Which faction is the underdog now?

[Renomaki]

When I first started playing this game a good year ago, it was during a time where marines struggled constantly to fend of the hoards of xenomorphs, a once incredibly strong force of nature that many used to consider a more casual experience due to just how EASY it used to be to play, back when xeno combat consisted of just double-tapping people with huggers and then ripping their heads off. Then, when hugger combat was heavily nerfed to the point of it being a massive, risky hassle, said xenos were STILL a force to be reckoned with, and marines had it even HARDER THAN EVER... When marines got a win back in the day, hoo boy, was it an event to get excited about, because of how difficult it was to achieve such a victory.

The good ol' days were a time where marines were the underdogs, and the xenos were the ultimate challenge to overcome, requiring everyone to do their part and avoid making as few stupid mistakes as possible, because it doesn't take a lot to completely ruin one's chances of success, let alone survival.

But then... Something changed. Suddenly, marine wins are more and more common, while xeno gameplay has suddenly became a much more stressful, intense experience that requires said xenos to push themselves to their limits in order to survive a much stronger foe that utilizes artillery light and heavy and armor support. Winning as a xeno is... HARD now. I feel it is the tank update, but I'm not sure...

Whatever the case, the tables these days appear to have turned, and now it seems that a xeno victory, once mundane and common, has become far more exciting due to the odds they must overcome to achieve it, how everyone has to do their part and not fuck up, and let alone the fact that their enemy has far better tech then they ever would have. Meanwhile, while winning as a marine can still be satisfying (provided it wasn't a complete stomp), they don't have that same magic to them that they once had. For instance, I won two rounds as a CO lately, and both times I couldn't help but feel that it wasn't because of good tactics and teamwork, but rather because I just had a general advantage overall against a less deadly threat. Maybe it is just me, but still...

Are marines still the underdogs these days, or are the xenos suddenly the faction one quietly cheers on in their efforts to survive and conquer? I don't play as much as I used to, but I have been noticing a lot of marine wins these days, sometimes one after the other within hours of time. Is it an issue with balance? Or maybe it is just a matter of timing on my part? I've no idea, but it really does feel like the real thrills and challenges have shifted to the other side now.

[NoahKirchner]

me i am the underdog

[BluntForce420]

me too

[Mikotoba]

Deadchat

[Sleepy Retard]

I think the problem is there is a lot less good xenos playing at one time. A single good marine can kill one or two of the usual xeno mains. they just get attrition'd by better players.

even more so on low pop. you'll see like 15 goodish marine mains and then like 1 good xeno main. its mostly a wrap for xenos

[Butlerblock]

Stupid updates lead to less xeno mains which leads to lower xeno win rates.

[CABAL]

Don't you see it?:

Playing xeno was easy = Players who played to win, played them = They were not learning anything since every bullshit strategy was valid and xenos had a lot of "get out of the jail" free cards like Queen's charge = Nerfs for bullshit strategies = Xeno with no real skills getting reckt by marines who had to learn to fight to survive = Now.

Need another example? "Boom" on Warrior when this caste was introduced. Bullshit leap/grab mechanic that was easy to use with only one counter which was shotgun filled with slug. Suddently more than 50% of the hive wanted to play as warrior.

Do you really want to buff xenos not becouse xenos in "statistics" (HP, armor, tackle rate, speed etc) are weaker than 3x as large marine forces, but becouse those who play them are not robust?

How this will work:
Xenos balanced, they require skill to play and win = complains of XenoMains who miss bullshit wins = Buff for xenos becouse nobody wants to play them = Xenos OP = More players play them = Marines are fucked = Less players wants to play Marines = Nerf for xenos/buff for marines = Xenos again balanced.

It will be a cycle like in Mass Effect trilogy.

And I found it funny for XenoMains to tell marines: "I like my victories being hard earned"

[Solarmare]

CLF always are
When's the last time you've ever seen them do anything.

[Herac]

Pizza.

But yeah I can't take xenos vary seriously right now.

[Aracino]

Xenos are in a sorry state atm. Devs are buffing marines constantly, any new xenobuff comes with an annoying anti-qol nerf or just a general xeno nerf. Xenos are trapped in 2016 while marines constantly gain new and shiny toys to use vs this threat that just lacks tools to deal with a lot of their new stuff. Shotguns as well, killing a xeno is easier than ever if you know what you're doing. A xeno makes one mistake and they die. Marines can make multiple ones and then just one shot the xeno attacking them if the xeno slightly messes up. Shotguns highly contribute to this.

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

The server seems to be more fast paced now than it was a year or two ago.

Theres alot of reasons why marines may be winning more(not even sure thats true, been more 50/50 to me).

Don't you see it?:

Playing xeno was easy = Players who played to win, played them = They were not learning anything since every bullshit strategy was valid and xenos had a lot of "get out of the jail" free cards like Queen's charge = Nerfs for bullshit strategies = Xeno with no real skills getting reckt by marines who had to learn to fight to survive = Now.

Ultimately i agree with CABAL on his points and have a similar view about it.

