Commander Heinz 'Wulfe' Mueller

[tinfoiltophat]

Your Byond Key: Tinfoiltophat

Your Character Name: Ashley Clark

Accused Byond Key(if known): Bancrose

Character Name: Heinz 'Wulfe' Mueller

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results): ~10:30 Central

What rule(s) were broken: Rule 2, Roleplay

Description of the incident:While in deadchat, the map Ice came up somehow, I'm not sure. I only joined late in the conversation, and saw Bancrose talking about how if he was the CO on Ice, he would deliberately try to end the round as quickly as possible so that marines could play a better map. I think this is behavior that's extremely unbecoming of someone who is both a Mentor and CO whitelisted, and clearly puts their idea of fun before everybody else's. Per rule 2, "Your character's actions, feelings, and knowledge n-game should be based solely on the character's experiences and not your own as the player." Deliberately losing a round on any map just because you personally don't like the round would be a pretty clear violation of that, and borderline griefing for the people who actually enjoy playing on that map.(Especially given that the map is chosen by players voting.)

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
DEAD: Mentor(Bancrose) says, "Okay let me put it plain for you chief, I aint wanna play Ice Colony, and niether does anyone else."
DEAD: Mentor(Bancrose) says, "So I'm going to order you all to LZ2 so we can go play Big Red or something more tasteful."
DEAD: Mentor(Bancrose) says, "Yeah well retards, better pray I dont get CO during your Ice round"
DEAD: Mentor(Bancrose) says, "Cause we going all LZ2."

OOC: Tinfoiltophat: bancrose
OOC: Tinfoiltophat: are you memeing
OOC: Bancrose: Not in the slightest.
OOC: Tinfoiltophat: or do you actually throw ice rounds as CO
OOC: Bancrose: I wouldn't say Throw it.
OOC: Bancrose: I just want the round to go by quick.
OOC: Tinfoiltophat: that's pretty garbage
OOC: Bancrose: Yeah. I'm not sorry tho.

How you would punish the accused: Honestly, I would just warn that that's not okay, and give him a note and watch for that kind of behavior in the future. I'm not trying to get his whitelist removed or anything, and I honestly think he's a pretty good commander all around, I just don't like that COs openly and publicly say "I don't like this map, I'm going to end it as quickly as possible so we can play something different."

[Bancrose]

I'm sorry this had bothered you.

But I have 2 things here to reply to this.

1. LZ2 is a Viable Strategy that is capable of winning, You could say its the Commanders fault we lost the round, but it also falls on marines as well.
2. I never explicitly said I was going to throw the game intentionally, Especially as this has been evidenced by all of my previous Ice Colony rounds. I only want rounds to end in a quicker and more timely fashion.

I hope this clears some of your concerns.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Pulling logs for this, will have them posted after my lunch break.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Logs

► Show Spoiler

[22:31:26]ADMIN: Bancrose/(Mature Defender (643)) : Okay let me put it plain for you chief, I aint wanna play Ice Colony, and niether does anyone else.
[22:31:37]ADMIN: Bancrose/(Mature Defender (643)) : So I'm going to order you all to LZ2 so we can go play Big Red or something more tasteful.
[22:31:43]SAY: Ghost/Tinfoiltophat : tice is unironically a good map
[22:31:46]SAY: Ghost/XXXXXX: bancrose a nerd
[22:31:59]ADMIN: Bancrose/(Mature Defender (643)) : Yeah well retards, better pray I dont get CO during your Ice round
[22:32:01]SAY: Ghost/Tinfoiltophat : >throwing rounds on maps you don't like as a commander
[22:32:04]SAY: Ghost/Tinfoiltophat : wew
[22:32:17]ADMIN: Bancrose/(Mature Defender (643)) : Yeah okay
[22:32:19]ADMIN: Bancrose/(Mature Defender (643)) : Do it chief
[22:32:11]SAY: Ghost/XXXXXXXX : im going CO and runing your round
[22:32:29]SAY: Ghost/XXXXXXXX : im an evil whitelisted CO!!11!!11!!1!!
[22:32:19]OOC: Caleb Messani/XXXXXXXX : be a veteran player and play queen just to get xenos killed

As the next set of logs are OOC and everyone could have seen ckeys, I am posting the conversation everyone had:

