Katashi Juro vs. The state of CM

[BruceJuice69]

Hey, Bruice Juice 69 here


So about a week ago I was trying to think of a new and interesting character to play CM on since I was getting kind of bored with how generic my current character was. I thought “Hey! Why don’t I give him an accent that’d be cool”. So I went ahead and made Katashi Juro, I figured that the easiest accent to do would be that Japanese samurai accent that you see in movies since it’s so over the top it’d be easy to make it clear what kind of accent it is. So I went ahead and started playin some good ‘ol cm. Recently though, I started getting some flak from a few players and one of the admins.

The player report made on me is here: viewtopic.php?f=63&t=18399

So in the end the player report was resolved in my favor but I was told by imperator_titan to tone it down a little. I agreed and did my best to tone it down, I replaced some of the aru’s with the much subtler u’s and didn’t yell so much. Today and yesterday though I was bwoinked several times by another admin who didn’t think I was toning it down enough. He said that my character was “low rp” and that I was breaking rule no. 1. He said unless I stopped playing Katashi Juro or stopped using an accent I would be banned. He also mentioned that he was the one who managed the appeals, which also bothered me since he was the one who was going to ban me. Rule 1 states:

“Colonial Marines is intended to be a Medium Roleplay server. Treat your character as a separate entity from you, the player. Your character's actions, feelings, and knowledge in-game should be based solely on the character's experiences and not your own as the player. Each round is a fresh start with no knowledge of the previous one carrying over. You as a player might know where a hidden stash of weapons is located from the last round, but your character does not. Acting upon knowledge your character does not have is metagaming (see: No metagaming or metacommunication rule below). This rule may be ignored in some game modes such as Whiskey Outpost and other “Survival”-type maps that pit escaping marines against waves of enemies”

So I read through it and told him that I thought my character was medium rp. It defines medium rp right there in the rule, according to the CM rules medium rp is where you play as a character separate from yourself, and that how your character acts during the round is based on what your character has experienced and not what you have experienced. I think that my character fully meets these requirements. In fact the only requirement I see for something to be medium rp is that your character is a character which Katashi Juro undoubtedly is.

I understand that admins have the power to interpret the rules but really i’d Like a second opinion. People of CM , bannu? Or no bannu.

[Chaznoodles]

If I went around as Mason calling everyone "my nigga" and threatening to pop a cap in the ass of anyone disrespecting me, it'd be a ban. Over the top racism is still racism. Medium roleplay still involves creating a believable character, not a caricature of racial stereotypes.

[Slduggy]

If I went around as Mason calling everyone "my nigga" and threatening to pop a cap in the ass of anyone disrespecting me, it'd be a ban. Over the top racism is still racism. Medium roleplay still involves creating a believable character, not a caricature of racial stereotypes.

I cannot tell the difference between Juro and the countless other "Stereotype" characters we have on CM. There are characters whom are just as comical and cartoony but we don't bat an eye at them.

Plus I think his shtick is hilarious.

[BruceJuice69]

I completely agree! Also the difference between me and you Mr. Chaznoodles is that I don’t use racial slurs. It’s not like I’m demeaning Japanese people by running around saying stuff like “ hurr durr I eat your doggaru”. I’m just rping a guy who talks like a stereotype Japanese samurai character. Hollywood does it, half the server rps as a foreigner. If you look at the chat log it looks like a list of UN representatives.

[Chaznoodles]

Mr. Chaznoodles

[Challenger]

You're not realy the first person in the history of this server to have an annoying gimmick. We had "ta" guy and Aoi Bell if you'd like to review some history.

"Ta" guy was famous for taking up command roles and ending every sentence fragment he said with "ta". "Rush the caves ta" "pull back, marines, ta" ""Officer, that's ridiculous ta". He didn't really roleplay much past being a tourette's manchild. The response to the ta tic gimmick varied by individual but was somewhere on the line between indifferent to hate. He was also really annoying because whenever there was the inevitable IC pushback on his gimmick of the form of superiors telling him to shut the fuck up, he'd throw a massive tantrum and just keep spamming his tas and derelicting his duties and such. During lowpop hours he'd take the role of XO because there would rarely be a CO above him to tell him to STFU (there were glorious times when a CO did latejoin and shoot his face off for it). Eventually we got a player report against him and there were two staff opinions: 1. "annoying" people, or people with annoying speech patterns, or tourettes or whatever like that, would simply not realistically get promoted to any leadership roles because no one would want to work with them, and 2. his lowrp reactions to IC pushback were too far and he got banned for those.

