New term - the Rose Rush

[ThePiachu]

So, I've played a few Prison Station rounds lately, and I've noticed that the trend for those seems to be to rush the map and get it done and over with in under an hour. I've seen Aestel 'Rose' Wellick pull this off a few times (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_UCPeG_YFY , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4t6XDN9xUY), so perhaps this strategy should be known as "The Rose Rush". What do you think?

[sxmething]

This is alternatively known as "metarushing".

[Rohesie]

Aestel is a known unga, Delta prime. The command application didn't hide the fact that her char is more focused on combat than RP:

I typically play Aestel as a very aggressive squad-lead, and I think that would translate into a more maneuverable command with less static defense, and more moving pieces. My goal would be to make everyone on the ship have an enjoyable experience, and do my best to incorporate everyone into the operation.

The medals she issues reflect it, as it's the general robustos and ungas who get them most of the time.

Not sure if I'd qualify this as metarush, though. Doesn't seem to be a rule break in my eyes. Just a commander who's focused in winning executing tactics known by their efficiency. The accepted application didn't try to hide it.

[Aestel]

I will maintain this to the end of time. Going to the downed ship when it is clearly marked as a crashed ship on the map in the CIC is not meta because we are expecting going into this that it is a prison riot. From there, without fail: Xenos lead us into the hive with half their T3 force which we promptly wipe. We then send reserves up to flank the other sides of Civilian. Prison allows for no innovative tactics because the hive is locked in place, and the marines are kept on paths by the central pod-locks.

I can not control what my SLs do on the ground with their squads, and more often then not they pursue them. The reason I win is because I support them rather than screaming for them to retreat. You can see yesterday on LV on why you can't order retreats. For this reason, I keep squads tied together. No squad is ever alone in one of my operations unless they are pushing a single point from different positions.


Now, here is how you fix it: Remove the ship. Increase the podlock timers to 12:50. There, its fixed. My bad if I do what a commander would actually do. I don't throw rounds intentionally like half the COs, and I never will.

[Solarmare]

Sending two squads to the crashed ship just to follow xenos to the hive is just metagaming, and should be ending now. Continuing in that vein will just lead to bans over metagaming which mentions this as ramboing.

[CSolaris]

So what you're saying is that marines -shouldn't- follow the suspicious lizards that are trying to kill them with a larger force with the intent to kill?

[Bath Salts Addict]

I thought that term was already coined to describe those types of COs that instantly gear up at roundstart, leave the unwilling XO in charge of the operation, deploy and die in the first thirty minutes?

[Aestel]

So what you're saying is that marines -shouldn't- follow the suspicious lizards that are trying to kill them with a larger force with the intent to kill?

That is exactly what they are saying, and exactly what I have been noted for multiple times. This needs a formal review, we aren't civilians on the ground. We see an opfor, we engage opfor.

[Sleepy Retard]

It's just a rush.

[CSolaris]

That is exactly what they are saying, and exactly what I have been noted for multiple times. This needs a formal review, we aren't civilians on the ground. We see an opfor, we engage opfor.

You're literally doing nothing wrong. Them saying the marines chasing after killer lizards - which are the only things left on the ship filled with dead prisoners and guards by the way - is metarushing is straight up asinine.

[Solarmare]

If you're sending two squads to where xenos might be and just following them directly to the hive then yes. You are in fact metagaming as that's a direct example of it in the server rules. Metarush is probably one of the older things around really.

[Geikkamir]

So what you're saying is that marines -shouldn't- follow the suspicious lizards that are trying to kill them with a larger force with the intent to kill?

Honestly yeah, this seems ridiculous.

[CSolaris]

She sent a detachment to the northern side of the prison - I was a part of that Charlie detachment - and then had us regroup with the rest of the force who chased the xenos that attacked them by the crashed ship into civ residences. There was no "guessing" where the xenos were, they attacked first and took the marines straight back to the hive. The xenos then got pinched from both ends and were subsequently wiped out.

[Aestel]

She sent a detachment to the northern side of the prison - I was a part of that Charlie detachment - and then had us regroup with the rest of the force who chased the xenos that attacked them by the crashed ship into civ residences. There was no "guessing" where the xenos were, they attacked first and took the marines straight back to the hive. The xenos then got pinched from both ends and were subsequently wiped out.

Three ends, but yeah. We had the entire station scouted.

[Casany]

If you're sending two squads to where xenos might be and just following them directly to the hive then yes. You are in fact metagaming as that's a direct example of it in the server rules. Metarush is probably one of the older things around really.

So we shouldn't send marines to the CRASHED SHIP. You know, the unidentified ship on the Prison Station Map, a station which went dark and holds numerous violent prisoners. It's meta to send your squads to the area where there may be a pirate incursion or riot.

