Do MP's need a decent cnounter to keep them in line?

[Maxim Inc]

Recently we've had a string of "bad" MP's, ones that looked at the new marine law update and said " This gives me a justice boner for shitlering".

What we need it some way to counter them, be it another change to marine law or maybe the CL having a group of personal mercs to enforce the companies "interests" on the USS Almyer to act as a counter or something to shift there interest away from the marines and crew.
What are your ideas on the matter?

EDIT: Yes I know it has a typo in the title, I cant find a way to fix it

[Davidchan]

Give CL an adrenaline implant and a box for donuts that when thrown stuns all MPs on screen.

[Lorem123]

Make it so the LTs and CO can strip MPs of their rank and powers.

[Maxim Inc]

Make it so the LTs and CO can strip MPs of their rank and powers.

That might work if the right guidelines were in place for what calls for demotion and what doesn't.

[Lorem123]

If an MP breaks marine law, unless it is in an extraordinary situation, an LT or commanding officer can strip them of their rank. Same with the CMP.

[Sulaboy]

MPs already have to worry about admins if they really fuck up. Biggest counter for them would be having a decent WO to keep them in check. Whenever I play as CMP I usually stay in brig or CIC, and dispatch my officers. When they bring a guy in I put together a report asking both sides their story, and getting more info while the accused sentence runs (because if they're actually guilty they won't be rotting away for a long hold time). If the MP fucked up his investigation then he gets less freedom in his orders. MPs have to follow orders from their superiors so a good CMP is the ultimate counter.


Also my subject line is great.

[Davidchan]

If we're being realistic, remove their snowflake protections and procedures:

1) Add MP comms to all Command Headsets (SO, PO, CE, RO, CMO). IC this allows Command members to summon or notify MPs directly if Marines or support crew is getting out of hand or violating Marine Law. OOC it prevents MPs from conspiring against other departments and forcing them to at least behave on their own comms or risk insub or worse charges as many CMPs drop onto Marines while eaves dropping on other comms. If this is unacceptable: remove all comms but Command and MP from CMP headset.

2)Add Security equipment (tasers, batons, cuffs, ect...) to the Bridge/SO lockers, and Command staff offices. Using lethal force often gets marines and officers in trouble particularly when dealing with rogue MPs. Giving non MPs some manner of non lethals to return fire would actually even the playing field and allow MPs to non-lethally be subdued when they are crossing the line.

3) Remove BE protection from MPs and other such restrictions that prevent them from being treated like any other marine or player when they fuck up.

4) Give CL and CO authority to charge MPs and CMP with crimes against USCM and W-Y, up to and including demotions if MPs are interfering with law abiding marines or otherwise hampering the OP. MPs and CMP should only legally be able to resist or fight this with actual evidence that the CL/CO is already violating the law.

5) Set the XO as the CMP's direct superior and thus authority over MPs. If the XO gives a lawful order for MPs to stand down from an arrest, they must stand down in compliance with Marine Law. A lawful order being defined as the XO otherwise complying with Marine Law and carrying out the Operation to the best of his ability. MPs can only protest this if the suspect of the crime would default get permanent incarceration (Sexual Assault, Murder or Unauthorized Execution or Sedition at the time of writing this.)

6) Add rubbershot/bean bag slugs to Marine Vendors.

[Dothal]

5) Set the XO as the CMP's direct superior and thus authority over MPs. If the XO gives a lawful order for MPs to stand down from an arrest, they must stand down in compliance with Marine Law. A lawful order being defined as the XO otherwise complying with Marine Law and carrying out the Operation to the best of his ability. MPs can only protest this if the suspect of the crime would default get permanent incarceration (Sexual Assault, Murder or Unauthorized Execution or Sedition at the time of writing this.)

No, never this. Literally nobody would ever end up being arrested, since the XO would just be shouting down command comms to release anyone that could ever have a chance of being useful to the mission.

[Lorem123]

MPs already have to worry about admins if they really fuck up. Biggest counter for them would be having a decent WO to keep them in check. Whenever I play as CMP I usually stay in brig or CIC, and dispatch my officers. When they bring a guy in I put together a report asking both sides their story, and getting more info while the accused sentence runs (because if they're actually guilty they won't be rotting away for a long hold time). If the MP fucked up his investigation then he gets less freedom in his orders. MPs have to follow orders from their superiors so a good CMP is the ultimate counter.


Also my subject line is great.

MPs do not need to worry about admins if they fuck up. Just look at what happened with Jack Knight and that other time a CMP/Mod called in a death squad for Symbiosis.

[coroneljones]

MPs do not need to worry about admins if they fuck up. Just look at what happened with Jack Knight

Yeah, look at what happened to Jack Knight, he has yet to fuck up, so clearly hes a great example of staff not handling MPs that break marine law

[CSolaris]

Yeah, look at what happened to Jack Knight, he has yet to fuck up, so clearly hes a great example of staff not handling MPs that break marine law

If we're being fair here, although Jack Knight might seem like a prick to players who happen to get caught up in unsecured equipment shenanigans, I don't mind the man in uniform so much myself. Jack Knight is a clear cut example of "don't do anything wrong, and I'll leave you alone." type of CMP - the kind of CMPs (and MPs for that matter) we should have. Not these MPs that are going out of their way to look for a reason to get out their harmbaton and throw someone in perma. Coroneljones is good at RP - he can play a stickler CMP and he can play a relatively interesting CL, how players react to him being him is a whole different can of worms though.

[Maxim Inc]

If we're being realistic, remove their snowflake protections and procedures:

1) Add MP comms to all Command Headsets (SO, PO, CE, RO, CMO). IC this allows Command members to summon or notify MPs directly if Marines or support crew is getting out of hand or violating Marine Law. OOC it prevents MPs from conspiring against other departments and forcing them to at least behave on their own comms or risk insub or worse charges as many CMPs drop onto Marines while eaves dropping on other comms. If this is unacceptable: remove all comms but Command and MP from CMP headset.

