Report: CE Gerdy "Lurker" Grabbins

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Xennith
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Report: CE Gerdy "Lurker" Grabbins

Post by Xennith » 12 Aug 2018, 20:20

Your Byond Key:
Xennith

Your Character Name:
Ashley Parks

Accused Byond Key(if known):
SteelShanks (supposedly?)

Accused Character Name:
Gerdy "Lurker" Grabbins

Approximate time and date of the incident:
Around 5:40 central time, 8/12/2018

What rule(s) were broken:
Rules 3, 19, and possibly 8.

Description of the incident:
Immediately as I joined the round, and woke up in the cryo bay, I was approached by the chief engineer, Lieutenant Commander Gerdy "Lurker" Grabbins", who proceeded to shove a pill down my throat before I could even properly reply to what was going on.
I was immediately paralyzed by the mystery pill, and with no radio, I could do literally nothing but be dragged by him as my vision went fuzzy and began fading in and out of consciousness, unable to even see a lot of what was happening.
He then dragged me to the area above the meeting room (starboard of lower medbay), which as I popped in and out of consciousness appeared to be what I can only describe as some sort of rape dungeon, with isolated reinforced glass isolation cells.
It was around this time that I sent an adminhelp explaining that I had been forcefed a paralysis pill and had been abducted by the CE.
In one of my bouts of awakeness, I heard Gerdy say something to the extent of "Now you stay with Grabbins", shortly before Mortimer (bless his synthetic soul) showed up to stop the incident, give me a stimulant, and send me on my way before Grabbins could do whatever bullshit he was planning on doing with me.
The round was nearly over, so I went to get my gear and then return to the room so that I could tell the MPs I wanted to press charges, but by the time I arrived the CE had already gone SSD.

The round ended shortly after, and in OOC the player I'm told was the one who did it claimed that Mortimer likes to ruin fun, and that "everyone had consented", which I very clearly did not based on the screenshot below.
It was recommended to me that I make a forum report since my adminhelp got no response.

Evidence:
https://puu.sh/BdbF2/cd9625f06f.png Screenshot of the exact order in which things happened as I woke up.

How you would punish the accused:
If this isn't a thing that has really happened before, he probably just needs an official warning about this kind of behavior, but given what people were saying OOC, and that his choice of name makes this seem like a very deliberate choice, if this is like shit he's done before, it might warrant a job ban or temp ban.
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Re: Report: CE Gerdy "Lurker" Grabbins

Post by FracturedAntler » 12 Aug 2018, 20:28

Hey, I'm a witness (don't rule two me please). I was Maximilian Valentine, and I constructed his "rape dungeon" for him because I saw him being homeless in maintenance and I felt bad for him. And it was I who said "everyone had consented" in OOC because, well, that's what I thought happened. But I think you got abducted while I was in prison and getting executed (fun story).

Yeah, I can see why you'd make this report. I think Grabba' was just trying to have fun because he usually roleplays like this (it's a funny gimmick). I just think he went a little too far. I'm probably complicit in this as well because I think he just went a liiiitle too far, so I'd just give him a slap on the wrist or a warning to remind him of the rules. Oh, and all the other people involved it was either roleplayed out, or they consented and were having fun too. I just think it was a little scummy of him to abduct someone right out of hypersleep.

Sorry for what he did though, I only helped him out because he's a funny guy and I wanted to see where the "contest" he was planning would go.

"It is I! Skycaptain Maximilian Valentine! Captain of the skies..."

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Re: Report: CE Gerdy "Lurker" Grabbins

Post by Xennith » 12 Aug 2018, 20:35

Problem is I wasn't given a chance to consent, or even really to know what was going on or to interact at all, because I was constantly blacking out from whatever was in the paralysis pills he was using.

Plus, Rule 19 very plainly states:
Act like your given role - We’ve all seen the movies or played the games.
Marines are not mentally unstable. They are of sound mind and body, trained for war.

