Staff Report - Mizari

[CCRWasHere]

Your Byond Key:
CCRWasHere

Your Character Name:
Mature Ravager 858

Their Byond Key:
Mizari

Approximate time and date of the incident (Central Us Time for best results):
2:00 AM, October 25th, 2018

Which Staff Protocols were broken:
Ensure that all incidents are adequately investigated before giving a ruling.

Description of the incident:
I was by Mizari for advising the hive that hijacking the Alamo with a full marine platoon still on the colony would mean fighting them on the Almayer and surely dying. The Queen was new, so I took it upon myself to tell them that they would throw the round by hijacking too early (which is exactly what happened).

Mizari contends that , and I fully disagree with this statement.

I believe Xenomorphs (especially Queens) possess enough intelligence to ascertain that the marines come from somewhere off in the sky after they witness dropships fly off and fly back with groups of humans (some being the same people after getting wounded and redeploying after surgery).
Countless times have Alien players and Moderators/Admins using the Queen Mother mention "going off to the tallhost metal hive in the sky", and they have not been warned or have otherwise gotten in trouble for it.

Mizari likely decided to take action against me because I specifically called the marine transport ship by its name - the Almayer - instead of "tallhost metal hive in the sky".
It is stated in the rules that the Xeno hivemind is an English translation of their thoughts so words such as “hydro” or “shuttle” are acceptable. If you wish to argue that using proper nouns is against this rule, then a majority of the Alien playerbase should be noted and warned for using "Alamo" and "Normandy", for every round I play Alien, someone refers to it as such at least once.

Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
See above screenshots and check the round's log.

How you would punish the accused:
Remind Mizari that Xenomorphs have some degree of intelligence when investigating potential rulebreaks from Xenomorphs. I would also like the note removed.

[Mizari]

Ok so where to begin...The queen commanded you all to board the dropship Alamo after which point you stood outside refusing to obey the queens command and stated in hivemind That going to the Almayer would be suicide...You were bwoinked by me that you have no knowledge of where the Marines come from only that they arrived by the dropship Alamo.

You purposely stood out of the dropship disputing going on until the queen sent the Alamo up and at last second you ran on board. You then started to argue the fact about alien knowledge and even started to say aliens have a joint mind with all hives and that they share knowledge of past battles with marines which i clarified that they do not on CM. You were given a warning for Meta'ing the Almayer and what awaited you up there and I stand by said decision.

[CCRWasHere]

The Aliens know about the ship but not what happens after hijack.

My statements during the round was to imply that going the same route an entire platoon of marines have been taking while a great number of them were still on the colony with access to the Normandy would be a bad idea. I suggested eliminating the current marines deployed before going up. I even believe I was not the only one to suggest this. Staff team, check the round's log for any other Aliens advising to clear the colony first before hijacking the Alamo.

They technically don’t know they can hikack it until the queen actually does it.

Aliens mention hijacking the marines' dropships all the time before being informed by their Queen. It happens nearly every round; it happened during the round this report was made by half the hive.

[CCRWasHere]

The queen commanded you all to board the dropship Alamo.

I do not recall this. I do not recall the Queen explicitly stating for her hive to board the Alamo. When she launched, Aliens expressed confusion at the sudden departure. I believe they did this exactly because she made no attempt at informing her hive of her plans; She was new, after all.

(you) stated in hivemind That going to the Almayer would be suicide...

Myself and many others said going up too soon would be bad. Check the log.

You purposely stood out of the dropship disputing going on.

I was attempting to corral more Xenomorphs to go out with me - I was pacing back and forth from the Alamo's door to the colony grounds. I was speaking on hivemind advising the Queen to depart the cockpit and help assist her dying children still underground.
Also to add, the space of time between me attempting to negotiate with my sisters while pacing about to the time the Queen launched the dropship was the span of a minute or so. I did not have the time to come to the conscious conclusion to willingly disobey my Queen as I was also in conversation.

You then started to argue the fact about alien knowledge and even started to say aliens have a joint mind with all hives and that they share knowledge of past battles with marines which i clarified that they do not on CM.

See my argument in the report why I do not believe this to be the case even IF the Xenomorph species does not truly share a hivemind:

I believe Xenomorphs (especially Queens) possess enough intelligence to ascertain that the marines come from somewhere off in the sky after they witness dropships fly off and fly back with groups of humans (some being the same people after getting wounded and redeploying after surgery).
Countless times have Alien players and Moderators/Admins using the Queen Mother mention "going off to the tallhost metal hive in the sky", and they have not been warned or have otherwise gotten in trouble for it.

[420MYK]

I was one of the benos in this round. I was actually the one who started the whole "lets go to LZ1 its empty" stuff. Honestly, even not knowing where we landed (which happened to be right on CiC by the way) If the ENTIRE hive had listened we woulda stood quite a reasonable chance if we actually worked together. 5 or 6 Xenos stayed behind including a ravager (i assume you). that was almost half the hive. and even with the ones that got left behind we still put some work in.