Maybe xenoes could use with slightly more HP or something, and maybe some new abilities and such that dont revolve about stun(boring).Map changes etc, im sure they got heaps of shit lined up ready to implement.Atleast you would think thats the case, maybe they dont.

[Build_R_]

The new drone T3 caste is guaranteed to bring balance to the force of CM.

The xenos are at a disadvantage now though, but a lot of the losses I see are highly attributed to some idiot queens that get themselves killed and waste what could have been some strong T2s/T3s.

[CABAL]

Xenos are in a sorry state atm. Devs are buffing marines constantly, any new xenobuff comes with an annoying anti-qol nerf or just a general xeno nerf. Xenos are trapped in 2016 while marines constantly gain new and shiny toys to use vs this threat that just lacks tools to deal with a lot of their new stuff. Shotguns as well, killing a xeno is easier than ever if you know what you're doing. A xeno makes one mistake and they die. Marines can make multiple ones and then just one shot the xeno attacking them if the xeno slightly messes up. Shotguns highly contribute to this.

I knew it. Wield delay on shotgun was a secret buff for marines! Since Devs buff us constantly.

A xeno makes one mistake and they die? Good thing that marines regenerate health sitting on that meme dip, whatever it is called and what is else good that they can't lose limb, or broke a bone. Unlike xenos, who are fragile as a house of cards.

When xeno makes one mistake and die, besides charging into bunch of marines when it's not a Queen? Xeno can withstand multiple shoots, can run full speed no matter how hurt it is, they can be damaged to crit and just regenerate their health. They cannot be injured, only harmed, while two - three slashes will break a bone, or even cut off said limb. Xenos don't have any artificial delays, but they do have anti-bodyblock "systems". Xenos are stronger, faster and... Just better than single marine.
It must be very dumb xeno who made very dumb mistake to just die from it. Yet single slash from even runner can decapitate you, well placed boiler cloud can husk you and alien pounce and just kill. Everything takes only one mistake.

[solidfury7]

I personally switched to Xeno because I haven't found marine engagements that thrilling in a while.

I miss the days marines got slaughtered and a win had to be earnt. I miss when it felt far more of a action horror rather than just an action game.

Personally, as much as I love the design and the mechanics of the tank objectively, I think it's been a step in the wrong direction, it's completely altered the gameplay mechanics in a way which is not very fun for either side.

I've personally found the age old arguments about xenos being overpowered just doesn't apply now. The xenos have been nerfed to the point that drones are seen as the best combat caste right now. That's an issue for all of us.

[Aracino]

I personally switched to Xeno because I haven't found marine engagements that thrilling in a while.

I miss the days marines got slaughtered and a win had to be earnt. I miss when it felt far more of a action horror rather than just an action game.

Personally, as much as I love the design and the mechanics of the tank objectively, I think it's been a step in the wrong direction, it's completely altered the gameplay mechanics in a way which is not very fun for either side.

I've personally found the age old arguments about xenos being overpowered just doesn't apply now. The xenos have been nerfed to the point that drones are seen as the best combat caste right now. That's an issue for all of us.

I'm with you on the tank. The tank I feel just cheapens the fear of xenos, given you have a literal tank that can one shot them and cover entire areas in massive flames in such a short time.

[CABAL]

Check the current round on Prison station and say that Xenos are underpowered. I dare you.

I personally switched to Xeno because I haven't found marine engagements that thrilling in a while.

I miss the days marines got slaughtered and a win had to be earnt. I miss when it felt far more of a action horror rather than just an action game.

Personally, as much as I love the design and the mechanics of the tank objectively, I think it's been a step in the wrong direction, it's completely altered the gameplay mechanics in a way which is not very fun for either side.

I've personally found the age old arguments about xenos being overpowered just doesn't apply now. The xenos have been nerfed to the point that drones are seen as the best combat caste right now. That's an issue for all of us.

Balance shifted to 50-50 so you changed factions becouse other faction was winning so easy? That's... Dumb.

[Aracino]

You're not suppose to talk about the current round.

[CABAL]

You're not suppose to talk about the current round.

I just said to check this round, so you can observe. Check the round tomorrow on the ICE and also say that "xenos are underpowered". Meta in the future? *Chronosphere shines.

[Butlerblock]

Cabal stop being dumb, thanks

[DefinitelyAlone0309]

While I can't say that "xeno is sooooooo weak", they are considerably weaker, with some crazy anti QoL updates and the tackle nerf. This troubles me somewhat, because while I hate having unfun mechanic to deal with (see my opinion on all the wield+holster+click delay on marine's weapons), I actually like that I can't just face roll my way through without having to be careful with my steps.

Tank will need some fixing though. It's not a good design to have an off-screen one hit gib, which is also quite cheap to resupply since you don't have to worry about paying for the parts now. I've always loved OD tank more, before that got nerfed to the ground, since at least you can deal with it. I heard that right now, Minigun build for tank is pretty strong too, but it doesn't have the glaring oof that is off-screen LTB gib.