Someone as unhinged as Gerdy would never be a Lieutenant Commander, would never be the CE of the ship.
If people are going to roleplay as literally insane characters they can at least have the consideration of doing it as a PFC or at least a maintenance tech instead of as someone who is supposed to be one of the highest ranking officers on the ship.
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Re: Report: CE Gerdy "Lurker" Grabbins

Post by LittleBlast » 12 Aug 2018, 21:32

I was the XO this round - When I first saw Gerdy, he was running naked around read. I was going to ask the NO to have him arrested, but they refused. Round went on, I was mostly doing Odd jobs (Reqs work, Piloting Alamo - Cic was fully staffed so the CO had me helping other departments) when I received word from Mortimer for Mps to come to conference room. I was intrigued so I came, when I saw what was going on. It was honestly complete low-rp shittery. I could understand someone being a bit crazy but a good engineer, and be in that position, but this was full on insane.
If he did this as an MT it would be more acceptable, but as a CE well... not so much.

I would reccomend a Job ban from Command Roles (SO, XO, CE) and maybe MT.

Edit: The MP I talked to towards the start of the OP said that he was always like this, indicating that this is common behavior for him.
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Re: Report: CE Gerdy "Lurker" Grabbins

Post by Mrsteelshanks » 12 Aug 2018, 21:40

Hmm, I am not sure whether to be disappointing or offended at the way you have attempted to twist this into some sort of drama that was personal against you, or so it seems. There is something i cant put my finger on though
So lets clear things up,
You arrived into the round very late, If you want the specifics. The Den that the medical research and Valentine kindly made for him got turned into a bar near round start, drinking club, dancing show and all other matter of comical shananigans had taking place, I believe one researcher shared around hallugenics at somepoint while i was working with many many players being involved and even more happy or willing to engage in the role-play. It was entertaining and fun for a great majority of us and i can only commend the brilliant and good natured way many accepted or engaged with it, Especially the MPs. It seems when everybody make moments like that they are some of the best tongue in cheek humor you can find. Dire sattire so to say. People enjoy interacting with it, I actually started or was involved in very little of anything else that happened in there yet had to spend most of the round being blamed and tasered/beaten for it, I chalked it up to the fun of it.
I just so happened to be wondering along from one end of the ship after somebody decided to go SSD in there, you were the first person i bumped into. Yes, i was looking for people to bring into the den for whatever reasons, Absolutely NOTHING was EVER forced on you or anybody else, You are literally the ONLY person who seems to of raised a real problem with it so you can imagine my surprise when i got told somebody was salting about it on here, I was actually shocked. But ill listen to what you have to say and let others judge for themselves
Lets clarify, I gave you PLENTY of time to refuse swallowing the sleepy pill which lasted all of a minute or so and you choose not too. Dont you dare even attempt to pass it off like you didn't or couldn't of refused to stop it. Call it a coessential Grabba-knappin. You could of moved away, resisted, easily and you know it. The "time" you returned with your gear and gun ready to murder me or so i am told (which i WOULD of accepted and laughed at your right to do so with it) The round was ended. I was conversing with friends in dead-chat and on discord laughing about the round as many do when finished.
One person did note it was suspicious how Mortimer made a beeline for you with the means to counter the sleepy pill however, but never mind its not important
Mortimer getting called a killjoy was good natured joking, Nobody actually meant it. We all love mortimer

I AM curious exactly WHAT the problem you have is,
Rest assured, If you would rather both i and others don't engage with you for whatever reason we wont. But i don't really think you want that or would enjoy people doing that. Who would, this was end game moments and i know more than one player got caught up in the moments, no names mentioned. I also am not sure WHERE people get the fucked up idea some sort of rapey ERP dungeon was being run. Nothing of the sort, I don't deal in ERP, never have, anyone saying otherwise is lying as was addressed in deadchat.
I can only say i am disappointing as hell in you for trying to twist this into some wacky personal attack on you given how good both as RPer and Player i know you to be. I honestly do not think anyone went too far either. Nothing was done that nobody couldn't of walked away from if they wanted. If you are seriously trying to say that then its cringe-worthy. The most that happened was people were put into glass tanks and asked to dance for cash, Not sure who started the charging of entry though, EVERY single person who went in there ended up choosing too play along, and ALL were given the chance to go, as were you. Kinda scratching my head that you were happy not to object or do anything real to stop it until AFTER then decide to post this?
If you are compliant please expect us to take that as a blessing to carry on, that kind of works in ALL manner of RP engagement on CM.

