as XO/CO, what to do when marines don't listen?

[adrenalinetooth]

The map is Ice Colony.
You've told ALPHA to defend FOB, BRAVO to defend TCOMMS, CHARLIE to scout dorms, DELTA to repair power, and TANK to wait at FOB until contacts are spotted.
However, BRAVO has run off to research with the tank and is currently going underground on the elevator, and charlie and delta are chasing xenos down near hydroponics.
Aliens are slowly surrounding both bravo plus the tank, as well as charlie and delta.
They absolutely refuse to follow any orders to come back or return, so you have to watch your platoon die.

As an XO or CO, how the hell do you stop your marines from doing this? I have tried yelling at them which only leads to marines hating me resulting in even less listening. I have tried bribing them, saying I will give them a reward if they stay on task, but they don't seem to care. I have tried sending down MPs, but it just starts mutinies.

I will say it again, what the hell do you do when your marines don't listen? I feel so powerless in command sometimes.

[Bancrose]

I shoot em.

[adrenalinetooth]

I shoot em.

Then the marines shoot back at you, steal your ID and mateba, and spit on your dead corpse. Hoorah. No one is following orders still, and now you are dead on the planet.

[Bancrose]

Then the marines shoot back at you, steal your ID and mateba, and spit on your dead corpse. Hoorah. No one is following orders still, and now you are dead on the planet.

Thats usually how it ends actually.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Don't play CO/XO on Ice. In fact don't vote for Ice at all.

[DriedMilk]

Is the Ice situation real or just a hypothetical scenario?

Because no SL is dumb enough to go to the Underground section of Ice. Which is just a living hell and just ends in a squad wipe 100%.

If so, try and get some common senses into their unga heads by telling them in squad comms or announcements WHY not following the order may cause the entirety of the squad to die.

For example: The Marines are pushing the Xenos on LV and a few of them hold the cave entrances despite ordering them not to do so. I simply went into their squad comms and referred them to the Battle of Thermopylae and way going into those entrances would cause a massive funnel leading to multiple marines to die. After that, they held T-Fort/Containera because they KNEW what would happen if they didn't follow orders.

Being known also plays a huge part in this.

[Sulaboy]

The beginning orders were flawed. You have three squads and the tank just sitting on the planet doing nothing but waiting for the game to end. Were any squads sent to lz2? What about the survivors that might still be alive farther in the colony.

The best way to get marines to listen to orders would be by giving them a better order than sit here or sit there. I've got my own ideas on how an ice round should go, but I don't think I'll be going into them here.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

Not much you can do, just like the numerous amounts of times command is not listening to the marines in the same way.You can try and get MP's, but thats just getting them to the brig and not exactly completing orders is it? No.
When you as command are not listening, we mutiny.When us marines dont listen, you try to send MP's, but we all know which one is more effective.

You can mateba them, but see where that gets ya.

What doesnt help though, is having bad command orders from the start that most marines know are bad orders.Thats a sure way to get the marines not to listen.
If that happens to be the case, then complaining about why the marines arent listening isnt the real issue, its your decisions/orders that need to be looked at and how your approaching a command role.

When the marines make their own objectives, they clearly think they have a better idea of whats going on than you and your staff(usually do too), you need to be active and prove that you are helpful to this operation and know what the hell your talking about.Dont be a silent command.

How many times has command called a early, too fast or sometimes not even needed EVAC thats got a great portion of the marines killed unnecessarily? Many, many times ive seen, and you wonder why some marines start to totally disregard anything command says over comms..

How many times has a squad been cohesive at the start and/or mid section of the OP, only to totally begin to not listen to a order because they have been sent on a wild goose chase from command? Equally just as many times.

Play marine more and witness these examples for yourself, then youll understand.

It appears to be a balancing act between being authoritative and supportive, if you swing to far on either side with the marines, they wont listen, but one side is more destructive towards you, the command staff.The other is directed at the enemy.Which one will you choose.

[Grubstank]

The map is Ice Colony.
You've told ALPHA to defend FOB, BRAVO to defend TCOMMS, CHARLIE to scout dorms, DELTA to repair power, and TANK to wait at FOB until contacts are spotted.
However, BRAVO has run off to research with the tank and is currently going underground on the elevator, and charlie and delta are chasing xenos down near hydroponics.
Aliens are slowly surrounding both bravo plus the tank, as well as charlie and delta.
They absolutely refuse to follow any orders to come back or return, so you have to watch your platoon die.

As an XO or CO, how the hell do you stop your marines from doing this? I have tried yelling at them which only leads to marines hating me resulting in even less listening. I have tried bribing them, saying I will give them a reward if they stay on task, but they don't seem to care. I have tried sending down MPs, but it just starts mutinies.

I will say it again, what the hell do you do when your marines don't listen? I feel so powerless in command sometimes.

