Let's talk about the Code of Honour - worthy prey vs honour duel

[ThePiachu]

So, today I saw some predators in a game. Some of the things they were doing was fun and good RP (busting an infected Predator out of a hive, putting it down afterwards, etc.). Some generated a lot of salt in the comments for "being bad at following the Code of Honour". So here's the situation, let me know if I'm understanding things correctly.

LV map, hive is on its last few xenos. Queen is in SW ruins, along with a drone and a runner. A predator is trying to coax the queen into engaging in a fight for like a minute. Eventually the queen gives in, de-ovis and fights it. Then runs off, gets critted by the pred on a landing pad, someone else lights the pred on fire, and the pred has to run before they kill the Queen. But not before blasting that poor marine with a plasma caster, and later going back to try murdering them.

So, I think there is a big misunderstanding here of the Honour Code. Specifically the difference between "worthy prey" and "honour duel". As I understand, the first covers most of the combat-capable xenos and people on the field. Unless it's a medic, or wounded, or the like, if it's engaged in a fight, giving orders, or going around looking for a fight, it's a "worthy prey" - hunt it all you want within the restrictions.

Honor dues on the other hand is either a predator-predator conflict, or some gesture of the predator recognising someone as being close to their equal. Maybe a Marine that did some high RP.

If you want to attack a Queen, you don't need to coax her into the fight. She's your prey, she's combat capable and given orders to fight. You don't need to wait for her to de-ovi, or strike you first, or anything like that, unless you want that extra challenge. She doesn't get a choice, she doesn't get to say no.

But guess what, now that you're attacking the Queen, it's not honour duel. It's a hunt. Everything goes - healing, running, grouping up on you. Plasma casters are a no-go here, at least until you take your target down and someone tries to steal your trophy from you.

Am I understanding this correctly? Is this how the Code of Honour is supposed to work? Or am I off the mark?

----

Also from the same round - if a Predator is captured by xenos and the xenos know about it, can they go gun-ho in to put the captured one down before it chestbursts and/or retrieve / destroy the tech it owned? Which is more important here - Code of Honour (plasma casters are only for very specific situations), or "preserve the tech at all costs, don't let abominations happen"?

[Imperator_Titan]

First part.
You can't honor duel xenos as they lack honour. You can honor duel other predators in extreme cases or humans as they do indeed have a sense of honour. Can only hunt xenos.

Attacking the queen while she's ovi'd is a dishonourable action. It's down to her if she chooses to deovi and engage one. It's frowned upon to kill the queen however not against the rules. Nobody hunts one so its not really an issue. Keep in mind, there's a big difference between rushing the hive at roundstart and killing the queen and between finding the queen to be the last xenomorph alive. One kills the round for the xenos, the other just makes it end faster.

Second part:
Yes, predators are allowed to do whatever they have to do to save infected predators. No limits.

[awan]

I have seen preds before who try to honor duel xeno's or have blasted other xeno's for interfering in their honor duel.
So far I have always told people if you think a pred did something wrong player report them unless it is obvious grief it gets handled there.

The preds have great difficulty in killing a queen that knows what she is doing. Perhaps with the lower movementspeed it is easier. But if a queen can be gotten to by a pred they are either a bad queen, very unlucky or without enough xeno's to defend themselves.

[Imperator_Titan]

I have seen preds before who try to honor duel xeno's or have blasted other xeno's for interfering in their honor duel.
So far I have always told people if you think a pred did something wrong player report them unless it is obvious grief it gets handled there.

The preds have great difficulty in killing a queen that knows what she is doing. Perhaps with the lower movementspeed it is easier. But if a queen can be gotten to by a pred they are either a bad queen, very unlucky or without enough xeno's to defend themselves.

Okay brother, let me stop you right there. There's a BIG difference between isolating your prey for a one on one and an honor duel. You're allowed to blast anyone that interferes with either.

Queens are easy kills, the only issue is that they're surrounded by the hive for good measure. You're not a predator player so you might not know but swarms are generally the most common way to kill predators.

No offense intended.

[awan]

Indeed, they are disrupting the hunt and are thus became unworthy.
But does a queen healing the prey should make the prey unworthy?
Or does fleeing when a prey halfway in the fight?
Ill admit I do not know if those are ok because I dont play as a pred but it does seem those are 2 things that are only not ok to do during an honor duel.

I never had an issue with preds myself as queen because you could charge away. That is gone now indeed. I do not know how much they are effected by schreeches but imo a queen who knows what they are doing would be able to hold their own against a pred. If a queen knows it is a pred round they can take measures to not be killed by the pred.