[22:33:15]OOC: Tinfoiltophat/Tinfoiltophat : bancrose
[22:33:17]OOC: Tinfoiltophat/Tinfoiltophat : are you memeinge
[22:33:20]OOC: Bancrose/Bancrose : No
[22:33:23]OOC: Bancrose/Bancrose : Not in the slightest.
[22:33:25]OOC: Tinfoiltophat/Tinfoiltophat : or do you actually throw ice rounds as CO
[22:33:31]OOC: Gabopwn/Gabopwn : im the evil whitelisted CO!!1111!!111!!! im gonna ruin ur round!!111!!!
[22:33:35]OOC: Bancrose/Bancrose : I wouldn't say Throw it.
[22:33:41]OOC: Bancrose/Bancrose : I just want the round to go by quick.
[22:33:48]OOC: Tinfoiltophat/Tinfoiltophat : that's pretty garbage
[22:33:55]OOC: Bancrose/Bancrose : Yeah. I'm not sorry tho.
[22:33:56]OOC: KnightofDark001/KnightofDark001 : You're either trying to win, or you throw it, and lose.
[22:34:04]OOC: Tinfoiltophat/Tinfoiltophat : just because you don't like a map doesn't mean ruin the round for the people who do
[22:34:09]OOC: Tinfoiltophat/Tinfoiltophat :
[22:34:15]OOC: Gabopwn/Gabopwn : IM THE EVIL WHITELISTED CO
[22:34:18]OOC: NicoDeimos/NicoDeimos : Throwing rounds regardless of the map should be bannable. That's basically soft-griefing basically everyone who actually likes the map
[22:34:22]OOC: Gabopwn/Gabopwn : IM GOIG TO GRIEF YOUUU!!!1111!!!111
[22:35:08]OOC: Tinfoiltophat/Tinfoiltophat : yeah, if a mentor and whitelisted CO can admit to deliberately losing on a map they don't like without repercussions, that's pretty wew
[22:35:10]OOC: Rapidboy9/Rapidboy9 : if enough marines throw the map admins iwll make onlyl that map played, they don't care lol
[22:35:16]OOC: Coat McMutton/Coat McMutton : Throwing intentionally as XO is whatever, free game because no whitelist. But whitelisted players should be held to a higher standard. This is the same discussion as talking about MPs going full shitter.
[22:35:21]OOC: Bancrose/Bancrose : Yeah okay Tinfoil man.
[22:35:32]OOC: Bancrose/Bancrose : If there is an issue, There is a "Report a Player: section on the forums.
[22:35:33]OOC: Tinfoiltophat/Tinfoiltophat : i mean that's literally what you're saying


Conversation Bancrose had with other members of staff (This shows that this issue was spoken of behind the scenes, and he explains his rationale)