Getting gamers to do what you say involves either giving them fun orders, or showing them your character's personality so that they're willing to follow you personally.

Stepping into a command position in a multiplayer game may put you in charge on paper, but the grunts will only invest as much effort into their orders as you invest into being a good leader.

Eg - Carson tends to intentionally alienate his marines from him every single round. Whatever squad he displays his favoritism to that round will likely do what he says, but there's a reason that he gets ass blasted by disgruntled marines more rounds than not.

If you win the marines over with a good personality/orders and show personal investment in the well-being of each squad over comms, then marines are going to be *a lot* more receptive to any necessary sheparding you have to do down the road. There really is no way to salvage the situation you describe in the op -- once your marines start ignoring you, your only hope is to pray the squad is still loyal to their SL's personality and try to win the SL over directly.

It all boils down to squad cohesion. It's an extremely precious resource; easy to piss away and difficult to regain. You have to actively maintain and foster it from the start if you want to have a hope of being a recognized authority in late game. If *you* the CO don't maintain it, then you're entirely at the mercy of the quality/survival of your SLs.

[Gnorse]

First things first, if an SL disobeys direct orders on ice and -WILLINGLY- goes underground without support from other squads and his squad actually -ACCEPTS- his decision, that squad should be left to die, since they're probably all a bunch of baldies.

On that note, Try switching to marine comms and speak to the marines themselves without an SO acting as a middle-man. If that doesn't work, try to bribe/threaten them. Use the insub marker and send MPs down. If you're a CO, Hand out medals to marines who are actually doing shit and/or execute some of them.

Or you could just, like, give squads some fun orders. If you have more than one squad sitting at the FoB and not doing anything, you've fucked something up.

[Szunti]

CM = military roleplay where noone cares about orders or superiors. And this is how it is intended (insub and total disrespect only IC issue, staff members behaving the same) so you can't do anything.

[Grubstank]

CM = military roleplay where noone cares about orders or superiors. And this is how it is intended (insub and total disrespect only IC issue, staff members behaving the same) so you can't do anything.

If you need admins to threaten bans in order to get marines to do what you say, then you're really not the sort of person who should be in a leadership position.

[FGRSentinel]

I've never played XO and I'm not whitelisted for CO, but a lot of my experience as SO can still be applicable and I've been in CIC when a mutiny broke out before. The first thing you need to do to make sure your squads listen to your orders is to make sure you listen to them as well. Marines respond better to SOs, XOs, and COs that respond to what they say in a meaningful way and tend to like Command Officers who are on top of things enough that they don't need to stop in the middle of a firefight to report things.

If you're doing this, identify how bad the issue is and identify the cause. Even if marines are in open mutiny, there's always the chance that you can placate them by doing something relatively small, often rescinding or overriding an order or directive you or a Command Officer (CO, XO, or SO) gave that was extremely unpopular. If it's an open mutiny and they're not willing to negotiate, voluntarily stepping down will ease the situation for other CIC officers and prevent bloodshed.

If it's not open mutiny, determine if they're receiving conflicting orders. If they are, speak to whoever tried to override your orders. If it's a mutiny caused by mass arrests against a squad by a single SO, it's best to determine the series of events and, if the SO was trying to countermand the situation or simply spark conflict, inform the CMP of the situation. In the case of the former, the CMP cannot hold marines for insub if they chose to prioritize the CO's orders over the XO's or SO's if the latter's orders require them to ignore the former's and showing the marines you stand by your men makes them more willing to stand by you. If it's the latter, you can at least get the trouble officer arrested and announce that you won't tolerate blatant abuse of authority or the marines under your command from any officers. I know that there's been at least two mutinies I've been involved with that occurred because the the CO refused to do either of the above.

If it's not an issue in CIC, identify who the source of the problem is and inform them of your disappointment in the situation. This won't stop anyone who's determined to cause problems, though.

Marines like officers that are decisive. Know when to push, keep the squads moving during a push, and know the moment to order them to hold or pull back. As an SO I've had more than one round where my squad's idling and I give them an order to move right as they started to get anxious for a direction to move in. If you know when to give commands and when to let the marines to do what they want, you'll typically get their respect and support. People like Carson (who I personally dislike in every other CIC position except CO) have managed to figure out how to do this to the point that they're willing to give similarly decisive and alert SOs relative autonomy to get their squads to operate more effectively, even if it leads to high casualty rates.

Lastly, if a CIC officer or the CMP tells you an order is a bad idea (especially if it's the CMP regarding Marine Law) it's generally best to listen. Ignoring them is a surefire way to lose the support of CIC staff, which in a mutiny situation can be the difference between stopping it before it can start and having your first warning that there's a mutiny be a full squad of marines walking into CIC with guns drawn. Likewise, showing a disregard for Marine Law is the quickest way to get the CMPs to contact HC to have you removed from command.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Realistically you can't order insubordination for an entire squad, I mean well you could but it would just lead to a logistical nightmare.
My best suggestion is you tell them "If you don't do this, you're gonna die because of X or Y"

If the xenos get them, it's their fault they charged in or disobeyed orders and died, not yours.