The only thing that went wrong that round is i was rolled in as a C.E and didn't realize until way late into the game, needless to say. The ship was kept running perfectly fine, Floors cleaned, engines fixed, lights replaced. And if you had actually interacted with Gerdy before you would know he is far from unhinged. Sorry


But fine,
If your feelings were hurt by what you see as a personal attack, it was not. I apologize, Ill take more notice of what my job list for Gerdy is set too. Maximilian Valentine has nothing to do with anything that could of been problematic here so i really wouldn't want him getting any sort of dressing down for it either. This whole posts leaves a sour feeling in me, i dont like it at all. I rarely leave the maintenance tunnels as Gerdy and tonight was an exception given everything that was going on, Its people choice to be as offended by something as they are and ill respect the right to be if it suits them. But i personally get the feeling the is a another motive at work here with people trying to claim i was acting batshit crazy, I wasn't. The two people i see complaining had minimal if not zero interaction with me the whole round. I wont be blamed for the explosive fuck fest that happened i wasn't there at the time, Or the braking of kneecaps, or the drunken M.Ps, Or the stealing of the liaisons suits, yet again poor Grabba catches the blame IC, And that is okay by me. Again i can remind any of the low RP shittery in my conference room was NOT instigated by me or did i have a part in it. People tend to migrate to where the good times at, They want to interact and be apart of it, Just so happened it was where my bed and blanket where. I DID get the full fury of the M.PS come goose stepping onto Grabba ass for it though, and again. That is absolutely okay by me.

I get asked to play Gerdy more so have been, People seem to like having a maintenance ghoul lurking in the shadows fixing the ship and stealing foods and occasionally peeping on the liason while he is in his office of taking a shower. He was a myth for over two years until he got caught by Thomas Echard, something ill never forgive myself for. He takes a lot of work to play but i have been told some of funniest rounds people of had involved him, I have been playing him more recently, There is nothing toxic about him. I will keep my distance from you though if you want, the last thing i ever want to do is spoil somebody's enjoyment of a round
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Re: Report: CE Gerdy "Lurker" Grabbins

Post by Xennith » 12 Aug 2018, 22:44

I find it kind of odd that all I did was recite events as they appeared from my perspective, and you're trying to twist it into me being 'personally hurt' over something you did.
Your long-winded and rambling response and justification for your actions only serves as an example of how defensive you've immediately become over a general report of concerning conduct.

Furthermore, the screenshot doesn't lie- there was not a minute between those text entries, it was a matter of seconds. You said "Here" and *immediately* began force-feeding me the pill while I was typing something.
I don't know if you assumed that my lack of movement somehow meant that I wanted in on your character's kidnappy, unhinged roleplay, but it's not about whether or not I felt 'personally hurt' over it or not, and personally I couldn't care less, I've been through way worse in SS13 than a crazy engineer building darkened abduction-dungeons.

What does concern me is that I entered into the round, and was immediately forcefed a drug that knocked me out cold by someone with the rank of Lieutenant Commander, who proceeded to drag me around against my will.
I latejoined the round, I had no idea how the situation on the ground was going, and I don't know anything about how you managed your duties prior to whatever psycho-RP shenanigans you decided to jump into.

Literally all I did was report my experience from beginning to end of the round, and that's all.
If anyone has twisted a report into a personal attack, it's the guy who responds to a pretty concise report with what I can only paraphrase as "You're the only one who spoke up about this being a problem, don't be so sensitive."

And for the record, as much as I like Mortimer, I have no idea who plays him. Your implication that I called for metahelp is frankly insulting, and demonstrates just how far you're reaching to defend actions that are, completely regardless of how I feel about them, clearly against the rules.

My description of the room you created as a rape-dungeon in no way was meant to imply that you intended to forcibly ERP with me, or anyone else, it's simply the only way I can imagine describing what I saw concisely.
It was a darkened room with multiple glass isolation cells, broken glass and bottles strewn about, with blood smears on the floor and all manner of debris.
I don't know nor care what your RP was actually going to entail.
You were the CE, you abducted a marine without any real cause, using paralysis drugs, to drag them to a private room so you could RP as a crazy person.
If your excuse is that you didn't notice that you were the chief engineer, that's not just disappointing, it's downright stupid.

