one more carefully to see how the OB changes affect it, but my very initial thought is that two is probably slightly too few. Especially if there's no CE that leaves one for the tank and one for the OB, with neither handling the engine up front. It could also mean people who go MT in order to do ship projects are essentially "wasting" a slot that now has a significant number of mechanical functions.

Doctor/Researcher: three doctors is too few for a job that is very popular with latejoiners. I'd go with four at minimum so there's one for each OR. The CMO is often too busy doing other things to perform back-to-back surgeries and, while you could have a researcher run chemistry, I've found they very frequently have no intentions of doing anything useful ever and shouldn't be counted as doctors despite being able to do surgery.

Squad Engineer: I'd be iffy about only two per squad with the current point costs being what they are. That's going to leave squads with relatively minimal materials and put even more strain on an already-drained req department's points. Probably safe if point costs are changed or engineers are given more free materials, though.

Squad Medic: on one hand, two is probably fine for lowpop. On the other, medics are so essential to keeping the marines going that I would always err on the side of as many as possible.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Last round we only had 2 SO's Well we had three, but one decided to AFK and not come back till the end.

XO which was me had to juggle XO duties along with providing overwatch on two squads. Granted it can be done, but it doesn't give an XO a chance to do any RP or if the Captain leaves the bridge you have to take over along with listen to both squads. I can multitask fine with the best of them, but I feel other players put into this position would crumble.
So yeah I believe a minimum of 4 would be best.

[x31stOverlord]

Eh. If you as an XO can't handle an OW console and run the operation you shouldnt play XO. There are plenty of rounds I've seen and experienced myself as XO where I've been the only one in the CIC and had to OW all squads at once. It isn't preferable but entirely manageable.

I think on lower pop times 3 SO slots minimum should be available and then scale up from there. Just because the slots are open doesn't mean someone will fill it.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Eh. If you as an XO can't handle an OW console and run the operation you shouldnt play XO. There are plenty of rounds I've seen and experienced myself as XO where I've been the only one in the CIC and had to OW all squads at once. It isn't preferable but entirely manageable.

Like you said it's not preferable, and doable. But I think in the preferred world would be at least a minimum of three SO. FOB squad doesn't need much OW if there is one.

[spookydonut]

If there's people AFK in important roles you should ahelp it.

I guess the bigger question is during low pop would having 4 SO slots actually end up with 4 SOs or would the extra slots just be empty?

[Retrokinesis]

I'm not sure it actually matters, really? Giving latejoiners more options certainly isn't a bad thing. It's not like a fourth SO is going to go to waste in the same way a fourth PO or sixth doctor often feels like it is.

I've been observing a lot since the update and noticed that it has frequently been impossible to get latejoin SO and very hard to get my usual standbys of latejoin doctor or medic. There have been rounds where the only latejoin options were MP, squad engineer (which seems to be weirdly unpopular as of late), or PFC.

This is also assuming that everyone present is not SSD, at least semi-competent, and that there's a department head to be an extra person as well. Lower caps means departments are more affected by not having a head or people going SSD than before, which is definitely a possible-to-likely scenario in lowpop rounds.

[Renomaki]

I think we can all agree that, at the very LEAST, we should have a minimum of 3 SOs on deck.

Any less than that and it puts a lot of pressure on the command staff. Having 4 SOs is always nice, having 3 SOs can be fixed by assigning an XO or the synth to one of the computers, but having only 2 officers?

I had a round where midway into the round, all I had WERE 2 SOs on deck. We used to have a full 5, but for some reason Bravo's SO went missing, and Delta's SO was such a lazy idiot that I had him arrested for neglect of duty, and our 5th SO was planetside. In the end, all I had were two SOs manning Charlie and Delta, which left me and my XO to have to bumble between Bravo and Delta as they screamed for requests ALL THE WHILE having to deal with shipside matters that made focusing on the mission so much harder.

Having a full staff of officers allows the CO to focus on leading the operation and the XO to take care of various shipside tasks so the CO himself doesn't have to get distracted, this being more important considering how many marines the command staff has to juggle these days.

As for other areas, I think we should always have at least 4 doctors at minimum by default, one for each OR, and a max cap of two CTs, since we don't need more than two to really operate cargo. Other than that, I'm ok with the rest of these settings.

[WinterClould]

4 SO's because having less always sucks ass and being locked out by pop sucks ever harder. Even if the slots don't get filled it's better that they "could" be filled rather then not, because command is hard.