Any other map, it makes sense. Here, it doesn't. There was obviously a ship that crashed into Prison Station, check the fucking map, I hold that it is not meta to send marines to do what they were called to do; Save the station. If you think sending marines to a crashed pirate ship is meta you need to rethink your view there friendo

[ThesoldierLLJK]

This isn’t the first time but every time Aestel is the CO I can’t but help notice that at the first contact with Xenos they will always try to bait us to follow them directly to their hive. This has happened on multiple maps I’ve played with her as CO and I was SO/XO. Is this a metarush if they make us follow and directly take us to their hive?

Part of me wonders if the Xenos are the ones committing a meta to see if she will take the bait.

[Gray]

Following xenos to their hive is "metarush/ramboing" according to the rules, which breaks the rules. Most other commanders would immediately call squads to fall back when they find out they push too far but Rose decides otherwise and tells them to push instead.

This gives xenos no time to grow in age and promptly lose. IMO when every map now has a 25 minute delay on deploying and some maps even have their own special timelocks (prison's poddoors and LV's fog), the "ramboing" rule needs to be either revised or removed as chasing xenos is just as good as getting captured early in and then reporting their location.

[Nantei]

Poor Gaius. His innocently intended thread is being stormed by salt. Also by 35 minutes squads should have already scouted the entire area other than civ residences/caves. It's hardly meta to go there next.

[Symbiosis]

Sending two squads to the crashed ship just to follow xenos to the hive is just metagaming, and should be ending now. Continuing in that vein will just lead to bans over metagaming which mentions this as ramboing.

You've got this part of the map open AFTER 12:40.

https://prnt.sc/k42qnr

The Xenos can only hive in really one location.

This is a small map.

You have nowhere to send the Marines, if you ban players for pushing you need to make the map bigger... There's nowhere to go but west. Just remove it from the rotation. Banning players because of your feelings is bad. Just speed up early evolution if its a problem.

[Aestel]

Following xenos to their hive is "metarush/ramboing" according to the rules, which breaks the rules. Most other commanders would immediately call squads to fall back when they find out they push too far but Rose decides otherwise and tells them to push instead.

This gives xenos no time to grow in age and promptly lose. IMO when every map now has a 25 minute delay on deploying and some maps even have their own special timelocks (prison's poddoors and LV's fog), the "ramboing" rule needs to be either revised or removed as chasing xenos is just as good as getting captured early in and then reporting their location.

See, those commanders lose 1/3rd of a squad by doing that every time. That then starts the murderball, and its over from there. Marines are not coordinated enough to fall back. I adapted, because it is assumed that the commander knows his marines strengths and weaknesses.

The issue is the term ramboing typically refers to single marines unga'ing forward, NOT an overwhelming force. The rules are not explicit on how many marines is "ramboing" vs a "tactical push" Why would I as the commander not use my advantage when I have it, it is literally lowrp to not.

[Aestel]

You've got this part of the map open AFTER 12:40.

Until 12:40 you've got this -



The Xenos can only hive in really one location.

This is a small map.

You have nowhere to send the Marines, if you ban players for pushing you need to make the map bigger... There's nowhere to go but west.

Exactly. it is a giant circle, I send a heavy sided team along the bottom(Alpha/Delta with Bravo in reserve), and a smaller faster flanking force around the top (in this case, charlie). The idea is to catch any opfor, CLF, beno, UPP within a pincer. I stress moving quickly to my SLs, which shows in how quickly they can accomplish their objectives. (Power, FOB, Tcomms, scouting the entire station)

[CSolaris]

Exactly. it is a giant circle, I send a heavy sided team along the bottom(Alpha/Delta with Bravo in reserve), and a smaller faster flanking force around the top (in this case, charlie). The idea is to catch any opfor, CLF, beno, UPP within a pincer. I stress moving quickly to my SLs, which shows in how quickly they can accomplish their objectives. (Power, FOB, Tcomms, scouting the entire station)

STOP USING YOUR BRAIN IT'S METAGAMING, WELLICK!

[Deanthelis]

There is no other strategy that works on Prison Station.

This would not be an issue if the vents were working; Xenos couldn't get nearly enough larvae.

Perhaps if Prison, like Big Red or LV or Ice, had more than one possible hive location, this wouldn't happen so much.

Perhaps if the crashed ship weren't so close to the only hive location possible, this wouldn't happen so much.

This is not an Aestell thing. This is a Prison Station thing. Pretty much every CO does this - or builds a giant onion fortress at LZ1 that drags the round out to 3+ hours - because trying to play Prison with the flow it was intended to have, doesn't even remotely work.

[Symbiosis]

It's laughable we have an admin threatening to ban players for going the ONLY DIRECTION THEY CAN GO.

Subjective feelings bans are bad and you should feel bad for even thinking of that as an option. You're letting power get to your head.

I was personally banned for 7 days for this EXACT THING for 3-4 months ago. It was a clusterfuck that was a black mark on CM because ZERO rules were broken.

Don't bring subjective "feelings" into your rule administration so you can ban people you don't like.

[Clutch]

>scout the crashed ship>get attacked by ravagers and crushers>chase them>OMFG METARUSH!!!!