Edit:
And let me make this very, very clear:
I was forcefed the paralysis pill while I was typing.
The change in my text from "what-" was my response, mid-typing, to the pill being jammed in my face.
I had a few seconds to reply after that, at which point my character started blacking out.
As I was being dragged I only had small windows of consciousness with which to respond to what was happening, I literally could not get up, or resist, in any way.
I did not actually even get to properly respond to anything, or even see what was totally going on, until after Mortimer arrived to seemingly rescue me, at which point I was told, by Mortimer, to move along and grab my gear.
I don't know what the CE thought his drugs were doing, but I barely saw anything of what was said to me, if I was being spoken to at all.
I at no point really had the ability to decline to participate, or walk away from what was happening.
The only thing I could have potentially done, which I admit that I chose not to, was to use LOOC to make an inquiry as to what was going on.
I chose to, instead, send an ahelp, because I don't make it a habit of trying to negotiate OOCly with players that I think might be griefing, I send an ahelp and let the mods sort it out.
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Re: Report: CE Gerdy "Lurker" Grabbins

Post by Mrsteelshanks » 13 Aug 2018, 00:28

I cant help but notice you didn't actually add anything here, I pointed out what other people were mentioning after the round end. Since i didn't see most of it. But it seems you are only looking for one thing either way, An apology was never going to be enough. Last word an all that. You know you could of made it clear at any time you didn't want to be part of it, you didn't, Instead you choose to sit back and A-help. Fair enough. I do not think this is going to go anywhere. You got an apology, what else can i do, You just seem to want a argument. I don't.
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Re: Report: CE Gerdy "Lurker" Grabbins

Post by Xennith » 13 Aug 2018, 01:22

You're definitely correct, I'm not happy with your apology, because it doesn't read as genuine, to me.
You not once apologized for the obvious rule violations that you're breaking- most notably appropriate marine behavior- the apology you gave, no matter how many times I read it, comes off as "I'm sorry your feelings got hurt.", which is neither the actual problem that I have with the situation, or the point of making the report.
I'm reporting a rule violation, not that my feelings were hurt, and I dislike that that's where you keep trying to redirect the conversation.

The fact that you see nothing wrong with what you did except for maybe fact that you did it as CE is what actually rubs me the wrong way.

The point is not that you should be apologizing for "hurting my feelings", it's that you should be apologizing for roleplaying as a crazy, unhinged marine when the rules say pretty clearly not to do that.
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Re: Report: CE Gerdy "Lurker" Grabbins

Post by Mrsteelshanks » 13 Aug 2018, 12:58

Xennith wrote:
13 Aug 2018, 01:22
You're definitely correct, I'm not happy with your apology, because it doesn't read as genuine, to me.
Where i am from, We do not apologize unless we mean it. Maybe my attempts at typing english got mixed up somewhere but its obvious to me and those reading you are looking to drag this out, You just want to go in circles here. Like i said, I do not think you really want an apology, You want to be right and win an argument. I refuse to be part of that.
I do not know what else i can do to make you happy, but i do not think that was ever a possibility either to begin with sadly. I wish you well but will leave it to the admins to decide if i need to be punished, Any reprimand they feel is deserved ill accept as i often find they make the fairest decisions from what i see.
You consider a rule was broken, I disagree given the circumstances, We will agree to disagree. Maybe i am wrong, That doesn't mean i do not feel bad that i ruined your round for you, or what was left of it, nobody could like that at all.

I will definitely be paying more attention in the future though to avoid an experience like this, its a first time for me in over three years of playing somebody has complained about me. Not fun
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Re: Report: CE Gerdy "Lurker" Grabbins

Post by Denied_Existence » 14 Aug 2018, 14:07

I've heard radio comments about Gerdy being very weird/creepy on several rounds. I have not interacted with him personally, but what I've heard from those rounds has put up red flags for me. If I recall correctly, his nickname previously was 'Grabby' instead of 'Lurker', and he is indeed regularly clotheless.

I also remember at least one or two CMO rounds where he was bugging a researcher for drugs, perhaps this is a common occurance?
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Re: Report: CE Gerdy "Lurker" Grabbins

Post by Mrsteelshanks » 14 Aug 2018, 14:31

Denied_Existence wrote:
14 Aug 2018, 14:07


I also remember at least one or two CMO rounds where he was bugging a researcher for drugs, perhaps this is a common occurrence?
This is an outright lie and you know it, You must be very proud. I have never tried to get any drugs before for any reason. The most have seen of him is from the maintenance tunnels when i need to get somewhere quick, Out of sight out of mind. You clearly haven't interacted with him ever or likely ever been in a round with him from what i can tell.
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Re: Report: CE Gerdy "Lurker" Grabbins