1 CT and 1 RO works fine enough. Orders can wait because fuck people who need orders tbh. (Not joking they can seriously wait it's lowpop so chill, giving out attachables shouldn't take long)

2 PO's is all you'll ever need during any population. 4 sucks and 3 is iffy because you can solo cas/medevac and don't need a 2nd on transport ever.

A single mt and the CE can do everything they could ever need to do on the ship, probably, maybe not now with the OB system but they have time to wait on that.

Researchers are pointless and we all know it.
Doctors being 3+CMO is cool.

MPs suck dick so fuck those guys, so whatever ya feel work.

Two of each medic and engis in each squad is solid and has always been. Solid. Just don't be afraid to make the cap raise faster, bad players will always fill most of those slots so it really isn't a massive game changer to have more baldies wasting those slots.

Didn't miss anything did I?

[Bronimin]

I have always felt in the past that three CTs is too much, two CTs is sometimes too many after the attachments queue there really isn't much for those guys to do. Especially these days, where the RO will run out of points super fast and then the CT is left picking his nose or worse, being forced to recycle SMGs for metal or dismantle briefing chairs.

[I_Solve_Practical_Problems]

I think 4 SOs is mandatory even in the lowest pop because they're not tied to server population, but to the number of squads. It doesn't matter if you've got 90 people on the server, or 200, you'll still have four squads that require very different and specific needs. A good SO can double-task, but the effectiveness of both squads is heavily reduced as OBs are even more delayed, orders from req are more likely to be messed up, and the attention each squad gets is cut in half while the SO will feel very stressed and more likely to make a mistake. Even with three SOs, the XO is still a poor substitute for that fourth SO because they have their own obligations which just puts further strain on the XO and CO in managing the ship and ground situation. Having less than four SOs and requiring the XO to take an OW console also reduces RP potential since everyone is too busy working overtime to talk to survivors/CL or deal with situations on the ship.

I do think scaling the 5th SO to server pop is a good solution though. 4 SOs is really always necessary for what I would consider an effective CIC, but the 5th SO is only really useful in high pop.

[Szunti]

I agree with minimum 4 SOs. When I have to watch multiple squads, I often just forget one and follow only the other with cameras. When they ask for button pushing I can go back, but it's not enough. SLs are often in fight, they can't tell orders to their squad and report to command the same time. SOs have to report to the commander. And there is a huge difference between commanders who are uptodate and the ones who have only info after the fights. I think my constant reporting sometimes helped commanders to order retreat in time and not after everyone died or fall back already. But I can monitor only one squad with that resolution.

The acting commander has so many duties, everyone want to talk with him and ask his opinion. He should also discuss his plans with the SOs. There is a high chance something will happen that will require his attention (eg. all req staff disappear) especially in low-pop.

[Cry of Wolves]

having 2 SO implies a heavy reliance on having both the CO and the XO available which may not happen at all due to either not having a whitelist or lack of confidence in taking up the leadership mantle.

ideally would be 4 but optimally would be 3. 2 SOs is just not enough.

[spookydonut]

There's some changes pending

[Arbs]

SOs would need a limit of min 4-5 max if anything.

Getting SOs for all squads is generally a hassle in it's own during lowpop, no need to make it even worse by technically limiting it. And generally speaking every LT/SO has their own squad to manage. Correct me if I'm wrong but that's how it's supposed to work with SOs.

We need a minimum of one SO for each console. So that the XO actually bothers with planning and coordinating instead of babysitting squads. In fact SO might as well be a fixed number irregardless of pop as it's been so far.

[Hughgent]

So long as its CMO + 3-6 doctors i'm more than happy with the Medbay staff.

[Rohesie]

Most of the diminished minimum limits don't make much sense to me. What harm is it in having 5 or 6 doctors during lowpop? If I'm on a doctor mood, I won't be playing XO just because I can't play doctor. I'll play PFC instead.

SOs, POs, CTs, MTs and Doctors' lower limits don't seem to add anything, really.

An alternative suggestion is to implement lower limits on roundstart, but after it has started jump to more normal ones. So the latejoiners have the choice, with full knowledge of how many are in the department, through the crew manifest.

[FearTheBlackout]

With greater slots comes greater need for supplies. The Security department should either have enough police tape and forensic scanners for 8 MPs in general or magically scale at round start based on those needs.

[CSolaris]

Not a fan of the reduced number of available doctor slots on low pop. Early morning rounds for me yield anywhere between 80-100 players, and according to the scaling, that calls for only 2 doctors + 1 CMO and God forbid that the a majority of the doctors are bald as all hell. Can't even late join to try and salvage Medbay due to so few slots.

[solidfury7]

I think reducing the numbers of shipside roles isnt something we need.

Expanding the numbers during larger populations is.