2)Add Security equipment (tasers, batons, cuffs, ect...) to the Bridge/SO lockers, and Command staff offices. Using lethal force often gets marines and officers in trouble particularly when dealing with rogue MPs. Giving non MPs some manner of non lethals to return fire would actually even the playing field and allow MPs to non-lethally be subdued when they are crossing the line.

I agree with both of these points and are in the fence with the rest. I do think that most of the independence of the MP's is the fact that they can say whatever they want over there comms wich makes them almost impossible to know if there actively plotting against the person being arrested or are actively trying to overthrow the balance of power on the ship with backroom plots.

I also think that if they command staff had some form of nonlethal weapons mutinies would end a lot less with all the staff dead and the MP's with a free reign to do what they want with the marines without the command staff to stop them.

[Build_R_]

6) Add rubbershot/bean bag slugs to Marine Vendors.

The only purpose for this that I can think of would be for rioting on the ship or pacifying survivors non-lethally which isn't usually necessary anyway.

[Davidchan]

The only purpose for this that I can think of would be for rioting on the ship or pacifying survivors non-lethally which isn't usually necessary anyway.

Marines IC don't know what is on the planet and have reason to believe CLF or other militia forces have taken over the colony. Capturing a terrorist alive, while difficult, offers for a valuable source of intel in learning where other cells may be active or how they are getting their supplies.

Additionally, the Almayer is made of tinfoil and falls to pieces when a dropship slams into it. No one in their right goddamn mind would fire a weapon that might risk a hull breach.

[Sulaboy]

Instead of giving marines beanbags add these.

http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/M230_Baton_round

It's lore relevant. It's a UGL compatible grenade that basically fires a big rubber bullet meant to knock someone out, or otherwise disable without killing them. Making it available might be a challenge, but maybe make it a prep vendor hack.

[Build_R_]

Marines IC don't know what is on the planet and have reason to believe CLF or other militia forces have taken over the colony. Capturing a terrorist alive, while difficult, offers for a valuable source of intel in learning where other cells may be active or how they are getting their supplies.

Additionally, the Almayer is made of tinfoil and falls to pieces when a dropship slams into it. No one in their right goddamn mind would fire a weapon that might risk a hull breach.

Although non-lethals are more morally acceptable, shooting the enemy forces with lethals and then pacifying and reviving them afterwards is a viable and safer option as once they are dead the defib timer gives much more time than a beanbag stun.
Also, the Almayer hull would fall apart under gunfire of course ICly but if that were really the case OOCly then marines wouldn't be given guns on the ship, with possibly 70 marines or more and 1 misfire being all that's needed for a hull breach they would store their weapons until they are needed or receive them in the dropship.

[Grubstank]

The only purpose for this that I can think of would be for rioting on the ship or pacifying survivors non-lethally which isn't usually necessary anyway.

In my experience, marines constantly get boinked for 'improper escalation' everytime an MP goes in tazer blazing. I'm convinced this bad ruling is intentional, as marines don't have access to non lethals (thus, to resist MPs, they must either shoot back or disarm spam (praying that you have more bodies than they have tazer shots)).
Because the admin teams solution to shitty MPs was to remove squad preference (ie to "disorganize the enemy") rather than to actually act against MPs, I really doubt we'd see a solution in that vein

[Maxim Inc]

I'll be honest I never thought my thread would get anywhere or even be noticed and it makes me happy to see that I actually started something

[xXen0zS1ay3rXx]

Maybe add some ship-side antags to keep the MPs doing something other than arresting marines for running in the halls

[ComradeCorbyn]

Most of this thread is not realizing that most troublesome MP's are dealt with by Admin's already, and the ones that don't usually get player reported. In the few cases where they aren't, then that comes down due to the inability of the Marines committing to a player report of the MP.

Just because one idiotic MP decides to go tazer-blazing on the front lines during an op doesn't mean all MPs do that.

[misto]

Maybe add some ship-side antags to keep the MPs doing something other than arresting marines for running in the halls

shipside human antags will give the CL, MTs, CE and cargo crew some new opportunities, but may be challenging to consider the balancing of said antags vs their impact on the overall war effort on the ground. a ruckus or sabotage aboard ship can cause significant distractions or command blackouts to the ppl on the planet. so, such antags shouldn't be highly disruptive.

i guess making like, the missile tubes a sabotage target would be harmless because they dont in reality do anything. maybe an objective to insert code into ARES and then its up to the admins if they want to have ARES make mischief or not, while the antag can say mission accomplished and hijack an escape pod and be gone. grabbing an egg and escaping would also make a juicy objective. i guess the CL(not really critical to ship operations) and the CE(tasks can be taken over by MTs) could be fair assassination targets.

it is highly thematic, as the treachery of other humans, er, and androids, is a frequent theme throughout aliens related media

[Azfrief]

Go with both of DavidChan's ideas. Man's a fucking genius.

[Casany]

Most of this thread is not realizing that most troublesome MP's are dealt with by Admin's already, and the ones that don't usually get player reported. In the few cases where they aren't, then that comes down due to the inability of the Marines committing to a player report of the MP.

Just because one idiotic MP decides to go tazer-blazing on the front lines during an op doesn't mean all MPs do that.

Except they don’t. I’ve seen the same problem MPs on for multiple rounds across literal months.

Tex was JUST BANNED, and he was a hated player for at least a month. But you can’t report an MP or have anything done when you ahelp because of staff bias. Just read my fucking Signature, and you’ll see.