Though, there's one thing that I would love to be improved, and that is the terrible xeno upgrade/mature system. Having gotten used to MercDonald's zurgs, waiting til Mature is now becoming even more and more annoying. If xeno have some of their overbearing power at Elite+Ancient shifted down to Young+Mature, they won't have so much problem with marine's rush as they can deal with that if they have the skill to pull it off

[solidfury7]

Check the current round on Prison station and say that Xenos are underpowered. I dare you.



Balance shifted to 50-50 so you changed factions becouse other faction was winning so easy? That's... Dumb.

"Check this anecdotal example I'm giving out, this one time...."

No, your anecdote is awful and it has very little value on the grander scheme of balance.

I changed faction at first to examine a lot of the complaints from the Xenos, after all, it's easier to understand the other side when you wear their shoes.

Then I realised I was finding it more challenging as a Xeno than a marine. And that is what I enjoy with Colonial Marines, I like to earn my wins, not be given it on a platter.

It may be worth working on your reading comprehension before throwing around the word dumb.

[CABAL]

"Check this anecdotal example I'm giving out, this one time...."

No, your anecdote is awful and it has very little value on the grander scheme of balance.

I changed faction at first to examine a lot of the complaints from the Xenos, after all, it's easier to understand the other side when you wear their shoes.

Then I realised I was finding it more challenging as a Xeno than a marine. And that is what I enjoy with Colonial Marines, I like to earn my wins, not be given it on a platter.

It may be worth working on your reading comprehension before throwing around the word dumb.

By "Other" faction i meant "marines" and by "changed factions" I meant changed "main" of factions. "It may be worth working on your reading comprehension before throwing around the word dumb."

"Anecdote" was just an example that everyone who read it fast could witness. Robust spitter robusted few marines at once in CQC. He was able to do it becouse of xeno adventage and his own skills.

[solidfury7]

Cabal stop being dumb, thanks

[BillyBoBBizWorth]

I miss the days marines got slaughtered and a win had to be earnt. I miss when it felt far more of a action horror rather than just an action game.

How exactly arent the marines being slaughtered and fighting for their wins right now? Thats exactly what they are doing..

Personally, as much as I love the design and the mechanics of the tank objectively, I think it's been a step in the wrong direction, it's completely altered the gameplay mechanics in a way which is not very fun for either side.

I've personally found the age old arguments about xenos being overpowered just doesn't apply now. The xenos have been nerfed to the point that drones are seen as the best combat caste right now. That's an issue for all of us.

I agree with the tank point though, before the tank marines had to rely on each other more, than the reliance on the tank, but that was always going to happen! Everyone knew that! I even mentioned it here on the forums multiple times that it would happen.

The battles were more interesting before the tank as well, i dont find that the tank majorly makes the round enjoyable one shotting/gibbing xenoes, even if it lands us the win most of the time.

Also, the comment about the combat drones is laughable, marines arent scared of drones, no matter how good you think you are as a combat drone.They are scared of a good carrier, crusher, rav etc though.

[Renomaki]

Believe me, I think the tank is pretty cool, but I believe it would be better suited for HvH gameplay (moreso if BOTH sides had their own tank[s) to fight with) than HvA gameplay.

Yes, the tank isn't unkillable, sure, and if the crew is cocky or dumb, it CAN go down with a little effort, but more often than not it is an incredible burden for the xenos and a bit of a crutch for the marines. I call it a crutch because I feel marines may rely on it a tad more than they should to achieve their victories, often jumping through hoops to ensure the tank is able to get to the frontline and into places a tank really shouldn't be going (such as deep into the caves of LV-624). That tank is such vital weapon for the war effort that the moment it goes down, marine morale completely plummets.

As for the xenomorphs, the moment a tank is at your doorstep is when xeno aggression starts to drop and they start to cower out of sight for fear of getting instantly blown up. Shit like that makes you realize why Mortars/airstrikes/Obs make noises and all that before they hit the ground, because being suddenly blown up without a chance to escape SUCKS. Even if you couldn't avoid it, at least you knew what killed you. Not so with the tank, which can suddenly blow you away without so much as a blink, resulting in much frustration in more ways than one.

Plus it is so restrictive and annoying in other ways as well, such as how engineers MUST make EVERYTHING tank-friendly, meaning old creative builds are no longer viable due to the tank needing to pass through, cargo has less points to work with because the tank's ammo comes first over all else (and before the slight tank update, cargo had to order EVERYTHING for the tank, meaning they were 200+ points in the hole every round), and the fact that its fat-ass tends to block the way a lot, it can make getting around on maps like Prison a pain in the butt (why even use a tank on a space station? Wouldn't mechs make more sense?).

As a marine player, I would rather go back to the day where infantry combat was the main way to go and where you had to rely on coordination and tactics (as well as utilizing your squad's specialist and smartgunners properly) if you wanted to beat back the swarm. As a xeno player, however, I want to be able to roam more freely on the field without having to worry about some off-screen tank blowing me to gibs, let alone if I happened to be a T3 or an maxed level T1. I'd rather my death be due to my foolishness, not something that can just happen without warning.