Aoi Bell was famous for being a powergaming, rules-not-very-respecting japanese character. He'd steal shit, start fights, fight the "optimal" way that mechanics allowed him to like taking two rifles with gyros and suppressors (when that was OP), etc. and did not make very many friends and pissed people off IC. However - and this wasn't noticed by everyone - he actually did RP a Japanese person with a coherent, believable backstory and actions who was a little bit retarded. Part of that did involve a speech gimmick, but it was more nuanced than just adding -u onto the end of every sentence, it was more like "give too gyro" when asking for his two gyroscopic attachments at the RO line, stuff like that. Regardless, he was an asshole OOC too so eventually he got banned by apop for being a "racist stereotype" but I'm pretty sure that wasn't the real reason.

Feel free to decide how these two stories affect your own character

[nekcy]

I need paperu is gold, i rike it

[BruceJuice69]

Thanks for the feedback. Never heard of the Ta guy but I’ve heard of bell. I don’t think either of them fully apply to my character. I ask people pretty frequently in looc if it annoys them and they say it doesn’t. I’ve never been told to shut up when I play command, and I don’t jerk around and power game. I’m pretty sure I’ve never been brigged. Also I’m sure I could make a lore friendly backstory which explains why there’s a Japanese guy in the USCM.

[Heckenshutze]

Being honest with you, I had fun with this even if I hated it ICly, the problem here is that you exploited your gimmick in a command role, people expect certain level of RP standard in certain roles, I bet you can still be a gimmick jap as a PFC, since squad marine is the role that is most open to have such quirks

[Renomaki]

I remember one time a certain player with CO whitelist decided he wanted to play as a black commander with a ghetto, embarrassingly stereotypical personality. I was part of the staff at the time of witnessing this, and the whole staff team was completely devided on how to handle it.

He spoke like a street thug and gave a man a medal of heroics for bringing a drink machine full of grape drink to the CiC, making a massive mockery of the command structure to the point that higher ranking staff had to come in and tell him to knock it off. ICly, he was forced to step down from his leadership position, but OOCly he was able to keep his whitelist.

some time later, we got Heinz, who became a big meme due to how he would rework the entire marine corps into the German Grenadiers, which Feweh would capitalize on and end up turning him into a nazi a few times. Nowadays he has toned it down a lot, but he still is a fairly popular commander in the community.

[Sora9567]

Hmm, I'd tone it down juuust a notch or two so it's easier to understand what your character is saying. Aside from a few moments where it's unclear what you said, your character is fine in my opinion. During dicey moments you tend to rally marines well and out of all the "gimmicky" command officers, yours is probably the most tolerable. There were some eye-rolling/cringe moments, but those are better than the "Hard-ass SOs" or the "Barely attentive CIC Lemming Brigade."

As for the "realism" of your character being an officer in the USCM, I like to think that the Upper Brass's thoughts were "Yeah, dude's sometimes hard to understand, but damnit... He can rally a squad like nobody's business."

TL;DR I think it's fine, tone down the speaking mannerisms from an 8 to a 7 or a 6.

[BruceJuice69]

Yeah and that’s the problem. I was pretty much told to lose the accent entirely or stop playing the character or I’d get banned. The main point of this thread is to change the admins minds so I don’t get ding dong bannu as soon as I join.

[CABAL]

Go with your own country sterotype. Nobody will blame you. If you would really be Japanese, there wouldn't be a talk about it, even if you would behave exactly the same:
"Kurła... Kurrrrrła jebany... Kwiiii! Czołem wielkiej bolsce." - See? I can mock my own things.

Admins are already giving much leeway with things like "gay" and "furry". You can stright up "insult" somebody that he is "gay" and nobody will bat an eye here. Try it on non-combat servers and count seconds to bwoinks.

[Build_R_]

I like accents but sometimes they make communication completely incomprehensible. I remember a PO with a lisp and I only understood about every other sentence that he spoke. I haven't really had that issue when Juro's in command but it does take a little extra time to 'decipher' the message, maybe if you're telling the marines something important just add an accent to one or two words?

That's really the only issue I might have with it, good player and a decent gimmick otherwise.

[BruceJuice69]

Go with your own country sterotype. Nobody will blame you. If you would really be Japanese, there wouldn't be a talk about it, even if you would behave exactly the same:
"Kurła... Kurrrrrła jebany... Kwiiii! Czołem wielkiej bolsce." - See? I can mock my own things.

Admins are already giving much leeway with things like "gay" and "furry". You can stright up "insult" somebody that he is "gay" and nobody will bat an eye here. Try it on non-combat servers and count seconds to bwoinks.

I think if the admins cared if I was Japanese or not they would have asked me. I just don’t see how my gimmick is bannable while we have a commander who thinks he’s some kind of feudal lord, a Spanish guy who’s nickname is something like “ay caramba”, and Heinz.