Yea queen was green asf but ultimately aside from being deovid too early and too long she did really well, and the remainder of the hive was reasonably strong. Two MATURE ravs would have destroyed the marines but no some had to know better. End of the day you dont know youll get killed up there, in a xenos mind theyre nothing but a perfect killing machine.

Basically Dont OOC IC concerns.

Edit: You were told by the queen and multiple hive members to get on we were leaving asap.

[CCRWasHere]

I was actually the one who started the whole "lets go to LZ1 its empty" stuff.

Another example that Aliens are somewhat allowed to know the Queen can hijack the Alamo. Alien players do it all the time.

End of the day you dont know youll get killed up there, in a xenos mind theyre nothing but a perfect killing machine.

Alien players regularly espouse defeatism (especially when the hive gets rushed by marines), so this point is incorrect. In the Aliens movie universe, this is the case, but we are humans playing them, so we are given some slack.

You were told by the queen and multiple hive members to get on we were leaving asap.

If this is truly the case, then I simply did not know it. I was too busy attempting to convince other Xenomorphs to assist in the underground. Besides, we are discussing the supposed metaknowledge rulebreak, not me not seeing the Queen's orders to board.

[Mizari]

Irregardless the issue is you don't understand what will happen after you board the dropship, the queen knows how to take it off and try return it to wherever it may come from but you DONT know what exactly awaits you...for all you know it could be another planet etc.

[CCRWasHere]

Irregardless the issue is you don't understand what will happen after you board the dropship, the queen knows how to take it off and try return it to wherever it may come from but you DONT know what exactly awaits you...for all you know it could be another planet etc.

See:

Countless times have Alien players and Moderators/Admins using the Queen Mother mention "going off to the tallhost metal hive in the sky", and they have not been warned or have otherwise gotten in trouble for it.

I put forth the argument that Xenomorphs are intelligent enough to understand that going to the place that's constantly ferrying marines to and from the colony might actually be a place that has more marines. Even if Xenomorphs were so unintelligent to put that two and two together, I believe they could at least understand that the marines on the colony could just take their OTHER dropship back up.

People unironically think Aliens cannot metagame. While this is untrue, the fact that it's a saying that floats around means there's some merit to it. Alien players are allowed some leeway to what they know; Xenomorphs are intelligent. I feel as if I was victimized by a "wrong moderator wrong place" situation with the fact that I was the poor bastard singled out, noted, and heavily warned for something others have done that round, others that have done similarly in the past, and are guaranteed to do in the future.

[CCRWasHere]

You then started to argue the fact about alien knowledge and even started to say aliens have a joint mind with all hives and that they share knowledge of past battles with marines which i clarified that they do not on CM.

Also, if this were the case, why have moderators not noted every single Alien that flees from the first OB or CAS laser? If this statement is true, Xenomorphs have ZERO reason to flee from the first incoming orbital beacon or airstrike. They haven't fought marines before, right? How do they know there's an incoming explosion, and to clear the blast zone?

How do they know about claymores? How do they know to flee from a grenade before seeing one explode? How do they know the RPG specialist can blow Aliens up before it happens? How do they know to aim for the feet against the marine with B18 armor? When they see the scout specialist or sniper specialist, how do they know they should flee further away to avoid their range?

They do not share a hivemind that have fought marines before, so why have Alien players not been noted for these actions? Our Xenomorphs have no knowledge of marines and their equipment before they see it, so how do they know?

If you say that's not metagaming, but assuming:

that Xenomorphs are intelligent enough to understand that going to the place that's constantly ferrying marines to and from the colony might actually be a place that has more marines.

IS, then I fail to see how there's a double standard going on.

[RobBrown4PM]

Posting here to add lore to the conversation surrounding the intelligence of the Queen's.

As explained in Aliens Outbreak, Queen's have the ability to reach out enormous distances and telepathically link up to and manipulate humans thoughts and dreams. In Outbreak, a Queen was able to create anxiety in countless of humans on earth, altering their dreams while hiding what was actually happening.

The Queen's true goal was to exert her dominion over psychologically vulnerable people, and was intelligent enough to use their religion as a means to bring followers in so they could become procreation vessels.

The mass anxiety on Earth was either a by product of the Queen's manipulation, or a direct counter measure to ensure her true motives were hidden.

In Nightmare Asylum, a Queen is able to manipulate General Spears, through essentially long conning him, into bringing a hive back to Earth under the guise of being tamed war animals.

Edit: I can't speak for the heads, obviously, however, if we're still going by lore I think it's within reason to believe that the Queen is able to reach out and sense the giant ball of tall hosts in the sky. Continuing on, I think it's within reason to believe the Queen is able to devise that taking the giant metal bird, that seemingly carries tall hosts to the planet from the giant ball of hosts, will inevitably carry her hive to the hosts.

She may not know that it's a ship, but going by lore I think it's reasonable to believe she knows there's a tall host hive up in the sky.