Post by Denied_Existence » 14 Aug 2018, 14:37

Mrsteelshanks wrote:
14 Aug 2018, 14:31
I have never tried to get any drugs before for any reason.
Mrsteelshanks wrote:
12 Aug 2018, 21:40
Lets clarify, I gave you PLENTY of time to refuse swallowing the sleepy pill which lasted all of a minute or so and you choose not too. Dont you dare even attempt to pass it off like you didn't or couldn't of refused to stop it. Call it a coessential Grabba-knappin. You could of moved away, resisted, easily and you know it.
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Re: Report: CE Gerdy "Lurker" Grabbins

Post by Mrsteelshanks » 14 Aug 2018, 15:20

Denied_Existence wrote:
14 Aug 2018, 14:37
Your being pedantic, I meant before this round.
I would ask you to give time or dates when i have tried before, we both know they do not exist. You and i both know you lied, lets leave it at that. Do not post again unless you are actually going offer something valid to the thread please. Dishonesty is not nice, whatever your intention
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Re: Report: CE Gerdy "Lurker" Grabbins

Post by Denied_Existence » 14 Aug 2018, 16:28

I obviously don't have dates as I didn't note much on your behavior until now, but it was recently, perhaps this past week even. I've said my piece, and I have no reason to lie.
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Re: Report: CE Gerdy "Lurker" Grabbins

Post by Mrsteelshanks » 14 Aug 2018, 18:33

Denied_Existence wrote:
14 Aug 2018, 16:28
I obviously don't have dates as I didn't note much on your behavior until now, but it was recently, perhaps this past week even. I've said my piece, and I have no reason to lie.
Then you are mistaken, and ill believe it is a honest mistake. That round was the first time i asked for some sleeping pills, and it may of been a seriously bad choice at the as we see, to use them to for short while put somebody to sleep. There was no toxic or troll intended. As stated, People were given plenty of chances to avoid, leave or not participate. Plenty did and enjoyed it the RP and round. I spoke with a couple of people and they have since told me that although i may not of been directly involved or responsible. My actions were a catalyst to some stupidity that round, Which i can only apologize for. That was never the intention. I just do not find it fair that i am being painted with a griefy/toxic brush when i am far from it. You are right about my pant wearing run around, Which were suppose to be tailored to the character, but since some RP interaction. I now wear my uniform out in the inhabited parts of the ship when needed. I really never saw it as a big a problem when nobody can see me. As there are you two willing to say im some wild, mad trouble making asshole. I believe there are plenty more who will speak highly of me and my roleplay, and contribution to rounds.

As to the reporter. While i couldnt put my finger on something, I feel it was an overreaction. But ill take note of what you say, and promise you nothing is insincere. I already said playing with you in game i know you are nothing but a good player and fun to interact with.
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Re: Report: CE Gerdy "Lurker" Grabbins

Post by Jakkkk » 14 Aug 2018, 19:40

Hey, I play Mortimer the synthetic, and being involved I think I should give my two cents.

My story matches up with Xennith's, where I walked into the weird dungeon and saw that she was in a glass cage. Grabbins told me not to release her or something, but believing that the life of the marine was endangered, I opened the glass cage and took her out of the room. During that time I believe Ashley said that she was drugged, and once we were out of the room, I gave her dylovene to deal with the toxin damage and sent her on her way to get geared up. At this point I believed that Grabbins was a danger to the mission, so I stepped back into the room and called for the MPs. To stop him from leaving, I bodyblocked the exit of his bar counter thing, and then the round shortly ended.

All in all, I firmly believe Steelshanks griefed this player by forcefeeding them a pill and dragged them to his weird, dark conference room. Logs are gonna be posted later to prove if this is true or not, if I can't get a mod to do it I'll try my best to get all relevant logs.
Olaf's dossier: viewtopic.php?f=91&t=16128
Mortimer: viewtopic.php?f=149&t=16195
Xarvis Ut'ur-era: viewtopic.php?f=124&t=17817

Synthetic Council Term One, along with Sleepy Retard and MattAtlas.

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Re: Report: CE Gerdy "Lurker" Grabbins

Post by Mrsteelshanks » 14 Aug 2018, 20:14

Jakkkk wrote:
14 Aug 2018, 19:40
Hey, I play Mortimer the synthetic, and being involved I think I should give my two cents.