[caleeb101]

fobaru is one of my all time favourite phrases lmao

I don't think the gimmick is really racist but my opinion doesn't really matter and the senior mod has already commented on it. I doubt you can change the staffs minds on this with a thread so you're just gonna have to tone it down which will probably make it lame or stop playing Juro unfortunately. No two ways about it.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

It's a fine balance playing a immigrant, I've even been bwoinked for the Spanish.

So I will give you some tips because I don't think there's anything wrong with Katashi Juro, as your character reminds me a lot as Samurai Futaba from Saturday Night Live.
Instead of the accent you can incorporate common japanese phrases in normal sentences

I wouldn't bwoink you for calling someone a baka (fool) or saying arigato (thank you)
If you used simple english instead of just adding arus you would be ok.

It's the same as someone pretending to speak spanish by ending the -o sound at the end
It just doesn't work

https://youtu.be/U1-zVXSN7kg

[BruceJuice69]

Well the accent is what makes it fun. I do occasionally say some Japanese stuff but if I JUST did that and not the accent it would make it pretty lame like Caleeb said. I think a good compromise would be limiting myself to 2-3 accented words per sentence.


And thanks for the link! Never seen that guy till now he’s pretty funny

[ThesoldierLLJK]

If I went around as Mason calling everyone "my nigga" and threatening to pop a cap in the ass of anyone disrespecting me, it'd be a ban. Over the top racism is still racism.

Yeah, although it would be consider plain racist if he went around calling everyone Gaijin, or "round eye fuck"
It really is a fine balance, most of us staff know players (myself included) want to do the immigrant diversity thing.
You have to figure out what works and what doesn't work.

[Xennith]

As someone who has played a character with a stereotypical accent for a very long time, I feel like I can simplify the problem you're experiencing:

The problem is that the racial stereotype gimmick seems to be the entire character.

There's a dramatic difference between the perception of a character that includes a racial stereotype, and a character that is entirely a racial stereotype.
Effective leader or not, competent player or not, if the way you express the character is just the stereotype, it is going to rub people the wrong way.

That said, Juro is not the only example of this problem, and there are other players who have similarly simplistic stereotypical characters who don't get called out on it, and maybe should.
Slav gopnik CHEEKI BREEKI shit is still pretty common. One of the differences between them and Juro is simply that all you have to do to make your character sound Slav is to shuffle the way you use words slightly, and insert shit like "cyka" in every once in a while, and people will hear it in their heads as Russian because of the way we commonly hear people use words in that way.

Ivan Slavovich: "Yes, is good day to go to war."
Evan Simpson: "Yes, it's a good day for war."

The end result is a lot less jarring, it's still easy to understand what's being said without actually having to filter it in your brain, and even though it's just as much of a stereotype, it doesn't come off the same way, even though it should.

Ijoshi Sukuda: "Hai, it is good day for waru! Banzai!"

The expression of the stereotypical accent requires more adjustment to standard English, so it reads weirder, requires actual awareness instead of reflex, and so is more jarring for people.

In my experience though, it doesn't actually matter if you do that kind of stuff if you go out of your way to make a more complicated character than that. If all you are is that stereotype, it's gonna irritate people, but if you wrap the stereotype around a more legitimate and interesting character, people are way more likely to accept it.

Whether or not Katashi Juro is actually a deeper character than the stereotype is up for debate, and up to YOU as the creator to decide, but if you want people to see him as more than just the stereotype, you have to work a lot harder to show that.


I played a semi-famous French-ish character in SS13 for years, complete with a sometimes difficult to read accent, but it never really got trashed on the way I see people trash on Juro, and I think it was because I went out of my way to make sure it was a more well-rounded character than just being that stereotype... even if all I really had to do was throw in entirely different bundles of cliches.

If you want Juro to be accepted, what you'll have to do is find a zen balance between having a ridiculous accent, and coming across as a character who is more than just his accent.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

I would say you should try to emulate how Sonny Chiba or Ken Wantanbe speak English

[Cry of Wolves]

As someone who has played a character with a stereotypical accent for a very long time, I feel like I can simplify the problem you're experiencing:

The problem is that the racial stereotype gimmick seems to be the entire character.

There's a dramatic difference between the perception of a character that includes a racial stereotype, and a character that is entirely a racial stereotype.
Effective leader or not, competent player or not, if the way you express the character is just the stereotype, it is going to rub people the wrong way.

That said, Juro is not the only example of this problem, and there are other players who have similarly simplistic stereotypical characters who don't get called out on it, and maybe should.
Slav gopnik CHEEKI BREEKI shit is still pretty common. One of the differences between them and Juro is simply that all you have to do to make your character sound Slav is to shuffle the way you use words slightly, and insert shit like "cyka" in every once in a while, and people will hear it in their heads as Russian because of the way we commonly hear people use words in that way.