[Renomaki]

Honestly, as a predator myself, I have a mental list of what I can and can't hunt. One of those things I can't hunt is the QUEEN, mainly due to her great important to the hive's survival and growth.

The only time hunting a queen is ok is if they are the last xeno and are delaying the round by being a coward an running. Otherwise, it is best to leave them alone.

As for the idea between hunting and dueling... Well, hunting is more straightforward and basic, while duels require way more effort than they are worth and a lot of trust.

I myself rarely duel as a predator because dueling in general is difficult to set up as is. It is easier to just hunt em like normal and make em drop doodies when a predator is actively hunting them. And even if you ARE able to get a marine (not a xeno, they don't play nice) to duel you somehow, what is to say they don't start cheating in the middle of the duel? If they knock you out, chances are they'll batter your face in rather than let you get up. Or maybe their friend who is watching sets you on fire when you least expect it? Marines can sometimes (if not oftentimes) be just as dishonorable as xenos, who'll stab you in the back the first chance they get, just so they can get your fancy mask and armor.

Dishonor for preds, meanwhile, is very confusing even to this day. because most people never been in our shoes, it is very easy to misunderstand a lot of situations or jump to conclusions. Hell, just yesterday I had people screaming dishonor at me for something ANOTHER PREDATOR did, and I don't even know what THAT GUY did to have people get pissed off. Even using certain weapons on people can be enough to get them to scream dishonor and threaten you with removal from the whitelist.

It is kinda why these days, I have become much more... Bitter as a predator, still playing it because I want to try to make the round interesting for the marines but also realizing that the magic that was once there has long faded away... But that is another topic for another day.

[Butlerblock]

Honors rules are currently in an extremely shit position. They’re made to limit the amount of power a predator has on a round, or even a single target. However, it does a horrible job at this. Even the slightest thing you do against a pred that you didn’t take into consideration for at least 10 minutes prior will mark you as a dishonorable target, and the pred can and usually will do anything to you, and it’s allowed in the rules. Not to mention the amount of bullshit a pred can do even while you’re honorable, like abusing their high chance of stun on their clan sword and basically instakill when they stun you once, regardless if you’re an ancient lurker or some measly pfc. I played a round yesterday, where i hadn’t even played CM for about a month, managed to get elite lurker on lv, killed maybe 9 marines before I hit a pred trap maybe, 15 minutes after fog drop?. I knew better not to fight back, and he dragged me to a small ass (3x7) arena, that took up maybe 15% of my screen at best, and the pred looc’d me “I hope your queen doesn’t heal you, it’s annoying”, i’m just thinking whatever, i never asked her if she does anyways. pred starts the fight after i get the hunting trap off. i make due with the very limited room i have to robust him, and get maybe 4 slashes in before he hits me once with the clan sword, stuns me, then runs after me and slashes me again 4 times before i can get up. if i didn’t have queen watching me, that would’ve insta crit me, however it still put me at one clan sword attack left before i got crit, and i’m not going to manage slashing a pred 20 times without getting hit in a 3x7 arena, so i lost the duel. pred takes me as a trophy as i salt at him in looc. best thing is that none of that was against any rules. i just get my entire round ruined, with 0 counter play, because a pred decided it. not giving pred name because reasons, only saying it to shine light on how shit the predator honor code is.

[Imperator_Titan]

Indeed, they are disrupting the hunt and are thus became unworthy.
But does a queen healing the prey should make the prey unworthy?
Or does fleeing when a prey halfway in the fight?
Ill admit I do not know if those are ok because I dont play as a pred but it does seem those are 2 things that are only not ok to do during an honor duel.

I never had an issue with preds myself as queen because you could charge away. That is gone now indeed. I do not know how much they are effected by schreeches but imo a queen who knows what they are doing would be able to hold their own against a pred. If a queen knows it is a pred round they can take measures to not be killed by the pred.

Prey being healed by the queen is still worthy. Generally when you enter a battle knowing you'll be fighting a certain amount of people, you have to stay until the end. If more show up however, feel free to leave.

E.g you see your a marine as your prey being escorted by another marine. If you choose to attack, you cannot leave until you acquire your prey. If another marine shows up which bumps it up to three, you can choose to leave and find a more suitable time.