My story matches up with Xennith's, where I walked into the weird dungeon and saw that she was in a glass cage. Grabbins told me not to release her or something, but believing that the life of the marine was endangered, I opened the glass cage and took her out of the room. During that time I believe Ashley said that she was drugged, and once we were out of the room, I gave her dylovene to deal with the toxin damage and sent her on her way to get geared up. At this point I believed that Grabbins was a danger to the mission, so I stepped back into the room and called for the MPs. To stop him from leaving, I bodyblocked the exit of his bar counter thing, and then the round shortly ended.

All in all, I firmly believe Steelshanks griefed this player by forcefeeding them a pill and dragged them to his weird, dark conference room. Logs are gonna be posted later to prove if this is true or not, if I can't get a mod to do it I'll try my best to get all relevant logs.
They will and people will be able to see what went on in there through the round! Who spoke and said what, I was sure you had already been in there, but obviously not. it got very confusing when different people started scrapping, And i never learned why. I completely understand why you did what you did now, But i was sure you had been in already with the MPs?. Maybe i was mistaken. I thought you were finding comedy in the moment. Apologies
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Re: Report: CE Gerdy "Lurker" Grabbins

Post by Mrsteelshanks » 14 Aug 2018, 20:15

Mrsteelshanks wrote:
14 Aug 2018, 20:14
They will and people will be able to see what went on in there through the round! Who spoke and said what, I was sure you had already been in there, but obviously not. it got very confusing when different people started scrapping, And i never learned why. I completely understand why you did what you did now, But i was sure you had been in already with the MPs?. Maybe i was mistaken. I thought you were finding comedy in the moment. And i assure all NO grief was intended. Apologies, I can do little more than that.
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Re: Report: CE Gerdy "Lurker" Grabbins

Post by Jakkkk » 14 Aug 2018, 20:58

Relevant logs, first time log diving so if I didn't get anything please let me know.

Ashley Parks gets drugged.
► Show Spoiler
Ashley Parks is placed in the conference room.
► Show Spoiler
Mortimer enters the scene.
► Show Spoiler
Ashley Parks leaves, Mortimer and XO Kennard Davis ask Grabbins what's going on.
► Show Spoiler
The XO leaves, now just Mortimer and Grabbins. This occurs during when Mortimer blocks Grabbin's exit with his body.
► Show Spoiler
Olaf's dossier: viewtopic.php?f=91&t=16128
Mortimer: viewtopic.php?f=149&t=16195
Xarvis Ut'ur-era: viewtopic.php?f=124&t=17817

Synthetic Council Term One, along with Sleepy Retard and MattAtlas.

"Harry, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Every day, once a day, give yourself a present. Don't plan it. Don't wait for it. Just let it happen. It could be a new shirt at the men's store, a catnap in your office chair, or two cups of good, hot black coffee."

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Mrsteelshanks
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Posts: 22
Joined: 12 Mar 2017, 19:13
Location: Brighton
Byond: Mrsteelshanks
Steam: Steelshanks
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Re: Report: CE Gerdy "Lurker" Grabbins

Post by Mrsteelshanks » 14 Aug 2018, 21:56

Jakkkk wrote:
14 Aug 2018, 20:58
Relevant logs, first time log diving so if I didn't get anything please let me know.

Ashley Parks gets drugged.
► Show Spoiler
Ashley Parks is placed in the conference room.
► Show Spoiler
Mortimer enters the scene.
► Show Spoiler
Ashley Parks leaves, Mortimer and XO Kennard Davis ask Grabbins what's going on.
► Show Spoiler
The XO leaves, now just Mortimer and Grabbins. This occurs during when Mortimer blocks Grabbin's exit with his body.
► Show Spoiler
I ghosted for round end and to speak to friends in discord.
Player of Steelshanks & Grabber

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Imperator_Titan
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Posts: 884
Joined: 05 Oct 2016, 13:14
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Byond: Imperator_Titan

Re: Report: CE Gerdy "Lurker" Grabbins

Post by Imperator_Titan » 19 Aug 2018, 12:22

Player will be receiving a CE jobban for this behaviour. There's no reason whatsoever to head out and start kidnapping marines and even moreso marines who don't consent, which falls into grief territory. Just because nobody complained up until now doesn't mean that it was "okay" to do. Be more reasonable in the future.

MT will be left open however, I believe there may be room for improvement.

Feel free to appeal this in one month's time from this post.

Resolved : CE jobban placed.

Locked