Ivan Slavovich: "Yes, is good day to go to war."
Evan Simpson: "Yes, it's a good day for war."

The end result is a lot less jarring, it's still easy to understand what's being said without actually having to filter it in your brain, and even though it's just as much of a stereotype, it doesn't come off the same way, even though it should.

Ijoshi Sukuda: "Hai, it is good day for waru! Banzai!"

The expression of the stereotypical accent requires more adjustment to standard English, so it reads weirder, requires actual awareness instead of reflex, and so is more jarring for people.

In my experience though, it doesn't actually matter if you do that kind of stuff if you go out of your way to make a more complicated character than that. If all you are is that stereotype, it's gonna irritate people, but if you wrap the stereotype around a more legitimate and interesting character, people are way more likely to accept it.

Whether or not Katashi Juro is actually a deeper character than the stereotype is up for debate, and up to YOU as the creator to decide, but if you want people to see him as more than just the stereotype, you have to work a lot harder to show that.


I played a semi-famous French-ish character in SS13 for years, complete with a sometimes difficult to read accent, but it never really got trashed on the way I see people trash on Juro, and I think it was because I went out of my way to make sure it was a more well-rounded character than just being that stereotype... even if all I really had to do was throw in entirely different bundles of cliches.

If you want Juro to be accepted, what you'll have to do is find a zen balance between having a ridiculous accent, and coming across as a character who is more than just his accent.

THIS

[biscuitsakimbo]

Yeah man the accent is funny as fuck, your RP is higher than the vast majority of the server, and the staff are overly touchy about it.

[BruceJuice69]

As someone who has played a character with a stereotypical accent for a very long time, I feel like I can simplify the problem you're experiencing:

The problem is that the racial stereotype gimmick seems to be the entire character.

There's a dramatic difference between the perception of a character that includes a racial stereotype, and a character that is entirely a racial stereotype.
Effective leader or not, competent player or not, if the way you express the character is just the stereotype, it is going to rub people the wrong way.

That said, Juro is not the only example of this problem, and there are other players who have similarly simplistic stereotypical characters who don't get called out on it, and maybe should.
Slav gopnik CHEEKI BREEKI shit is still pretty common. One of the differences between them and Juro is simply that all you have to do to make your character sound Slav is to shuffle the way you use words slightly, and insert shit like "cyka" in every once in a while, and people will hear it in their heads as Russian because of the way we commonly hear people use words in that way.

Ivan Slavovich: "Yes, is good day to go to war."
Evan Simpson: "Yes, it's a good day for war."

The end result is a lot less jarring, it's still easy to understand what's being said without actually having to filter it in your brain, and even though it's just as much of a stereotype, it doesn't come off the same way, even though it should.

Ijoshi Sukuda: "Hai, it is good day for waru! Banzai!"

The expression of the stereotypical accent requires more adjustment to standard English, so it reads weirder, requires actual awareness instead of reflex, and so is more jarring for people.

In my experience though, it doesn't actually matter if you do that kind of stuff if you go out of your way to make a more complicated character than that. If all you are is that stereotype, it's gonna irritate people, but if you wrap the stereotype around a more legitimate and interesting character, people are way more likely to accept it.

Whether or not Katashi Juro is actually a deeper character than the stereotype is up for debate, and up to YOU as the creator to decide, but if you want people to see him as more than just the stereotype, you have to work a lot harder to show that.


I played a semi-famous French-ish character in SS13 for years, complete with a sometimes difficult to read accent, but it never really got trashed on the way I see people trash on Juro, and I think it was because I went out of my way to make sure it was a more well-rounded character than just being that stereotype... even if all I really had to do was throw in entirely different bundles of cliches.

If you want Juro to be accepted, what you'll have to do is find a zen balance between having a ridiculous accent, and coming across as a character who is more than just his accent.

Yeah I get that. I’ve always been trying to make it so the accent ISN’T the whole character because I completely agree. I think that the main gimmick is that my character talks with a ridiculous accent but other than that he’s just a normal guy who does his job, pays his taxes, and feeds his cat. In other words, I think I do a half decent job at rping without the accent as the whole focus, but I may be wrong I dunno. That doesn’t really seem like the problem to most people, or the admins who said the reason it was bad and I should get banned is because it’s racist and it’s unrealistic, and I think it’s not racist or unrealistic, but I’m not allowed to think anything about it because the admins can twist the rules in any way they want. I think for something as subjective as this the players should be able to give some input.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

the staff are overly touchy about it.

It’s not that we’re overly touchy about it. Someone reported him and players have ahelped about it, which means what he does is effecting someone’s gameplay and experience

I personally encourage him however to figure out the fine balance where he can do it, but not get in trouble for it.