[Casany]

I’ve had times where I’ll fire off like a single bullet at the direction a pred is at because I’ve thought it was a xeno or ICly my character was jumpy. And that’s gotten me blasted with spikes, plasma, and all sorts of unhonorable things because I fired one bullet which made me unhonorable. In fact, one round I did this a predator actually killed me with a plasma pistol after I fired one bullet north. He was like northeast and not even close to where I fired, and I fired because I thought it was a Lurker. He just murders me in cloak with his pistol though because I’m unhonorable. (Of course, after the medic revived me he came back again to murder me again, so I knocked him out and took his mask and killed him with the help of like 6 other marines and the synth.)

My point is, if you so much as look at a predator wrong or you fire at a xeno and the predator just happens to be there you’re unhonorable and he can kill you whilst cloaked with no reprocussion

[ThePiachu]

Snip

I saw that! It was a "lodge" cramped in a little corner and yeah. It was basically a predator trying to honour duel a lurker, albeit in a much more cramped location.

My point is, if you so much as look at a predator wrong or you fire at a xeno and the predator just happens to be there you’re unhonorable and he can kill you whilst cloaked with no reprocussion

Well, that's the thing - a predator should only do that if you interfere with an honour duel, not a basic hunt.

Attacking the queen while she's ovi'd is a dishonourable action. It's down to her if she chooses to deovi and engage one. It's frowned upon to kill the queen however not against the rules. Nobody hunts one so its not really an issue. Keep in mind, there's a big difference between rushing the hive at roundstart and killing the queen and between finding the queen to be the last xenomorph alive. One kills the round for the xenos, the other just makes it end faster.

In game terms, sure, it's definitely a shitty thing to just rush a queen in a hive and start scratching her up like a crazy cat. It's shitty to the player that has to rush through some consoles to get back to its body and de-ovi. In a more in-universe terms - it's the queen's fault if she let this happen. If you're not surrounded by a few hive protectors, and surrounded by resin doors and walls, if you don't hear the predator get into your hive, well, then who is to blame here?

Probably a balance here would be giving the queen a chance to notice you and de-ovi. Roar at her, give her a smack to show her that the fight is on. It's not an honour duel, she doesn't get to say no.

But yeah, all in the context of "don't be a shitter, don't rush a hive just to get your trophies, the game isn't all about you".

[Heckenshutze]

Honors rules are currently in an extremely shit position. They’re made to limit the amount of power a predator has on a round, or even a single target. However, it does a horrible job at this. Even the slightest thing you do against a pred that you didn’t take into consideration for at least 10 minutes prior will mark you as a dishonorable target, and the pred can and usually will do anything to you, and it’s allowed in the rules. Not to mention the amount of bullshit a pred can do even while you’re honorable, like abusing their high chance of stun on their clan sword and basically instakill when they stun you once, regardless if you’re an ancient lurker or some measly pfc. I played a round yesterday, where i hadn’t even played CM for about a month, managed to get elite lurker on lv, killed maybe 9 marines before I hit a pred trap maybe, 15 minutes after fog drop?. I knew better not to fight back, and he dragged me to a small ass (3x7) arena, that took up maybe 15% of my screen at best, and the pred looc’d me “I hope your queen doesn’t heal you, it’s annoying”, i’m just thinking whatever, i never asked her if she does anyways. pred starts the fight after i get the hunting trap off. i make due with the very limited room i have to robust him, and get maybe 4 slashes in before he hits me once with the clan sword, stuns me, then runs after me and slashes me again 4 times before i can get up. if i didn’t have queen watching me, that would’ve insta crit me, however it still put me at one clan sword attack left before i got crit, and i’m not going to manage slashing a pred 20 times without getting hit in a 3x7 arena, so i lost the duel. pred takes me as a trophy as i salt at him in looc. best thing is that none of that was against any rules. i just get my entire round ruined, with 0 counter play, because a pred decided it. not giving pred name because reasons, only saying it to shine light on how shit the predator honor code is.

Local xeno complains about being cheesed, like xenos didn't used the same cheese-like, stun-like, dirty-like tactics to play.

[Butlerblock]

Local xeno complains about being cheesed, like xenos didn't used the same cheese-like, stun-like, dirty-like tactics to play.

Tackle against pred was hard stealth nerfed to lower the chance to about 10%. Noting that you can only get 2-3 slashes in at best per tackle because of their stun resist, there's no reason to use tackle over slash, not to mention that his stun isn't a damageless attack, and has about 4x the stun chance and about twice the duration.

[Heckenshutze]

Tackle against pred was hard stealth nerfed to lower the chance to about 10%. Noting that you can only get 2-3 slashes in at best per tackle because of their stun resist, there's no reason to use tackle over slash, not to mention that his stun isn't a damageless attack, and has about 4x the stun chance and about twice the duration.

My statement remains the same.