[22:34:35]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : Yo Frans
[22:34:47]ADMIN: MOD: Frans_Feiffer/(Frans_Feiffer) : And Aye Heinz?
[22:34:48]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : Is there anything unethical about getting everyone to go Lz2 on Ice as the CO
[22:34:52]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : I been doing this for months now
[22:35:12]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : People have caught on now.
[22:35:28]ADMIN: MOD: Frans_Feiffer/(Frans_Feiffer) : We talked about it during a Moderator meeting. The consensus was it would be smart moves to lead your men in and ensure victory.
[22:35:40]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : Yeah, But I have a legit strategy
[22:35:43]ADMIN: MOD: Frans_Feiffer/(Frans_Feiffer) :
[22:35:46]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : Its called 4 squads LZ2
[22:35:48]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : If they lose it
[22:35:50]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : Thats on them
[22:35:56]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : Literally not my fault
[22:36:47]ADMIN: MOD: Frans_Feiffer/(Frans_Feiffer) : I've seen it once or twice. Like I said, I don;t see anything bad about it. It's pretty smart, and it's not you trying to end the round pronto if they can't hold it. Sometimes it really do B like that.
[22:37:42]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : I mean I want all rounds to end in an approtiate time
[22:37:50]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : I am not a villian for that am I?
[22:38:24]ADMIN: MOD: Frans_Feiffer/(Frans_Feiffer) : I'm not gonna harp on you about it. I've done it before and it went rather successful. Ended about an hour and a half later too.
[22:38:44]ADMIN: MOD: Frans_Feiffer/(Frans_Feiffer) : those dudes were pretty salt in general against COs.
[22:38:54]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : Let em salt. I can't care.
[22:38:43]ADMIN: MOD: TheMaskedMan2/(Young Drone (925)) : harp on aboot what
[22:39:21]ADMIN: MOD: TheMaskedMan2/(Young Drone (925)) : Oh you mean throwing the round on purpose by going lz2 cause you hate ice
[22:39:36]ADMIN: MOD: Frans_Feiffer/(Frans_Feiffer) : Bancrose got called out for "Throwing rounds" mostly because people thought I was throwing last round by RPing.
[22:39:42]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : Yeah.
[22:39:52]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : Its a bit toxic but I mean yeah.
[22:39:56]ADMIN: MOD: Frans_Feiffer/(Frans_Feiffer) : And It was ruled it's a sound tactic my guy. It's not throwing a round.
[22:39:56]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : Essentially thats the idea of it.
[22:40:08]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : Yeah. Just don't vote ice and this will not happen.
[22:40:12]ADMIN: MOD: TheMaskedMan2/(Young Drone (925)) : And to be blunt I think its completely unethical
[22:40:16]ADMIN: MOD: TheMaskedMan2/(Young Drone (925)) : okay thats stupid
[22:40:23]ADMIN: MOD: TheMaskedMan2/(Young Drone (925)) : clearly some people voted ice and wanted to play it
[22:40:28]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : Its Xeno players
[22:40:32]ADMIN: MOD: TheMaskedMan2/(Young Drone (925)) : you cant just get angry and go "if you make me play ice im gonna throw the round"
[22:40:36]ADMIN: MOD: ElDefaultio/(ElDefaultio) : are you complaining about ice is a shitty map and u hate people who make it playable
[22:40:44]ADMIN: MOD: ElDefaultio/(ElDefaultio) : i vote ice to play xeno
[22:40:53]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : I only play Ice as a xeno and thats it.
[22:40:58]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : Its never been fun as a marine once.
[22:41:04]ADMIN: MOD: ElDefaultio/(ElDefaultio) : ice sucks, im not gonna wait FIVE HOURS to play a good map
[22:41:05]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : Unless you do something retarded and memey
[22:41:20]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : Especially since how xenos been playing it lately is so scummy that I have had enough of it.
[22:41:33]ADMIN: MOD: SovietKitty/(SovietKitty) : Play Ice LZ 1 once, you've played it 100
[22:41:43]ADMIN: MOD: TheMaskedMan2/(Young Drone (925)) : I think it's shitty to go CO just to throw the round, even if you hate the map.
[22:41:48]ADMIN: MOD: SovietKitty/(SovietKitty) : Benos either ambush everyone at engineering, or any other hole.
[22:41:49]ADMIN: MOD: ElDefaultio/(ElDefaultio) : tell me, why do you think five hours of horrible dogshit hell is better than "OH NO MARINES LOST IN ONE HOUR"
[22:41:51]ADMIN: MOD: SovietKitty/(SovietKitty) : one squad dies
[22:41:53]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : Its not even throwing the round
[22:42:02]ADMIN: MOD: ElDefaultio/(ElDefaultio) : marines either win or lose underground
[22:42:04]ADMIN: MOD: SovietKitty/(SovietKitty) : they slowly push LZ1 in because marines cant *win* a war
[22:42:06]ADMIN: MOD: ElDefaultio/(ElDefaultio) : it aint just throwing chief
[22:42:09]ADMIN: MOD: ZDashe/(Ray 'Zero' Robinson) : LZ2 Ice would be more interesting tbh
[22:42:14]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : Throwing would mean that I am doing it just so we lose, I'm doing it so the round ends faster.
[22:42:18]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : See there is a DIFFERENCE Masked
[22:42:26]ADMIN: MOD: Bancrose/(Bancrose) : Because winning is possible on LZ2.
[22:42:50]ADMIN: MOD: SovietKitty/(SovietKitty) : LZ2 feels like a coinflip and im fine with that
[22:43:15]ADMIN: MOD: ElDefaultio/(ElDefaultio) : i dont even understand why u dont like lz2 deployments as a xeno main

Also we've hidden many responses, remember rule 2, unless you were directly involved don't post, thanks.

[Emeraldblood]

Commanders will almost never be punished for using a different strategy than normal, especially one as simple as using LZ2 over LZ1. Saying that LZ2 results in generally faster rounds is just a fact of the map and not even true in every case. Bancrose isn't actively throwing a round just by using LZ2 and as long as he still upholds the role, he's (and all COs) are fine to use whatever LZ they want.

Resolved - Possible miscommunication, no action required.