Disclaimer:

This is speaking as a player on the server and not as a staff

[CCRWasHere]

you DONT know what exactly awaits you...for all you know it could be another planet etc.

[Mizari]

I'm not disputing what a Queen knows and doesn't know...I'm disputing what YOU know as a Ravager BEFORE even the dropship leaves the planet because the queen commands it. You specifically referenced the Almayer and that Marines would be there to kill you all, using OOC knowledge. I've checked and the queen has not expressed any concern to going up and thats evident by launching the dropship so why would you, a ravager somehow have this information?

[CCRWasHere]

I'm not disputing what a Queen knows and doesn't know...I'm disputing what YOU know as a Ravager BEFORE even the dropship leaves the planet because the queen commands it.

See:

Every Alien gets this message when the Queen hijacks the Alamo. in regards to whether or not I'm allowed to assume there's more marines where we're going, see:

I put forth the argument that Xenomorphs are intelligent enough to understand that going to the place that's constantly ferrying marines to and from the colony might actually be a place that has more marines. Even if Xenomorphs were so unintelligent to put that two and two together, I believe they could at least understand that the marines on the colony could just take their OTHER dropship back up.

and

I can't speak for the heads, obviously, however, if we're still going by lore I think it's within reason to believe that the Queen is able to reach out and sense the giant ball of tall hosts in the sky. Continuing on, I think it's within reason to believe the Queen is able to devise that taking the giant metal bird, that seemingly carries tall hosts to the planet from the giant ball of hosts, will inevitably carry her hive to the hosts.

She may not know that it's a ship, but going by lore I think it's reasonable to believe she knows there's a tall host hive up in the sky.

 

You specifically referenced the Almayer.

See:

It is stated in the rules that the Xeno hivemind is an English translation of their thoughts so words such as “hydro” or “shuttle” are acceptable. If you wish to argue that using proper nouns is against this rule, then a majority of the Alien playerbase should be noted and warned for using "Alamo" and "Normandy", for every round I play Alien, someone refers to it as such at least once.

 

I've checked and the queen has not expressed any concern to going up and thats evident by launching the dropship so why would you, a ravager somehow have this information?

I've stated in my report that the Queen was new. She has said so herself at the beginning of the round, and other players can back that up. Incompetence isn't against the rules, but if a Queen does something extremely foolish, such as charge an entire battalion of marines with little support, do you note and warn every Alien that shows even a remote sense of self-preservation and holds back?

As for whether or not I'm even allowed to know there's danger wherever we're going, we can SENSE the enemy in their hive. Aliens SENSE how many marines are in the their specifically mentioned metal hive.

[Mizari]

I'm sorry but only the queen has a rough knowledge of what COULD be up there according to lore. Yes you get the dropship message ONCE she takes off but she hadn't taken off and just told you to get on the dropship. Everyone was on it bar you which was defying the queens will and you started ranting that you'd die etc. This debate has gone on long enough, I stand by the decision that you were rightfully warned but specifically naming the ALMAYER and what awaits you IS still using OOC knowledge...

[CCRWasHere]

I'm sorry but only the queen has a rough knowledge of what COULD be up there according to lore.

See:

As for whether or not I'm even allowed to know there's danger wherever we're going, we can SENSE the enemy in their hive. Aliens SENSE how many marines are in the their specifically mentioned metal hive.

I'm baffled as to how you can believe the hive is not allowed to know they'll face more marines on a metal hive WHEN WE'RE ALL LITERALLY INFORMED EVERY THIRTY MINUTES.

Everyone was on it bar you.

Incorrect. Half the hive was still willingly fighting underground and informing the Queen her decision to order the hive to board the Alamo was not smart. You singled me out for some inexplicable reason, and warned me over something
Alien players have done regularly in the past, have done that round, are still currently doing, and will be doing in the future.

you were defying the queens will and you started ranting that you'd die etc.

See:

If this is truly the case, then I simply did not know it. I was too busy attempting to convince other Xenomorphs to assist in the underground. Besides, we are discussing the supposed metaknowledge rulebreak, not me not seeing the Queen's orders to board.

and

Also to add, the space of time between me attempting to negotiate with my sisters while pacing about to the time the Queen launched the dropship was the span of a minute or so. I did not have the time to come to the conscious conclusion to willingly disobey my Queen as I was also in conversation.

Also, "ranting" is an exaggeration. I said only perhaps three short sentences amounting to "if we go up to the Almayer we'll die". You're twisting what happened to justify your action. This behavior of a senior staff should be unacceptable.

[Imperator_Titan]

I'll get to this in a little while, this hasn't been forgotten about.

[Imperator_Titan]

Okay so, apologies for taking a while to get to this. It's quite reasonable for a xenomorph to know what's up in the sky seeing as how the bioscan informs the xenomorphs about the metal hive in advance. Therefore, I'm going to go ahead and remove the note after having spoken to mizari.

Resolved - Note will be removed. Moderator in question has been spoken to regarding this situation, no further action is necessary.