[Heckenshutze]

Earn their respect, people follow someone who sweats respect, not because of his rank.

Example: Your squads getting their butts kicked, SLs useless / dead, ask your CO (in case you're XO) to deploy and lead your squad yourself as pointman.
In case you're the CO leave the XO as aCO.

[Chaznoodles]

You can't force people to listen. Adapt your plans to what they're doing and pray.

The only solution is to prevent the situation from arising by earning the respect of the players ICly and OOCly. Don't be dumb, don't be a meme commander.

[Mann handle]

Charisma and objectives.

Become known and inspire people to follow orders and think of objectives that have marines do shit. If you can do that much you can get marines to know you a little better, when they know you a little more it feeds into the 'Charisma objectives' paradigm and it becomes self sustaining. Also fun rounds with a meme order or two is nice to get some action in.

However when you are in command, you are expected to adapt quickly to the situation or marines disobeying orders. If the situation is changing, counter it. If marines are bored and disobeying orders, provide an objective and find some motivation for it. You could RP that spot you want delta to wait at for five minutes as a key location and could assist with you plans for a flank or whatever you have in mind.

Heck if the FOB squad is bored, do what I do. Tell the SL in advance to split his squad into two teams, when they land they build the FOB. After the FOB is acceptable, send the 'half' the SL HIMSELF (key part there) split to an objective with reminders to rotate wounded people for healthy marines waiting in the FOB. Heck you can make some mighty fine patrols this way, evacing marines this way when CAS is packed with work AND you can turn this into a logistics effort for tank ammo or even standard ammo when SLs die and lose their beacons.

[BuxRagin]

I would just like to point out since I don't think it's been said in this thread: sometimes commanders of any level make stupid decisions and get all their men killed. It's a story repeated a thousand times in a thousand ditches all over the world.

The number of people who have died face down in ditches cursing their COs name is not insignificant.

The point is, from the CO's and the military the soldier is a part of's perspective, to die in the ditch they tell you to die in.

[RobBrown4PM]

Use the MP's and your Mateba to change their minds.

Like Vicky 2, you bend them to your will, by any means necessary.

[ComradeCorbyn]

As an XO or aCO, usually, Marines don't obey your orders when you have previously made a bad order like ordering a charge that wipes out a squad or leading to the tall of a significant place like hydro. Sometimes, it might even be due to meta about your character- as seen in Bill Carson, who I have noticed Marines ignoring his orders due to the meta of him being a failure of a Commander.

In order to prevent this, generally, I'd recommend not being a shitter. Let me expand on that, people aren't afraid to die in SS13. Discipline practically doesn't exist in SS13 either, there's no way of implementing it unless you are a competent roleplayer. I'd highly recommend making aSls or SLs your friends as an aCO, since they usually will lead their squad and all Marines will listen to their Staff Sergeant regardless, unless of course, the SL is awful, in which case it is your duty of appointing a new one.

Just my two cents on this, in no way shape or form, am I really qualified saying this as an XO main.

[Grubstank]

I would just like to point out since I don't think it's been said in this thread: sometimes commanders of any level make stupid decisions and get all their men killed. It's a story repeated a thousand times in a thousand ditches all over the world.

The number of people who have died face down in ditches cursing their COs name is not insignificant.

The point is, from the CO's and the military the soldier is a part of's perspective, to die in the ditch they tell you to die in.

That really doesn't translate to being an effective leader in a video game. In a perfect world, people would both follow their orders and have fun. When you force players to choose between the two, then they're going to choose having fun... unless your skill/communication as a CO is enough to counteract that, which is the point of this thread.

Edit: if you really want to roleplay a "realistic" commander, then go ahead. Just don't be surprised when you lose control of your squads in ten minutes and face down a mutiny later on. Just as tips about being good at CM combat don't transfer to real life, tips on being a good commander won't either.

[BuxRagin]

There's a good reason that mutinies have to be approved and the rules say you should generally follow chain of command.

The point I'm making isn't about real armies. It's about how if you don't want to be a soldier there are roles in this game that aren't soldiers.

[FGRSentinel]

There's a good reason that mutinies have to be approved

Mutinies don't need to be approved. The Mutiny rules even say that so long as the mutiny meets the other requirements, an adminhelped mutiny cannot be denied. In fact, the current mutiny rules are a bit lax on what constitutes a "win" condition for the mutineers: short of faxing HC to announce the CO's been removed from command and the admins deciding to have HC approve of the action, there's not really any way to remove the CO from power without breaking the mutiny rules, even if you manage to take him prisoner.

[BuxRagin]

That isn't accurate. Ask charlie from last night twice.